Trivium!!!

tohostudios wrote:

I bought The Crusade because I'd heard a lot of hype about this band.

First of all, they do sound a lot like Metallica at times. When they do, I really like this band.

But there's just to much yelling for my tastes; too much "nu-metal" leanings.

I don't hate Trivium but I probably won't be buying anything else from them either.

I almost agree with everyting you just said. I don't hear any nu-metal but there is still a tad too much metalcore. I can take these guys in small doses and if they would have cut down The Crusade by 1/4 then it would be a much better album. It's just too much of the same thing (IMO some bands can get away with long albums, but not these guys). It's funny, I was so into these guys after seeing/hearing some videos on MTV2 because the took the monotony (sic) of metalcore and made it interesting. However, after getting two albums from them the novelty has worn off. Though I will give the new one a try to see if they improved on it.

There has never been any metalcore in Trivium.

I've deliberately stayed out of this topic, but now for some reason I feel likedropping my proverbial two cents. I don't mind Trivium - the vocals on Ascendency annoyed me, but there was some good riffery. The Crusade was an improvement, but I never really got in to it all that much either. Still, I don't think they're bad. I think the only thing that gives me a negative view of Trivium is having to hear everyone either complain about or praise them, haha.

I've heard bits from their second and third albums. Songs like 'Pull Harder' are pretty catchy, especially in the chorus, but the vocals in the verses are terrible. The screams are the worst I've ever heard. They were so forced.

The new album seems a massive jump, but the music still doesn't really click with me. It just feels way too forced, like they're trying too hard. I don't know, it didn't grab me well anyway. I don't hate them, but I don't really like them either.

There is one thing about them that really annoys me though. Back in the days of their first two albums, easily half their fanbase, maybe more, were metalcore fans. The band toured with many metalcore bands. The bands even adopted some metalcore elements, such as the hardcoreish screaming and chugging riffs. Then when they were all ready to impress their metal elders with their new "true" album they pose on the front of metalhammer with a big title reading "Fuck Metalcore! We're True Metal!" Why spit on your past, your friends and your fans in such a way? It didn't impress me.

Muloc7253 wrote:

There is one thing about them that really annoys me though. Back in the days of their first two albums, easily half their fanbase, maybe more, were metalcore fans. The band toured with many metalcore bands. The bands even adopted some metalcore elements, such as the hardcoreish screaming and chugging riffs. Then when they were all ready to impress their metal elders with their new "true" album they pose on the front of metalhammer with a big title reading "Fuck Metalcore! We're True Metal!" Why spit on your past, your friends and your fans in such a way? It didn't impress me.

Because Trivium is not metalcore and they never have been. Just because Heafy screamed never made them a metalcore band. There is ZERO hardcore in what they've done. None. Nada. Zilch! The critics and media called them metalcore; thus the music fans bought into it. I hear no metalcore in this band at all. People call Shadows Fall a metalcore, but again, there is no hardcore. If Heafy did death metal vocals, would they be a death metal band?

I realize it's easier to call them metalcore because the screaming was so prominent on the first two albums, but when you get right down to it, Trivium are a metal band.

Eyesore wrote:

Muloc7253 wrote:

There is one thing about them that really annoys me though. Back in the days of their first two albums, easily half their fanbase, maybe more, were metalcore fans. The band toured with many metalcore bands. The bands even adopted some metalcore elements, such as the hardcoreish screaming and chugging riffs. Then when they were all ready to impress their metal elders with their new "true" album they pose on the front of metalhammer with a big title reading "Fuck Metalcore! We're True Metal!" Why spit on your past, your friends and your fans in such a way? It didn't impress me.

Because Trivium is not metalcore and they never have been. Just because Heafy screamed never made them a metalcore band. There is ZERO hardcore in what they've done. None. Nada. Zilch! The critics and media called them metalcore; thus the music fans bought into it. I hear no metalcore in this band at all. People call Shadows Fall a metalcore, but again, there is no hardcore. If Heafy did death metal vocals, would they be a death metal band?

I realize it's easier to call them metalcore because the screaming was so prominent on the first two albums, but when you get right down to it, Trivium are a metal band.

Totally agree with the above. Trivium are a METAL band, always have been. The metalcore tag seems to be added to bands when magazines can't decide what they sound like. Usually when a band has death metal like vocal screams mixed with clean vocals then immediatly the band is deemed metalcore.

[quote="Eyesore"][quote="ultmetal"][quote="Eyesore"]

UltraMagnus007 wrote:

I can't quite put my finger on it because so many vasty different bands aI personally think they were just signed way too soon and we're hearing a band grow when we shouldn't be.

This is the problem as I see it with this and plenty of other 'great white hopes' in the music industry. Trivium look like they still spend more time trying to decide what tshirt to wear for photo shoots than trying to write songs that can back up the amount of press time they get.

Metalheads crave a certain amount of authenticity with their bands, and bands like Trivium will never be taken seriously until they can write their own Ride the Lightning. Labels can pump as much air into bands like this as they want, but at the end of the day thats all it is.

This is the problem as I see it with this and plenty of other 'great white hopes' in the music industry. Trivium look like they still spend more time trying to decide what tshirt to wear for photo shoots than trying to write songs that can back up the amount of press time they get.

Metalheads crave a certain amount of authenticity with their bands, and bands like Trivium will never be taken seriously until they can write their own Ride the Lightning. Labels can pump as much air into bands like this as they want, but at the end of the day thats all it is.[/quote]


Well I think thats a bit harsh to say they will not be taken seriously until they write their own ride the lightning, There are plenty of bands around who seem to be accepted but have never wrote an album as good as ride the lightning. As for the authenticity of the band, if you don't like their music then fine, each to their own but how does make them any less authentic.

