New Top 25 Thrash List...

No elements of Thrash Metal at all...

Eyesore wrote:

Pantera is certainly not a thrash band

Why are you so certain of this?  What aspect of their music negates the thrash tag?

I can go either way really.  They developed a new kind of thrash that other thrash bands were influenced by.

I don't see the thrash tag as limiting as many. It's as expansive as "power metal".

Fat Freddy wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Still beats the boring look all those grunge bands had.

You got issues, son.

How so? The Flannel style(which was never supposed to become a style in the first place, as Nirvana only wore flannel because it was the warmest thing they could find)most grunge bands adopted was just so boring in comparison to the look of 80s rock bands, I guess it was appropriate because the look certainly reflected grunge music- boring, lifeless and wholly uninspired.

P.S., still not really hearing much thrash influence from Pantera.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Pantera is certainly not a thrash band

Why are you so certain of this?  What aspect of their music negates the thrash tag?

I can go either way really.  They developed a new kind of thrash that other thrash bands were influenced by.

Aren't you the guy who's argued that heavy metal didn't exist back in the 70s?

Vexer6 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Pantera is certainly not a thrash band

Why are you so certain of this?  What aspect of their music negates the thrash tag?

I can go either way really.  They developed a new kind of thrash that other thrash bands were influenced by.

Aren't you the guy who's argued that heavy metal didn't exist back in the 70s?

I'm the guy who had words put in his mouth by Scott to "say" that. I never, ever said that. Scott made up straw man arguments to challenge so that he could pretend that he defeated mine.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Gaaaaack! Thanks SO much for that Pretty Boy Floyd pic. I'm off to scrub my retinas with a Brillo pad now.

You're welcome!

I had to post it, it is honestly one of the funniest things I've seen in ages. Just off picture I'm imagining Manowar saying 'Now those guys look silly!'

Temple of Blood wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Pantera is certainly not a thrash band

Why are you so certain of this?  What aspect of their music negates the thrash tag?

I can go either way really.  They developed a new kind of thrash that other thrash bands were influenced by.

Aren't you the guy who's argued that heavy metal didn't exist back in the 70s?

I'm the guy who had words put in his mouth by Scott to "say" that.  I never, ever said that.  Scott made up straw man arguments to challenge so that he could pretend that he defeated mine.  

Scott did not make up any "straw-man" argument".

Vexer6 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

[quote="Vexer6

I'm the guy who had words put in his mouth by Scott to "say" that.  I never, ever said that.  Scott made up straw man arguments to challenge so that he could pretend that he defeated mine.  

Scott did not make up any "straw-man" argument".

He claimed I said something that I didn't so that he could refute it.  

If Black Sabbath existed in the 70s (which they did) then so did metal.  I never said otherwise.

Man. This thread blew up fast.

corplhicks wrote:

Man. This thread blew up fast.

Blame me. I should never have posted that question asking if Pantera was a thrash band.

Witchfinder wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

Man. This thread blew up fast.

Blame me.  I should never have posted that question asking if Pantera was a thrash band.

It's a good question but probably deserves its own thread.

Hey, ultmetal, check your private messages.

Required Fields wrote:

Hey, ultmetal, check your private messages.

You know when you send a PM, they get a notification and a pop-up, right?

Pantera just don't fit on a thrash list IMO. They certainly had some thrash elements on Power Metal, but that album is never the one listed on these lists. It's always these groove albums that have little to nothing to do with thrash.

As for the 1970's argument that ToB and I had a few years ago now, he agreed that Judas Priest and Black Sabbath were heavy metal in the 70's. The argument we were having was whether bands like Kiss, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Van Halen, etc. were considered heavy metal in the 70's.

Here's a couple thrash metal lists from the past. You'll notice Guitar World also lists Cowboys from Hell in their thrash list.

ultmetal wrote:

Here are some interesting lists:

Guitar World - 10 Essential Thrash Records (2007)
1. Metallica - Master of Puppets
2. Slayer - Reign in Blood
3. Megadeth - Rust in Peace
4. Exodus - Bonded By Blood
5. Metallica - Kill 'Em All
6. Anthrax - Among the Living
7. Testament - The New Order
8. Overkill - The Years of Decay
9. Possessed - Seven Churches
10. Pantera - Cowboys from Hell

