What is HEAVY METAL

What is HEAVY METAL?
This should be an interesting discussion. I've been a metal fan since I was in grade school in the 1970's. I was into bands like Aerosmith, Black Sabbath, UFO, Judas Priest, Ted Nugent, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, etc. However, in recent years I seem to get more and more metal fans who will argue til they run out of breathe that if there is the smallest trace of 'blues', it is not heavy metal. In the 70s and early 80's, hard rock and heavy metal were synonymous. Now it seems people want to rewrite history and suddenly bands like Aerosmith, Black Sabbath, UFO, Judas Priest, Ted Nugent, Thin Lizzy, Deep Purple, etc. were never heavy metal, but were just hard rock.

Here is a conversation I am having on another board:

Question is...is Aerosmith a "metal" band?

My reply:
And the seldghammer that powers the American Heavy Metal Machines is undeniably Aerosmith. -Grooves Magazine, 1978



People would argue til they pass out that Aerosmith aren't a heavy
metal band,. Compared to what we label heavy metal today, they probably
aren't. However, in the 1970's they were most certainly called heavy
metal by both the press and the masses. "Rocks" was as heavy as
American metal got in 1976.

And sure enough, I got an argument that goes like this:
IMHO: I'm not sure magazines hold the final word for what is considered metal
or not. How many real metal magazines were there in the 70s anyway?



Even now, Spin Magazine probably calls Korn metal but a mag like Metal
Maniacs probably wouldn't. You gotta look at the source and see how
much they really know about metal anyway.



Bryan Adams and Meatloaf were on the cover of Kerrang back in the 80s. Should we now consider them metal?



Blues-based hard rock songs aren't metal. If that is the majority of a band's repitoire then they aren't a metal band.

My reply:
Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you. As a matter of fact most
people who are well versed in heavy metal history would disagree. Most
metal biographies would also disagree. If blues-based hard rock isn't
metal, then bands like Black Sabbath and Deep Purple, who most credit
with being the origins of heavy metal, aren't heavy metal. For that
matter, a good portion of Judas Priest's early catalog wouldn't be
heavy metal either. I can't understand this weird preoccupation
so-called 'true metalheads' have with saying that heavy metal cannot be
blues based.



You are attempting to rewrite history. Fact is, in the 1970's heavy
metal was bands like Black Sabbath, UFO, Ted Nugent, Thin Lizzy, Led
Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Judas Priest, Riot, etc. The band's called
themselves heavy metal. The fans called it heavy metal. The labels
called it heavy metal. The magazines called it heavy metal. The
reviewers called it heavy metal. There were even heavy metal
compilations with these sorts of bands on them. Argue all you want. I
was there. I lived it. You won't change my mind.

That's an very interesting topic. Well, nowadays are bands like Korn
and Slipknot considered metal, and in the 70s were Aerosmith and a lot
of other bands, which were in general a lot "softer" than Black
Sabbath. Well, but if it's called nu-METAL, then it should be reffered
as metal Like if you have an apple juice or an orange juice, like
'em or not, both are juices. Well, back to metal - were Motley Crue
metal? Poison? Alice in Chains? A lot of artists got titled "heavy
metal" by their labels / corrupted reviewers from the bigger magazines
etc.. And Korn recorded "the heaviest album in the year". Well, I say,
it depends how you look at it. From the commercial / more extensive
view, heck, even Poison are metal and Every Rose Has it's Torn is the
heaviest song of all time. From the completely other point of view,
Metallica were the first real metal band to record an album



Below I copied the Wikipedia article about the history of heavy metal
term. And, even for the term is very unsure who first "invented" it,
and god knows how many underground bands, heavyier than Sabbath,
already existed in the underground in the late 60s....



The term "heavy metal"



The origin of the term heavy metal in relation to a form of
music is uncertain. The phrase had been used for centuries in chemistry
and metallurgy and is listed as such in the Oxford English Dictionary. An early use of the term in modern popular culture was by counter-culture writer William S. Burroughs. In the 1962 novel, The Soft Machine, he introduces the character "Uranian Willy, the Heavy Metal Kid". His next novel in 1964, Nova Express, develops this theme further, heavy metal being a metaphor for addictive drugs.

