first pantera album bought

My first was Cowboys (which at the time I thought was their debut) and I love that thing. I got Vulgar sometime after it was releasesd and was surprisedthat some of the tunes off it were used in the opening of Headbanger's Ball (over destruction scenes from Ghidrah the Three Headed Monster,if I recall correctly).

After that I bought Far Beyond Driven which just didn't have "it" for me,got rid of that and I quickly lost interest in the band.

I would love to get those early albums eventually,if they ever get a proper release.

tohostudios wrote:

S.D. wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

Thanks FF.

I definitely like those songs better than the Pantera songs I've heard but I still find the vocals annoying. It does remind me of Painkiller Priest which I'm not all that fond of.

It's a miracle, I finally found someone else that doesn't really like Painkiller. I was feeling lonely in my apathy.

Yep, "apathetic" sums up my opinion of Painkiller perfectly. Not horrible, but just kinda "there" for me.

Never liked "Painkiller" too. There are like 3 tunes I really love, but others are just ok. Early Priest is way better.
Speaking of Pantera, I downloaded "I Am The Night" and "Power Metal" long time ago. These are good CD's but nothing great.

I think people bash Metallica for selling out to trends, but Pantera did so much more IMO. They started as a Glam band to capitalize on that, then morphed into a Speed Metal band to capitalize on that, then Thrash, and then Groove when that style was starting up...

I like Power Metal and moments on Cowboys, and the early records really show Dime's ability as a traditional heavy metal guitarist, but anything after that is trendy, commercial garbage with horrendous vocals. How Pantera stayed successful with the vocals from Vulgar -on- I have no idea, cause they are pretty awful.

To answer your question. A good starting point is Cowboys, since that's usually considered a decent record, but go backwards instead of forwards.

HeavyMetal wrote:

I think people bash Metallica for selling out to trends, but Pantera did so much more IMO. They started as a Glam band to capitalize on that, then morphed into a Speed Metal band to capitalize on that, then Thrash, and then Groove when that style was starting up...

I like Power Metal and moments on Cowboys, and the early records really show Dime's ability as a traditional heavy metal guitarist, but anything after that is trendy, commercial garbage with horrendous vocals. How Pantera stayed successful with the vocals from Vulgar -on- I have no idea, cause they are pretty awful.

To answer your question. A good starting point is Cowboys, since that's usually considered a decent record, but go backwards instead of forwards.

Uh, no. Dime was 17 when Metal Magic came out and their sound evolved over time getting progressively heavier. Their early sound matched what was popular at the time as can be expected from teenagers developing their own style. Pantera hardly became a "speed metal" band as Power Metal (the album) sounds like Judas Priest with a dash of the groove sound they were developing. By Cowboys, they were a full on groove metal band, which THEY made popular. If anything, they invented Groove Metal and continued in that vein for the rest of their careers. I would hardly call that "selling out."

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

Witchfinder wrote:

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

I don't see that. Who was Metallica supposedly "copying" for The Black Album? While I wasn't happy with their change of direction (at the time), they came up with the change on their own.

All the bands that tried to replicate the success of the Black Album (I'm talking to you Megadeth) by changing their sounds afterward could be more accurately labeled sell outs.

Calling Metallica "sell-outs" because of the Black Album is silly anyway considering they were already multi-platinum selling artists and were an arena headlining act.

Wurthless wrote:

The only worthwhile album from Pantera's early years is Power Metal, imo. Very Judas Priest sounding stuff, back when Phil Anselmo actually sang.

Nonsense. All four early albums are, for the most part, great 80s rock/metal albums. Some filler, but most is either really good to fantastic.

They need a damn reissue!

Quote :

If you like Painkiller-era Judas Priest or King Diamond, you'd like the album.

NO, ita by far their best but still doesn't measure up to those 2 bands in the slightest.

Pantera are one of the worst in my opinion though. Doesn't matter what album.

Witchfinder wrote:

HeavyMetal wrote:

I think people bash Metallica for selling out to trends, but Pantera did so much more IMO. They started as a Glam band to capitalize on that, then morphed into a Speed Metal band to capitalize on that, then Thrash, and then Groove when that style was starting up...

I like Power Metal and moments on Cowboys, and the early records really show Dime's ability as a traditional heavy metal guitarist, but anything after that is trendy, commercial garbage with horrendous vocals. How Pantera stayed successful with the vocals from Vulgar -on- I have no idea, cause they are pretty awful.

To answer your question. A good starting point is Cowboys, since that's usually considered a decent record, but go backwards instead of forwards.

Uh, no. Dime was 17 when Metal Magic came out and their sound evolved over time getting progressively heavier. Their early sound matched what was popular at the time as can be expected from teenagers developing their own style. Pantera hardly became a "speed metal" band as Power Metal (the album) sounds like Judas Priest with a dash of the groove sound they were developing. By Cowboys, they were a full on groove metal band, which THEY made popular. If anything, they invented Groove Metal and continued in that vein for the rest of their careers. I would hardly call that "selling out."