Terrorizer Top 20 All-Time Thrash Albums (2007)
1. Slayer - Reign in Blood
2. Metallica - Ride the Lightning
3. Metallica - Master of Puppets
4. Exodus - Bonded by Blood
5. Possessed - Seven Churches
6. Kreator - Pleasure to Kill
7. Dark Angel - Darkness Descends
8. Anthrax- Among the Living
9. Slayer - Hell Awaits
10. Sepultura - Beneath the Remains
11. Venom - Black Metal
12. Voivod - Killing Technology
13. Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion
14. Testament - The Legacy
15. Nuclear Assault - Gave OVer
16. Bathory - Under the Sign of the Black Mark
17. Celtic Frost - Morbid Tales
18. Metallica - Kill 'Em All
19. Death Angel - The Ultra Violence
20. TIE: Megadeth - So Far, So Good...So What!
Nuclear Assault - Handle With Care

These lists are always interesting, but the subjective nature of personal opinion leaves a lot to be desired. One thing that really irks me the most is the revisionist view points that refer to the likes of Celtic Frost, Bathory, and Death (whom are black and death metal respectively) as thrash. They DO have a lot of thrash elements along with Pantera, but shouldn't be included on a greatest thrash list. Well ok, I'll give you CF, they could squeak by.

It's nice to see Voivod get some well deserved praise, but there's not enough variety here. I'd switch the Death Angel pick to Frolic Through The Park for one, cut the Pantera and a Testament album as well.

Again, the core problem is that when a genre is brand new and just developing all the supposed "restrictions" don't exist. It's only later, after they have been parsed, categorized, labeled and shoved into little tiny inflexible boxes that people start arguing about what is/isn't thrash or whatever.

DeathCult wrote:

One thing that really irks me the most is the revisionist view points that refer to the likes of Celtic Frost, Bathory, and Death (whom are black and death metal respectively) as thrash. They DO have a lot of thrash elements along with Pantera, but shouldn't be included on a greatest thrash list.

Agreed. Irks me too.

I'm surprised PRONG aren't mentioned in more thrash discussions. Their music was clearly thrash and they had a lot of great stuff.

Beg To Differ is one of my favorites, bought a used copy a couple years ago and was pleased to find it's just as good as I remembered.

S.D. wrote:

Beg To Differ is one of my favorites, bought a used copy a couple years ago and was pleased to find it's just as good as I remembered.  

Yeah, same here. I relistened to it recently after years away from it and was impressed with it again. Same with "Prove You Wrong".

Prong are still playing "Beg to Differ" and "For Dear Life" from that album live. Both were in their set when I saw them open for Overkill a few months ago.

...and yup, they both still sound bad-ass.

This was always one of my favorite Prong tunes...

Speaking of Prong, they've got a covers album on the way. Just posted a thread 'bout it.

DeathCult wrote:

These lists are always interesting, but the subjective nature of personal opinion leaves a lot to be desired. One thing that really irks me the most is the revisionist view points that refer to the likes of Celtic Frost, Bathory, and Death (whom are black and death metal respectively) as thrash. They DO have a lot of thrash elements along with Pantera, but shouldn't be included on a greatest thrash list. Well ok, I'll give you CF, they could squeak by.

It's nice to see Voivod get some well deserved praise, but there's not enough variety here. I'd switch the Death Angel pick to Frolic Through The Park for one, cut the Pantera and a Testament album as well.

Scream Bloody Gore was not death metal, it was brutal thrash metal. Death metal did not exist at the time.

Fair enough Celtic Frost were never thrash. Bathory? I really don't know, they never really fit in with the  crowd but again to just say that they were black metal when that genre hadn't really found an identity at the time really is revisionism, they were just Bathory.

I'm well aware that these bands have been put into neat little boxes with the benefit of 30 years hindsight but at the time it was one scene and a lot of these genre tags were interchangeable. Celtic Frost were actually the first band that i ever saw refer to themselves as death metal although they could hardly be categorized as that now. i also don't really see how you can categorically state that Bathory were never thrash but Voivod definitely were as both bands had a unique sound that could not easily be labelled, so we didn't, we just banged our f*%king heads! (ahh the good old days!)

I also think that if Bathory cannot be considered thrash then neither can the first two Sodom releases.

The thing with pantera is similar to the 70s arguments..when they came out with cowboys from Hell it was a really heavy Metallica influenced thrashy album..granted, when I hear it today it doesn't seem as heavy to me as when I first heard it back in 1990 but also keep in mind that back in 1990 glam/hair metal was still riding high....In 1990 Cowboys was one of the heaviest albums to get mainstream radio play and promotion....