<blockquote>
With their diseases and orgasm drugs and their sexless parasite life
forms — Heavy Metal People of Uranus wrapped in cool blue mist of
vaporized bank notes — And the Insect People of Minraud with metal music[7]
</blockquote>

The first recorded use of heavy metal in a song lyric is the phrase "heavy metal thunder" in the 1968 Steppenwolf song "Born To Be Wild"[8]:

<blockquote>
I like smoke and lightning

Heavy metal thunder

Racin' with the wind

And the feelin' that I'm under
</blockquote>

The book The History of Heavy Metal states the name as a take from "hippiespeak," heavy meaning anything with a potent mood, and metal,
specifically designating what the mood would be, grinding and weighted
as with metal. The word "heavy" (meaning serious or profound) had
entered beatnik/counterculture slang
some time earlier and references to "heavy music"—typically slower,
more amplified variations of standard pop fare—were already common;
indeed, Iron Butterfly first started playing Los Angeles
in 1967, their name explained on an album cover, "Iron- symbolic of
something heavy as in sound, Butterfly- light, appealing and
versatile...an object that can be used freely in the imagination". Iron
Butterfly's 1968 debut album was entitled Heavy. The fact that Led Zeppelin (whose moniker came partly in reference to Keith Moon's
jest that they would "go down like a lead balloon") incorporated a
heavy metal into its name may have sealed the usage of the term.

In the late 1960s, Birmingham, England was still a centre for manufacturing and (given the many rock bands that evolved in and around the city, such as The Move, and Black Sabbath), some people suggest that the term Heavy Metal may have some relation to such activity. Biographies of The Move have claimed that the sound came from their 'heavy' guitar riffs that were popular amongst the 'metal midlands'.


Cover from Blue Öyster Cult's 1986 album Club Ninja, depicting the group's use of alchemical symbol for lead - a heavy metal.






Sandy Pearlman, original producer, manager and songwriter for Blue Öyster Cult,
claims to have been the first person to apply the term "heavy metal" to
rock music in 1970. In creating much of the band's image, which
included tongue-in-cheek references to the occult, Pearlman came up
with a symbol for the group (similar to the use of a symbol Iron Maiden later included on their album cover artwork), the Alchemical symbol for lead - one of the heaviest of metals. He put forth this term to describe the type of music that Blue Öyster Cult played.

A late, but disputed, hypothesis about the origin of the genre was brought forth by "Chas" Chandler, who was a manager of the Jimi Hendrix Experience
in 1969, in an interview on the PBS TV program "Rock and Roll" in 1995.
He states that "...it [heavy metal] was a term originated in a New York
Times article reviewing a Jimi Hendrix performance," and claims the author described the Jimi Hendrix Experience
"...like listening to heavy metal falling from the sky." The precise
source of this claim, however, has not been found and its accuracy is
disputed.

The first well-documented usage of the term "heavy metal" referring to a style of music, appears to be the May 1971 issue of Creem, in a review of Sir Lord Baltimore's Kingdom Come. In this review we are told that "Sir Lord Baltimore seems to have down pat most all the best heavy metal tricks in the book".[9] Creem critic Lester Bangs
subsequently has been credited with popularizing the term in the early
1970s in regards to bands such as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath.[10]

Heavy metal may have been used as a jibe initially by a
number of music critics but was quickly adopted by its adherents.
Other, already-established bands, such as Deep Purple, who had origins in pop or progressive rock, immediately took on the heavy metal mantle, adding distortion and additional amplification in a more aggressive approach.

My favorite entry from the HALL OF SHAME!

Iron Maiden and Slayer were the first real metal bands.

Quote :

You don't know s**t about heavy metal! I do think my opinion carries weight since I've been into metal for 20+ years. My friend has been in it longer than I have by at least 5 years. So you're going up against 40+ years combined Metal expierence if you wanna "fight" about it! Why have Peter Gabriel on a metal page? Judas Priest are not heavy metal. They are hard rock! I like the song "Turbo Lover" and I appreciate the sentinent expressed in the song "Parental Guidance" but that's about it. I've heard their stuff from the 70's - musically it's just to dry to me anyways. It's not METAL in my book. I will certainly agree with HARD ROCK, just not METAL.