A lot of people have bought their albums so maybe all of their press and publicity is justified. To say metalheads crave more authenticity from bands is to mock anyone who has bought their albums as not a true metal head.

I still stand by the opinion that if The Crusade was Trivium first album and it was released by Metal Blade or SPV or something, the band would get far more respect. There's a lot of psychology involved in likes and dislikes that comes from beyond whatever the subject matter may be.

Quote :

I still stand by the opinion that if The Crusade was Trivium first album and it was released by Metal Blade or SPV or something, the band would get far more respect. There's a lot of psychology involved in likes and dislikes that comes from beyond whatever the subject matter may be.

Maybe but screaming is screaming and I don't like it regardless what label is put on it.

Same for growling.

tohostudios wrote:

Quote :

I still stand by the opinion that if The Crusade was Trivium first album and it was released by Metal Blade or SPV or something, the band would get far more respect. There's a lot of psychology involved in likes and dislikes that comes from beyond whatever the subject matter may be.

Maybe but screaming is screaming and I don't like it regardless what label is put on it.

Same for growling.

He doesn't scream on The Crusade, though. There are a couple spots, like "To The Rats," where there is some screaming, but it's minimal.

Not minimal enough for me. And unlike in Epica, there's nothing offsetting it.

I wish this band would go the same route as Avenged Sevenfold and ditch the screaming entirely.

Toho, got to ask, have you listened to the whole of The Crusade? I wasn't a fan of their screaming either, and there's so little of it on that album that it gives reason enough not to write them off.

That's basically the only screaming on the album. Just a few words overall.

Oh, and I mentioned this in the other thread (search function, people!), but the bass player for Trivium is awesome! Here's an EPK from his previous band, Metal Militia:



He was pretty young here.

Few bands seem to cause such division. It's like people are torn as to what to do with them.

As I said previously I like Trivium, just not as much as I did when I first got into them. For me The Crusade is just too long to hold my attention for an entire listen. These guys are still very talented and a cut above most of the bands out there with mainstream attention but there is just something missing to hold me for long. I will definatly get the new one when it comes out to see if that changes any. I also agree that the screaming on The Cursade is barely there and these guys (metalcore or not) have definatly improved over the course of their young career.

I like trivium the crusade is a pretty good album cuz matt heafy actually sings, I think a good metal band next metallica maybe not , but still good. ( I didnt like their cover of master of puppets matt tries too hard sound like James, he should have use his voice might have been better)

Oh my word, the lyrics to 'To The Rats' are hilarious. Decent music, but those lyrics.

BREAK EVERY BONE IN YOUR FACE

Alright, I'm gonna dig this one out of the vault and give it another listen. As I remember it, I heard a lot more screaming than you guys are claiming. Maybe I'm confusing them with someone else.

Smindas wrote:

Oh my word, the lyrics to 'To The Rats' are hilarious. Decent music, but those lyrics.

BREAK EVERY BONE IN YOUR FACE

Yes, their lyrics are pretty stupid. But I hold that against no band, because tons of bands write stupid lyrics. I've taught myself to ignore them. Haha.

OK, I started listening to this again and you guys are right, there isn't much screaming.

It's shouting! There's a difference IMO. Screaming is a bunch of incomprehensible noises while shouting is yelling the lyrics. I can understand the lyrics but it's still not singing in the verses; it's shouting.

It's the same complaint I have with the last Sebastian Bach release. When he sings, I like it but most of the time it's just a bunch of shouting.

Eyesore wrote:

Smindas wrote:

Oh my word, the lyrics to 'To The Rats' are hilarious. Decent music, but those lyrics.

BREAK EVERY BONE IN YOUR FACE

Yes, their lyrics are pretty stupid. But I hold that against no band, because tons of bands write stupid lyrics. I've taught myself to ignore them. Haha.

Haha, yeah, insipid lyrics happen all the time in metal, especially thrashier stuff. Just look at... most of Annihilator's discography, actually. I just found the juxtaposing of a melodic chorus with those words hilarious.


...


SIXES. AND SEVENS. Silly Jeff Waters.

tohostudios wrote:

OK, I started listening to this again and you guys are right, there isn't much screaming.

It's shouting! There's a difference IMO. Screaming is a bunch of incomprehensible noises while shouting is yelling the lyrics. I can understand the lyrics but it's still not singing in the verses; it's shouting.

It's the same complaint I have with the last Sebastian Bach release. When he sings, I like it but most of the time it's just a bunch of shouting.

I don't see how what Heafy is doing on The Crusade is any different than what Metallica does, or Testament, or any number of other metal bands. To me it's just singing aggressively, which is part of metal. I'm not so sure I'd call that shouting, but I wouldn't argue it. I'd simply argue that if Heafy is shouting, then countless classic and loveable metal bands have done—and still do—the very same thing.

That makes sense because I'm not a big Metallica fan either. I'm not a thrash fan period generally speaking.

Here's the thing, I want the singer to carry a tune. Unless the genre is punk, melody is first and foremost in my music and simply shouting words during the verse only to go to a melodic chorus doesn't cut it for me.

I like aggressive singers (I even like the guy in Dark At Dawn) but they have to carry a tune and I just don't hear that in the verses here. It's a shame too because many of the choruses are outstanding.