R.I.P. Billy Graham

My congressman, Keith Ellison, was sworn in with his hand on the Quran [Thomas Jefferson's copy, actually] - it made A LOT of people upset. Just so no one thinks the Bible is exclusive for that ceremony.

As far as Billy G goes? I despise organized religion. And I still have a great deal of respect for that guy. He was genuine and sincere.

RIP

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

As far as Billy G goes?  I despise organized religion.  And I still have a great deal of respect for that guy.  He was genuine and sincere.  

Yeah, and his guitar playing ain't too shabby either.  

Troublezone wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

As far as Billy G goes?  I despise organized religion.  And I still have a great deal of respect for that guy.  He was genuine and sincere.  

Yeah, and his guitar playing ain't too shabby either.  

Nice! Doubt this Billy G ever visited La Grange though.... maybe.... But I doubt it.

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

As far as Billy G goes?  I despise organized religion.  And I still have a great deal of respect for that guy.  He was genuine and sincere.  

Yeah, and his guitar playing ain't too shabby either.  

Nice!  Doubt this Billy G ever visited La Grange though.... maybe.... But I doubt it.

Naw, I think he's gone to the "pearly gates", and I doubt he'll "double back".  

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

As far as Billy G goes?  I despise organized religion.  And I still have a great deal of respect for that guy.  He was genuine and sincere.  

That's kind of where I am with him too. I don't believe what he believes but I respect his conviction and his consistency (same goes for David Wilkerson)

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

A televangelist (businessman) racketeer? Who cares?

He didn't ask for money. And as far as caring...  millions do. Probably not in Denmark.

Or Norway...

I'm willing to bet there's still a lot of Lutherans in Nordic countries, they just don't advertise it.

Of course thre are some left, and they do advertise it don`t worry about hat

The Nordic countries are among the most secular societies in the world. We have free speach, freedom to believe and practise any religion you feel like.
Be patient you will get there too in a generation or two.

What are you talking about? I live in California. We are probably the most diverse place on earth! And the United States pretty much invented modern democracy! But I am my own person! I don't just "fall in" with what the government tells me or whatever the current trends are in secular society.

My english is not good enough to have these discussions

I am well aware of your country`s proud tradition as a democracy, never ment to say anything else.
We will never agree on the subject of religion and that`s fine. I am glad that we both live in countries where we can be our own men and decide for oursekves what we choose to believe, and not belieieve...

I think religion is a waste of time, and to me it is sad that so many seems to still rely on it. But the only way to fight it is through knowledge, education, information.. Banning it or trying to force people into anything would be a crime and a huge mistake.

Of course Religion shouldn't be banned - people's reliance on it has to do with culture and upbringing - what is frustrating, though, is how religion is so obviously wrong, flawed, immoral (makes morally decent people do wicked things) and no more than a pervasive cultural superstition. The term "canonical gospels" is simply laughable - the bible is full of contradictions, fabrications and gravely immoral concepts (vicarious redemption and scapegoating as core principles) - I simply do not see the need for it, or its allure.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Of course Religion shouldn't be banned - people's reliance on it has to do with culture and upbringing - what is frustrating, though, is how religion is so obviously wrong, flawed, immoral (makes morally decent people do wicked things) and no more than a pervasive cultural superstition. The term "canonical gospels" is simply laughable - the bible is full of contradictions, fabrications and gravely immoral concepts (vicarious redemption and scapegoating as core principles) - I simply do not see the need for it, or its allure.

Give examples of these "immoral things" you speak of? (without referring to the crusades).

On what standards do you compare your morals against anyway? The bible says not to kill or steal, and to love your neighbor... Tell me what your morals are?

Just know one thing... Many have come claiming to be Christian, but obviously were not. They just used it for political purposes or fear over people (which Christ did not do). He came to heal and save people. Maybe you just don't want to believe the existence of a soul. Also if you believe it forces you to acknowledge sin and take accountability for your life.

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

A televangelist (businessman) racketeer? Who cares?

He didn't ask for money. And as far as caring...  millions do. Probably not in Denmark.

Or Norway...

I'm willing to bet there's still a lot of Lutherans in Nordic countries, they just don't advertise it.