Judas Priest is BLUE OYSTER BAR METAL maybe? I will agree the album "TURBO" was much more metal than the stuff they did in the 70s. I HATE "Breaking the Law" -- what the heck is so "Metal" about THAT song? Judas Priest was always described with a term called "British Steel" - which to me was never fully "Metal". Frankly, I never fully considered Scorpions, Raven, or Trouble metal either. They have some Metal influence - but they often lack the "edge" that bands like Iron Maiden, Savatage, Manowar, etc. have.

In reply to your review saying Painkill is one of the genre's most complete albums of all time: Isn't PAINKILLER the album those guys did a cover of "Johnny B. Good" or whatever?

Actually Saxon was a blues based rock band basically. Which is why I never considered them metal. Most people would, and to be honest it doesn't bother me. They are heavy, but not metal. They are more hard rock to be precice.

SCORPIONS has SOME metal influence but I've never considered them metal. I rememebr the day when Iron Maiden fans used to beat up Scorpions fans for being poseurs. GLAM! HARD ROCK! ANYTHING but METAL! I DO LIKE some of the songs by the Scorpions but I just don't call 'em METAL! Anything BUT that. Hard Rock with "Metal" flavour MAYBE!

Led Zeppelin wasn't even close, they started classic rock, imo. The Beatles was just a happy happy joy joy punk rock band too.

I've always contended Iron Maiden were the true founders of Metal. The style was virtually nonexistent before they came on the scene. I would argue strongly that the other guys like Judas Priest and Black Sabbath are just "blues rock".

I heard Raven -- an album called "Mad" - I threw that in the POSEUR bin with Winger and Poison. Tesla leans more towards Glam Poseur Metal like Raven too.

When I read the interviews with the bands who MADE the Metal, such as Slayer, Maiden, Manowar, Savatage, etc. - most of those bands sight CLASSICAL as their inspiration, not blues. I go by what the bands themselves have said.

Black Sabbath may have laid the "Roots" of modern metal. But the groups who came to shape it were influenced by CLASSICAL COMPOSERS. Metal that is TRUE Metal sounds like CLASSICAL or else it's NOT METAL! If it sounds like LED ZEPPLIN or BLACK SABBATH then it's BLUES and BLUES is NOT METAL. Sorry to but in! I'm just tired of this "Led Zepplin & Black Sabbath started Metal" crap! You don't know sh*t about metal if you think Black Sabbath and Judas Priest started metal. Iron Maiden and Slayer were the first real metal bands.

Most people like you who believe Led Zepplin and Black Sabbath started metal are those who have spent too many years listening to the media. Slayer are not the "gods" of Metal, but bands like Slayer are the ones who molded and shaped Metal's TRUE form. I've always contended Iron Maiden were the true founders of Metal. The style was virtually nonexistent before they came on the scene. I would argue strongly that the other guys are just "blues rock".

One thing I will argue until the day I die is... if it has ANY "Blues" in it, IT'S NOT METAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't hear ANY "Blues" when I listen to "Mechanics of Perilous Times" for example -- THEREFORE, Ultimatum is METAL on that album.

I CAN see how people can argue Black Sabbath and Rainbow (WITH DIO) as being part of the roots of Metal. But definitely not Led Zepplin, Kiss, or Aerosmith. Aerosmith is a poseur glam pop band! They were NEVER "Heavy Metal" -- there was NEVER ANYTHING HEAVY about them. Metal has an edge they never possessed. Maiden was the first real band to have that "edge". I'm a total 80s kid! If it's got BLUES, it's NOT METAL!!!"

:huh:

Ult,sounds like that guy didnt know about metal.

What is Heavy Metal?I would say the early days of metal would be Led Zeppelin,Sabbath,but this question is so hard to answer.I dont know,I'll have to go think awhile:scratch:

Sounds like the guy you are arguing with has a few screws loose!

heavy metal was used for the first time in song Born To Be Wild. than used for Led Zepp 'til Sabbath released 1st album. than it is REAL METAL, rest are only moods. nothing more. 1st is 1st.