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

Yeah, anyone suggesting they sold out is an ignorant turd. Each album progressively got heavier as they went along. They never just jumped from glam to extreme metal like so many act like they did. It was a natural progression.

Witchfinder wrote:

HeavyMetal wrote:

I think people bash Metallica for selling out to trends, but Pantera did so much more IMO. They started as a Glam band to capitalize on that, then morphed into a Speed Metal band to capitalize on that, then Thrash, and then Groove when that style was starting up...

I like Power Metal and moments on Cowboys, and the early records really show Dime's ability as a traditional heavy metal guitarist, but anything after that is trendy, commercial garbage with horrendous vocals. How Pantera stayed successful with the vocals from Vulgar -on- I have no idea, cause they are pretty awful.

To answer your question. A good starting point is Cowboys, since that's usually considered a decent record, but go backwards instead of forwards.

Uh, no. Dime was 17 when Metal Magic came out and their sound evolved over time getting progressively heavier. Their early sound matched what was popular at the time as can be expected from teenagers developing their own style. Pantera hardly became a "speed metal" band as Power Metal (the album) sounds like Judas Priest with a dash of the groove sound they were developing. By Cowboys, they were a full on groove metal band, which THEY made popular. If anything, they invented Groove Metal and continued in that vein for the rest of their careers. I would hardly call that "selling out."

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

Pantera may be the only band who sold out by getting heavier

Eyesore wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

HeavyMetal wrote:

I think people bash Metallica for selling out to trends, but Pantera did so much more IMO. They started as a Glam band to capitalize on that, then morphed into a Speed Metal band to capitalize on that, then Thrash, and then Groove when that style was starting up...

I like Power Metal and moments on Cowboys, and the early records really show Dime's ability as a traditional heavy metal guitarist, but anything after that is trendy, commercial garbage with horrendous vocals. How Pantera stayed successful with the vocals from Vulgar -on- I have no idea, cause they are pretty awful.

To answer your question. A good starting point is Cowboys, since that's usually considered a decent record, but go backwards instead of forwards.

Uh, no. Dime was 17 when Metal Magic came out and their sound evolved over time getting progressively heavier. Their early sound matched what was popular at the time as can be expected from teenagers developing their own style. Pantera hardly became a "speed metal" band as Power Metal (the album) sounds like Judas Priest with a dash of the groove sound they were developing. By Cowboys, they were a full on groove metal band, which THEY made popular. If anything, they invented Groove Metal and continued in that vein for the rest of their careers. I would hardly call that "selling out."

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

Yeah, anyone suggesting they sold out is an ignorant turd. Each album progressively got heavier as they went along. They never just jumped from glam to extreme metal like so many act like they did. It was a natural progression.

Thanks for your very sophisticated and mature insult.

S.D. wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

I don't see that. Who was Metallica supposedly "copying" for The Black Album? While I wasn't happy with their change of direction (at the time), they came up with the change on their own.

All the bands that tried to replicate the success of the Black Album (I'm talking to you Megadeth) by changing their sounds afterward could be more accurately labeled sell outs.

Calling Metallica "sell-outs" because of the Black Album is silly anyway considering they were already multi-platinum selling artists and were an arena headlining act.

This. I don't know. Maybe "sell-out" isn't exactly the right term to describe Pantera's 4 album, 7 year trial of Glam metal to achieve success only becoming heavier as heavier music was becoming more popular career, but something doesn't add up to innovation or stylistic elimination.

Fat Freddy wrote:

I liked Cowboys, thought Vulgar Display was lukewarm aside from a few tracks, and afterwards, meh.

+ me.

S.D. wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

I don't see that. Who was Metallica supposedly "copying" for The Black Album? While I wasn't happy with their change of direction (at the time), they came up with the change on their own.

All the bands that tried to replicate the success of the Black Album (I'm talking to you Megadeth) by changing their sounds afterward could be more accurately labeled sell outs.

Calling Metallica "sell-outs" because of the Black Album is silly anyway considering they were already multi-platinum selling artists and were an arena headlining act.

I actually agree with this. I guess my sell-out comment refers to the Load/Reload era but honestly I am indifferent to the Metallica "sellout" thing as well. I just think Metallica stopped playing music I was interested in. I think they did it for completely commercial reasons but that's open to argument and really isn't a valid criticism anyway.

Anyone that argues that Pantera "sold out" by becoming heavier can't be serious. I fail to see how a 1983 Dime and 1990 Dime can't have changed their style over the course of seven years. Let us remember that Pantera was opening for Metallica and Slayer way back in the day and of course were influenced by them. Clearly the addition of Phil allowed them to pursue a heavier direction that Terry Glaze was not interested in.

