Fight for the Rock?

Ok, I'm a long-time lurker on here who finally decided to register and I'm going to make my first post the kind of thing that would probably earn a ban on less enlightened forums.

I've been on a huge Savatage/Jon Oliva kick since I was first introduced to their back catalog and I've gotta cop to the fact that I don't get the hate this album receives (other than in historical context).  Granted, it's not exactly Hall of the Mountain King, but "Hard for Love" off of Power of the Night was a lot poppier for its time to these ears.

Hmm..  Second poll idea: How long have you kept a straight face while listening to "Hard for Love?" 

It's got some good tracks on it and some complete crap. I voted meh. It's definitely the Savatage album that I listen to least.

Reading the liners of the Edel reissue, it sounds like most of the songs had been written to farm out to other bands. Part of me wonders what might have happened if this had actually been carried out as the plan.

I got to see Jon during his Storyteller tour in Pittsburgh and he played "Out on the Streets" with piano as the dominant instrument. It sounded flippin' great!

The two covers are good.

I still listen to this from time to time

To me, the songs are well written but for the most part not Savatage songs.  The written for other artists makes sense now that you hear it.  Never knew that.

Its not anymore horrible then say 'Turbo' or 'The Pack Is Back'. It just sounded like a band trying to hard to be something they weren't, mainly a pop metal band.

I have not heard the album in years, may even like it more then I did as a teenager, but its not the ear cancer alot of diehard Savatage fans made it out to be.

Jon also said that he and Criss wrote a bunch of songs in the UK while recording, so I don't know what portion of the songs had already been written with that in mind... Grain of salt and all that.

It's kind of a shame, actually. I like what Jon does on his own, but it'd be cool to hear his stuff at work with bands outside of a Sava/TSO type sound. Imagine him writing for a female fronted hard rock band like The Pretty Reckless or for a folkie or something. Might not work, but it'd be interesting to hear.

Runicen wrote:

Jon also said that he and Criss wrote a bunch of songs in the UK while recording, so I don't know what portion of the songs had already been written with that in mind...  Grain of salt and all that.  

It's kind of a shame, actually.  I like what Jon does on his own, but it'd be cool to hear his stuff at work with bands outside of a Sava/TSO type sound.  Imagine him writing for a female fronted hard rock band like The Pretty Reckless or for a folkie or something.  Might not work, but it'd be interesting to hear.

You listen to their albums as their career moved along, they were not interested in being lumped in with either thrash or pop metal, they are almost a prog metal bands.

Genre labels certainly did not mean much to them, because their is lot more going on to their music then just standard heavy metal tunes.

Okay album, not great just okay

manny wrote:

You listen to their albums as their career moved along, they were not interested in being lumped in with either thrash or pop metal, they are almost a prog metal bands.

Genre labels certainly did not mean much to them, because their is lot more going on to their music then just standard heavy metal tunes.

What really burns is that Jon periodically mentions in interviews how Criss wanted to do a 100% instrumental solo album. THAT would have been a joy to behold.

Not as bad as I first thought but Manny was right, it sounds like they're trying to be something they're not.

The very definition of "phoned-in". Uninspired, lazy, boring album.

I voted KILL IT WITH THE FIST OF THE METAL CHILD. I've not heard it, but that sounded the most fun option   

I voted "Meh, It's Ok". Overall it's decent. Nothing outstanding about it.

This one, in my opinion, gets shit one because of when it came out. Coming on the heals of Sirens, Dungeons, and Power of the Night, how could it not have angered fans? Had it come out three years later, though, I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

I'll admit, "Day After Day" is godawful. I don't care if it's a cover people love. It's one of those songs that makes me want to shove a sharpened pencil in each ear. "Out On the Streets" and "Crying for Love" aren't great, but they're good. Beyond that, though, it's hard for me to find a bad song. Even the other cover, "Wishing Well," is solid. Most of the other songs, in my opinion, are excellent, classic kind of Sava tunes.

In fact, for the most part, aside from the softer guitar tone, I don't really hear a big difference here. I know Jon says he dislikes the album because the label pressured him into going a more "pop rock" route, but I think he failed in doing so. How can he and Savatage fans not love "The Edge of Midnight," "Hyde," "Lady in Disguise," "Red Light Paradise," "Fight for the Rock," and "She's Only Rock 'N' Roll?" These are kick-ass songs! And they hold up very strongly against some of the band's best work.

I think Jon's life and experiences surrounding the creation of that album has soured him on it, much like how Jon Schaffer feels about Burnt Offerings. It's a fantastic album yet Schaffer dislikes it. I think Fight for the Rock is a damn good one, too.

Boris2008 wrote:

I voted KILL IT WITH THE FIST OF THE METAL CHILD. I've not heard it, but that sounded the most fun option   

I had a sneaking suspicion I should have made the "worst" option less cool sounding...

Oh, and massive thumbs up for Eyesore's thoughts on it.

I imagine Jon's dislike for the album has a little to do with the fact that, by his account, while the band was in the UK living off of peanut butter sandwiches, their management apparently bilked them out of something in the neighborhood of $1 mil. I probably wouldn't be feeling too chipper when reminded of those times either.  

I like "Hyde," "Red Light Paradise" and yes, even the hated cover of Badfinger's "Day After Day" (which, when you think about it, foreshadows much of the piano-centric material that would come later)... the rest is, ehhh. I don't hate it but I don't reach for this album very often either.

What Eyesore said is why I voted not as bad as first thought though there are parts that don't seem like Sava'.

im a savatage fan that has almost all of the savatage related discographies and even going to fly to progpower this year just to see jop. . their weakest album in my opinion even tough i still enjoy it. "fight for the rock, out on the streets, crying for love, day after day, hyde" are good songs the rest arent memorable

Some of the tracks from this album still sound like something that wouldn't be out of place on Sirens, Power, Dungeons or Hall.
I mean, try finding something this heavy on Turbo or Hysteria:




But then, even Saxon had the awesome epic power metal song Battle Cry on the otherwise mostly boring Rock the Nation's album...

nevermore wrote:

I voted "Meh, It's Ok". Overall it's decent. Nothing outstanding about it.

I voted the same.

TGD, I think the album deserves credit just for including Hyde - a great song with one of those inhuman "how the hell did he sing that" vocals.

It has it's moments but it is one of the weakest Savatage records IMO.

I think it's one of their best, I prefer it to everything that came after Edge Of Thorns.

Vexer6 wrote:

I think it's one of their best, I prefer it to everything that came after Edge Of Thorns.

You cwazy.   

Eyesore wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

I think it's one of their best, I prefer it to everything that came after Edge Of Thorns.

You cwazy.   

I just personally felt like the band lost something after Criss Olivia died. I think perhaps it would've been best if they'd called it quits at that point, Criss was an integral part of the group, and without him it sounded like a completely different band.