Led Zeppelin I and the first Black Sabbath release were less than a year apart.

Quote :

heavy metal was used for the first time in song
Born To Be Wild. than used for Led Zepp 'til Sabbath released 1st
album. than it is REAL METAL, rest are only moods. nothing more. 1st is
1st.

Yes, but why? Why are Sabbath metal and let's say, Cream, not?

Because Cream is awful in my book


and isn't "heavy metal thunder" mentioned in Born to be Wild all about the roar of a motorcycle ?

Like I have said before:

The term heavy metal refers to any metallic chemical element that has a relatively high density and is toxic, highly toxic or poisonous at low concentrations. Examples of heavy metals include mercury (Hg), cadmium (Cd), arsenic (As), chromium (Cr), thallium (Tl), and lead (Pb).

Heavy metal to me are those dam columns and beams I weld everyday at work!

Anyway I think to most the term heavy metal wasn't a term until the mid 70's. But IMO and my earliest recollection of metal is Steppenwolf yes the term "Heavy Metal Thunder" wasn't from that lyric IMO.

But if you were to say who metal back in those days you would have to with the obvious "Black Sabbath" But to those were not highly into metal there were tons that were not popular. A couple come to mind Trapeze, Budgie, Atomic Rooster, White Witch.

But to those who are familiar with metal or popular bands in the day you could say Uriah Heep, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin although blues infused they are considered metal. Later on are Riot, Saxon, Montrose, Judas Priest.

Anwya this debate has been going on for years all you have to know is that these were the bands who transformed what metal is today!

And no Cream is not metal orientated if you watch the Cream dvd they will say they are blues based!

Wargod48

ultmetal wrote:

My favorite entry from the HALL OF SHAME!

Iron Maiden and Slayer were the first real metal bands.

Quote :

You don't know s**t about heavy metal! I do think my opinion carries weight since I've been into metal for 20+ years. My friend has been in it longer than I have by at least 5 years. So you're going up against 40+ years combined Metal expierence if you wanna "fight" about it! Why have Peter Gabriel on a metal page? Judas Priest are not heavy metal. They are hard rock! I like the song "Turbo Lover" and I appreciate the sentinent expressed in the song "Parental Guidance" but that's about it. I've heard their stuff from the 70's - musically it's just to dry to me anyways. It's not METAL in my book. I will certainly agree with HARD ROCK, just not METAL.

Judas Priest is BLUE OYSTER BAR METAL maybe? I will agree the album "TURBO" was much more metal than the stuff they did in the 70s. I HATE "Breaking the Law" -- what the heck is so "Metal" about THAT song? Judas Priest was always described with a term called "British Steel" - which to me was never fully "Metal". Frankly, I never fully considered Scorpions, Raven, or Trouble metal either. They have some Metal influence - but they often lack the "edge" that bands like Iron Maiden, Savatage, Manowar, etc. have.

In reply to your review saying Painkill is one of the genre's most complete albums of all time: Isn't PAINKILLER the album those guys did a cover of "Johnny B. Good" or whatever?

Actually Saxon was a blues based rock band basically. Which is why I never considered them metal. Most people would, and to be honest it doesn't bother me. They are heavy, but not metal. They are more hard rock to be precice.

SCORPIONS has SOME metal influence but I've never considered them metal. I rememebr the day when Iron Maiden fans used to beat up Scorpions fans for being poseurs. GLAM! HARD ROCK! ANYTHING but METAL! I DO LIKE some of the songs by the Scorpions but I just don't call 'em METAL! Anything BUT that. Hard Rock with "Metal" flavour MAYBE!

Led Zeppelin wasn't even close, they started classic rock, imo. The Beatles was just a happy happy joy joy punk rock band too.

I've always contended Iron Maiden were the true founders of Metal. The style was virtually nonexistent before they came on the scene. I would argue strongly that the other guys like Judas Priest and Black Sabbath are just "blues rock".

I heard Raven -- an album called "Mad" - I threw that in the POSEUR bin with Winger and Poison. Tesla leans more towards Glam Poseur Metal like Raven too.