Eyesore wrote:

Wurthless wrote:

The only worthwhile album from Pantera's early years is Power Metal, imo. Very Judas Priest sounding stuff, back when Phil Anselmo actually sang.

Nonsense. All four early albums are, for the most part, great 80s rock/metal albums. Some filler, but most is either really good to fantastic.

They need a damn reissue!

I can't believe that Vinny doesn't want to make the $$$ off of these even if Terry Glaze wants a cut. Reissue the damn things!

I liked the first 3 metal magic albums alot...of course I am a HUGE fan of glam/hair metal.

Quote :

When I swung into town (Arlington, Tx) in 1985. I bought "Projects In The Jungle" at Savvy's in Ft. Worth during a Pantera gig there. They were playng with Sweet Savage and Gypsy Blue.

Wow..I might have been at that show myself. I used to go to Savvy's myself to see alot of shows back in the day. Whatever happened to that club? Is it still around?

HeavyMetal wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

HeavyMetal wrote:

I think people bash Metallica for selling out to trends, but Pantera did so much more IMO. They started as a Glam band to capitalize on that, then morphed into a Speed Metal band to capitalize on that, then Thrash, and then Groove when that style was starting up...

I like Power Metal and moments on Cowboys, and the early records really show Dime's ability as a traditional heavy metal guitarist, but anything after that is trendy, commercial garbage with horrendous vocals. How Pantera stayed successful with the vocals from Vulgar -on- I have no idea, cause they are pretty awful.

To answer your question. A good starting point is Cowboys, since that's usually considered a decent record, but go backwards instead of forwards.

Uh, no. Dime was 17 when Metal Magic came out and their sound evolved over time getting progressively heavier. Their early sound matched what was popular at the time as can be expected from teenagers developing their own style. Pantera hardly became a "speed metal" band as Power Metal (the album) sounds like Judas Priest with a dash of the groove sound they were developing. By Cowboys, they were a full on groove metal band, which THEY made popular. If anything, they invented Groove Metal and continued in that vein for the rest of their careers. I would hardly call that "selling out."

Metallica had a hand in inventing a genre and then moved away from that sound to what was currently trendy in an effort to increase sales (not that there's anything wrong with that.) That's the very definition of selling out.

Yeah, anyone suggesting they sold out is an ignorant turd. Each album progressively got heavier as they went along. They never just jumped from glam to extreme metal like so many act like they did. It was a natural progression.

Thanks for your very sophisticated and mature insult.

You're welcome.

I also have only the first 4 PANTERA albums, on vinyl.

How did Pantera sell out? If anything, they evolved and invented a new sub-genre... The core of the band (dime, rex and vinnie) started out as fans of traditional metal like Judas Priest and Ozzy. They naturally got heavier over time hanging around Metallica and Slayer. Also when Phil joined, he added his influence and led them further in the heavy direction they wanted to go in. It makes perfect sense to me. Skid Row did the same thing.

The first CD I bought was their greatest hits. I may have acquired the mp3s of Cowboys before that. Between the two, that's all the Pantera I need, except that the song "Floods" isn't on the greatest hits comp, and that's a great tune. Shoulda been on there instead of one of the covers, IMO.

Though I'm lukewarm to them as a whole, "Cemetery Gates" would make my list of top ten metal songs, easy.

Pantera are one of those bands that make me go "meh". I am not a fan or a hater. I like the greatest hits album but I don't think that any album is worth the listen from beginning to end. Songs like "This Love" or "Cemetery Gates" are pretty good as is "Walk" and "Cowboys From Hell". Beyond that I really don't care.

I have never heard their 80's stuff so I can't comment there, but honestly, if I am going to listen to 90's metal I am pulling out the White Zombie.

brokentulsa wrote:

Quote :

When I swung into town (Arlington, Tx) in 1985. I bought "Projects In The Jungle" at Savvy's in Ft. Worth during a Pantera gig there. They were playng with Sweet Savage and Gypsy Blue.

Wow..I might have been at that show myself. I used to go to Savvy's myself to see alot of shows back in the day. Whatever happened to that club? Is it still around?

I moved back to Calif in 1987, Savvy's was still kickin then. Do you remeber Rascal's in Arlington ? The Bronco Bowl in Dallas had kewl shows too.

Fat Freddy wrote:

"Death Trap"

Interesting how they disowned all of their '80s albums, yet they took the riff for one of their biggest hits and the title track of their breakthrough album straight from a song they made in those days...I wonder if they did more self-plagiarism like that.

To like White Zombie and dismiss Pantera is odd considering Zombie is a lot more repetitive and simplistic. Although most people of the time liked both bands.

I loved 'Vulgar Display of Power' which was the first Pantera album I ever owned, and then bought the albums as they were released and I do like the albums but Phil's lyrics IMO got dumber and dumber as they moved forward in their career