Of course thre are some left, and they do advertise it don`t worry about hat

The Nordic countries are among the most secular societies in the world. We have free speach, freedom to believe and practise any religion you feel like.
Be patient you will get there too in a generation or two.

What are you talking about? I live in California. We are probably the most diverse place on earth! And the United States pretty much invented modern democracy! But I am my own person! I don't just "fall in" with what the government tells me or whatever the current trends are in secular society.

My english is not good enough to have these discussions

I am well aware of your country`s proud tradition as a democracy, never ment to say anything else.
We will never agree on the subject of religion and that`s fine. I am glad that we both live in countries where we can be our own men and decide for oursekves what we choose to believe, and not belieieve...

Yes, we can just agree to disagree! I cannot stop believing what I believe. Call me a fool, I don't care.

At least we both like metal!

I believe in a higher power that I call God. But one dude at the CMR many years ago turned me off of organized religion forever. Now, I still believe in God's Law [the Ten Commandments] and Jesus' Law [Love your neighbor], as well as the teachings of the other major/minor prophets [when they teach love], but I can, and will, live without all of the hate, divisiveness, I'm-right-you're-wrong bullshit of the last 2000 years.

With that being said - I never saw Billy Graham as anything but a decent human. Preacherman777 on the other hand.....

I love how someone thinks that just because of someone I admire has faith, that negates everything I believe - It's wrong, it just is - it takes time, but it will fullfill itself - there are stupid people in the world

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

I believe in a higher power that I call God.  But one dude at the CMR many years ago turned me off of organized religion forever.  Now, I still believe in God's Law [the Ten Commandments] and Jesus' Law [Love your neighbor], as well as the teachings of the other major/minor prophets [when they teach love], but I can, and will, live without all of the hate, divisiveness, I'm-right-you're-wrong bullshit of the last 2000 years.

With that being said - I never saw Billy Graham as anything but a decent human.  Preacherman777 on the other hand.....

I basically agree with you.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

I love how someone thinks that just because of someone I admire has faith, that negates everything I believe - It's wrong, it just is - it takes time, but it will fullfill itself - there are stupid people in the world

Yeah, there certainly is...
Especially those who crash a thread to make a rude unnecessary comment about a guy that died. And then go on and speak of those with faith in a condescending way. That's why I gotta laugh when secular people say "live and let live".

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

A televangelist (businessman) racketeer? Who cares?

He didn't ask for money. And as far as caring...  millions do. Probably not in Denmark.

Or Norway...

I'm willing to bet there's still a lot of Lutherans in Nordic countries, they just don't advertise it.

Of course thre are some left, and they do advertise it don`t worry about hat

The Nordic countries are among the most secular societies in the world. We have free speach, freedom to believe and practise any religion you feel like.
Be patient you will get there too in a generation or two.

What are you talking about? I live in California. We are probably the most diverse place on earth! And the United States pretty much invented modern democracy! But I am my own person! I don't just "fall in" with what the government tells me or whatever the current trends are in secular society.

My english is not good enough to have these discussions

I am well aware of your country`s proud tradition as a democracy, never ment to say anything else.
We will never agree on the subject of religion and that`s fine. I am glad that we both live in countries where we can be our own men and decide for oursekves what we choose to believe, and not belieieve...

Yes, we can just agree to disagree! I cannot stop believing what I believe. Call me a fool, I don't care.

At least we both like metal!

That`s cool, Metal unites across borders and religions

Will never call you a fool for what you believe. There are millions of believers that are smarter than me. It`s far more complicated, and that`s part of my fascination for the subject....

Believer since 1997 here: today's religion is damn-near criminal.

Postmodern, westernized religion has very little to do with the many complex facets of scripture. We are a civilization of comforts so far removed from the psychology and politics of those times that the church has made a mockery of the Gospel truth, especially within moral analogs. My relationship with Christ and social perceptions changed dramatically once I removed myself from fundamental Bible-thumping many years ago. It opened my eyes to the naked character of organized religion: a social construct, nothing more, barely parallel to the precepts set forth in scripture, and founded only on man's lust for violence [rated R ].