When I read the interviews with the bands who MADE the Metal, such as Slayer, Maiden, Manowar, Savatage, etc. - most of those bands sight CLASSICAL as their inspiration, not blues. I go by what the bands themselves have said.

Black Sabbath may have laid the "Roots" of modern metal. But the groups who came to shape it were influenced by CLASSICAL COMPOSERS. Metal that is TRUE Metal sounds like CLASSICAL or else it's NOT METAL! If it sounds like LED ZEPPLIN or BLACK SABBATH then it's BLUES and BLUES is NOT METAL. Sorry to but in! I'm just tired of this "Led Zepplin & Black Sabbath started Metal" crap! You don't know sh*t about metal if you think Black Sabbath and Judas Priest started metal. Iron Maiden and Slayer were the first real metal bands.

Most people like you who believe Led Zepplin and Black Sabbath started metal are those who have spent too many years listening to the media. Slayer are not the "gods" of Metal, but bands like Slayer are the ones who molded and shaped Metal's TRUE form. I've always contended Iron Maiden were the true founders of Metal. The style was virtually nonexistent before they came on the scene. I would argue strongly that the other guys are just "blues rock".

One thing I will argue until the day I die is... if it has ANY "Blues" in it, IT'S NOT METAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't hear ANY "Blues" when I listen to "Mechanics of Perilous Times" for example -- THEREFORE, Ultimatum is METAL on that album.

I CAN see how people can argue Black Sabbath and Rainbow (WITH DIO) as being part of the roots of Metal. But definitely not Led Zepplin, Kiss, or Aerosmith. Aerosmith is a poseur glam pop band! They were NEVER "Heavy Metal" -- there was NEVER ANYTHING HEAVY about them. Metal has an edge they never possessed. Maiden was the first real band to have that "edge". I'm a total 80s kid! If it's got BLUES, it's NOT METAL!!!"

:huh:

Sorry for quoting this but.................LOL!!!!!

anyone i've ever heard or anything i've ever read that tried to define Metal, just ended up sounding silly. it cannot be defined. it's just a bastard child of rock 'n roll that you know when you hear it. it doesn't need definition, explanation, or agreement.

Steppenwolf's Born To Be Wild first therm of HM. after this, Qs bout what is HM started 'till today ! and probably gonna never be solved.
Was Elvis Presley Metal ? or Bee Gees ?

Qs could be set on everyone. but we the members knows, where is truth. TRUTH is in OUR METAL HEART, metal is what we listen, visit shows, buy cds,dvds, we are fans, .... This is METALlic SOUL in your body !

Heavy Metal doesn't exist anymore.

Ult, the bands you mentioned growing up with in the 70s by today's definition (and mine) are not heavy metal. You see, they weren't my scene. I was born in '81, I didn't get heavily into listening to music until about '95 or so. "Metal" then was the grunge & alternative stuff.

All these genres and definitions are really up to the person. You can't argue opinions, it's just the way you think and feel. But I'm not some idiot who is stubborn enough to say Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, and the like were never metal. At that point in time, I'm sure it was some pretty heavy stuff, because it was revolutionary. If you were growing up in that time, I'm sure it was and possibly still is "heavy metal" to you.

20 years from now teenagers will probably be laughing at all of the metal bands today and saying they weren't heavy at all. As time goes on, and new metal bands arrive, they seem to get heavier (and less appealing to my ears).

The point you made about "hard rock" and "heavy metal" in the 80s is pretty funny. The 80s weren't my rock scene either, but I'm huge fan of that era, so I've done my research, and it's always funny to see Poison, Alice Cooper, Slayer, Def Leppard, and Megadeth get lumped together as "heavy metal".

For the record though, with my personal defintion of what is "metal", I still consider Judas Priest and Black Sabbath to be a part of it.

I consider Judas Priest to be the first true "heavy metal" band. But you can definately say that Sabbath, UFO, Scorpions, Ted Nugent, etc... are metal bands, too. It's just my opinion.

metal = dark, guitar-riff oriented, heavy rock music

You can ask 1000 people what "heavy metal" is and you'll get 1000 different answers.

iamrockerfun wrote:

heavy metal was used for the first time in song Born To Be Wild. than used for Led Zepp 'til Sabbath released 1st album. than it is REAL METAL, rest are only moods. nothing more. 1st is 1st.

Wrong, that was only the first time someone used it in a song. Read the entire thread. Here is a quote:

Quote :

The origin of the term heavy metal in relation to a form of
music is uncertain. The phrase had been used for centuries in chemistry
and metallurgy and is listed as such in the Oxford English Dictionary. An early use of the term in modern popular culture was by counter-culture writer William S. Burroughs. In the 1962 novel, The Soft Machine, he introduces the character "Uranian Willy, the Heavy Metal Kid". His next novel in 1964, Nova Express, develops this theme further, heavy metal being a metaphor for addictive drugs.

What is Heavy Metal?

I became a metalhead in 2001 so i'll just say it's the music I love

I guess I've around since about the beginning (whenever that was); I'm 48 years old. I think the main point I'd like to make is that the term is evolving. I think it's strange when I was a teenager; we were using the term "Heavy Metal" everyday to describe the music we loved; but many people would argue that we were talking about something that didn't even exist yet! (except for Sabbath). How is that possible? That we defined ourselves as Metalheads before there was any Metal?
But I do realized that the term has evolved, even for me. Most of the music we loved back then I have no problem dedefining as "Hard Rock"; and not Metal. Also as I said elsewhere I would define Punk, Grunge, and most Nu-metal as "Loud Rock"; not Metal either. To me; the current definition of Metal requires that the band exhibits a certain technical proficiency: either being influenced by Classical music or just being very technically proficient with their guitars. I'm not saying that musicians playing other styles of Loud Rock can't play; I'm just saying that they choose to emphasise pure volume; attitude; or blues influences over the characteristics that pure metal bands emphasize. There are many examples of say Hard Rock bands who have some Metal songs in their reperatoire; Aerosmith's "Kings and Queens" for example; or Angel's "On the Rocks" (I think that's the title of the song I'm referring to). And as I said elsewhere, Sabbath's "Planet Caravan" is really a Prog song; not metal at all. That's my two cents. Also; I don't know very many Metal fans that don't also enjoy other forms of Loud or Hard Rock; and I don't think it's necessary to be so anal about what someone does or doesn't call metal. The term wil continue to evolve, it'll be interesting to see where.

Good points. The Kinks "You Really Got Me" from 1964 certainly has to be mentioned when talking about the pioneers or evolution of Metal (the first overt loud riff-rock song that I'm aware of). But I don't think anyone would dream of calling it metal anymore. Things do keep changing. In fact I would argue that some of the best "Metal" that I have learned about here (Fireball Ministry, Brand New Sin, We're All Gonna Die, Ironboss) is not metal at all; but rather what I would call Neo-Hard Rock. Ult I'm sure would disagree. Similarly some of the stuff most heavily identified as Metal just now (for example some of the super dark classical and folk influenced death/goth crossover stuff out of Europe in the last decade); I think you can make a case from a certain perspective that it's really mostly Progrock; not real Metal at all. An interesting question that each of us might ask ourselves would be where we consider the dead center (the mean) of Metal to be? I think Iron Maiden is pretty close to a definition of a band that is certainly Metal beyond any doubt.

I think that as a genre, heavy metal in it's purest sense can be summed up with bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath.

As mentioned in previous posts, as music evolved, bands once considered heavy were designated to hard rock when the above mentioned bands came onto the scene. If you think about it, what would you call a band like Judas Priest other than Heavy Metal? It wasn't until the mid-80's when record labels really started segregating and defining the different types of metal to market to different fan bases. Thrash metal, glam metal, power metal. These are terms the "suits" put on the music to sell it.

Sure, you could split hairs and call Iron Maiden progressive rock or Sabbath doom metal, but that's just trying to make it fit into a certain category. It's heavy metal. Since it's height of popularity in the 80's, most every band that's come down the pike since then had to fit into some category so it could be marketed properly.

We all know heavy metal when we hear it. We don't need someone telling us what's heavy metal. It's like trying to define what's offensive in pornography. What's offensive to you might not not be offensive to me, but I know pornography when I see it.