In other words, the God I know is nowhere near the God that the contemporary church projects--and even today they long to have even higher moral standards than God himself.

Billy Graham was one of the few who had a more rational offering of the Bible's core principle: Come to Jesus, with the most level-headed and exciting stage presence for his delivery. I saw him live a few times and that was really all he had to say, regardless of the sociopolitical environment. And that's really the only message that needs to be shared. And to that I raise my glass and congratulate Mr. Graham for a job well done.

corplhicks wrote:

Believer since 1997 here: today's religion is damn-near criminal.

Postmodern, westernized religion has very little to do with the many complex facets of scripture. We are a civilization of comforts so far removed from the psychology and politics of those times that the church has made a mockery of the Gospel truth, especially within moral analogs. My relationship with Christ and social perceptions changed dramatically once I removed myself from fundamental Bible-thumping many years ago. It opened my eyes to the naked character of organized religion: a social construct, nothing more, barely parallel to the precepts set forth in scripture, and founded only on man's lust for violence [rated R ].

In other words, the God I know is nowhere near the God that the contemporary church projects--and even today they long to have even higher moral standards than God himself.

Billy Graham was one of the few who had a more rational offering of the Bible's core principle: Come to Jesus, with the most level-headed and exciting stage presence for his delivery. I saw him live a few times and that was really all he had to say, regardless of the sociopolitical environment. And that's really the only message that needs to be shared. And to that I raise my glass and congratulate Mr. Graham for a job well done.

This is a very good post. Even if you replace Christianity in that example with any other organized religion. At some level, it all becomes a social construct, with someone trying to gain or benefit from trying to get other people to change their non-religious behaviour. Things that have nothing to do with the concept of God or belief.

Every man that interprets something they believe is holy, makes it less holy by doing so.

Lari wrote:

Every man that interprets something they believe is holy, makes it less holy by doing so.

Extremely wise words there.

I'm a Christian in the most basic way (the core belief). I'm not limited or caught up in the frivolous details of denominations. As long as the core message is intact, I'm fine.

What is the core message? I assume you mean cherry-picked

The ideal thing to see in this moment before TZ's post would be a synopsis of what you perceive to be the core message of a collection of books rooted in ancient history, Mglaffas81. Then things would get way cool. ☺️

(I'm truly not being sarcastic. I'm just waaaaay blazed right now and really interested in more specific and detailed perspectives you may have. Serious)

Heres how I look at it. Christianity isn't a religion it's a personal relationship with Jesus. It's as simple as that to me. Set aside all the man made crap and politics. People get caught up in all the other stuff and lose sight of what being a Christian means.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

What is the core message? I assume you mean cherry-picked

John 3:16

What else?

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Of course Religion shouldn't be banned - people's reliance on it has to do with culture and upbringing - what is frustrating, though, is how religion is so obviously wrong, flawed, immoral (makes morally decent people do wicked things) and no more than a pervasive cultural superstition. The term "canonical gospels" is simply laughable - the bible is full of contradictions, fabrications and gravely immoral concepts (vicarious redemption and scapegoating as core principles) - I simply do not see the need for it, or its allure.

New atheist detected.

If what you ascertain between the lines is assumed to be correct, feel free to correct and amend my hypothesis of course, that is "how foolish and absurd is to be a Christian/Religious person" I would have to call various monstrous writers, musicians and scientists "fools", something that I cannot agree to by any means.

Thrasher73 wrote:

Heres how I look at it. Christianity isn't a religion it's a personal relationship with Jesus. It's as simple as that to me. Set aside all the man made crap and politics. People get caught up in all the other stuff and lose sight of what being a Christian means.

As I grow older I see it this way as well - being a Christian is not about being perfect (or pretending to be), pleasing others, doing things a certain way, being part of a political party, or getting rich/powerful.

It is about knowing Christ and following Him. It is about serving others. It is about helping others know Christ so they can trust Him and give life's burdens to God.

Billy Graham was a powerful force but he was not without his imperfections. If you read his regrets that he laid out later in his life, he had opportunities to really make a statement and be an example in the segregation era and he did not take those opportunities. I like that he admitted his shortcomings in hopes that others would not make the same mistake.