Vivian Campbell resurrecting the Dio band?

It's mostly Joe Elliot that says that DL were never metal nor part of the NWOBHM. Phil Collen, on the other hand, has said they were and moved away from it by the time Pyromania was released (Die Hard The Hunter is still a kick ass metal track, IMHO.)

Of course DL never complained about the label (nor the Pop Metal label used on them in the late 80's) in any interviews or statements...... until metal "wasn't cool" in the 90's. DL doesn't want to be a metal band? Cool - play the music you want to play - if it sucks, I won't be buying it... but don't re-write history. They rode the NWOBHM wave until they went for a more commercial sound. I have no problems at all with their move to a more commercial hard rock/pop metal sound.

At least Collen was truthful about it, where as Elliot is the one that gets his panties in a bunch when it is mentioned. They were a metal band, On Through The Night is a great NWOBHM release... they started to move away from it on High and Dry, Pryomania has it metal moments and Hysteria is a hard rock/pop metal album (and a damn good one at that.)

thejokeriv wrote:

Of course DL never complained about the label (nor the Pop Metal label used on them in the late 80's) in any interviews or statements...... until metal "wasn't cool" in the 90's. DL doesn't want to be a metal band? Cool - play the music you want to play - if it sucks, I won't be buying it... but don't re-write history. They rode the NWOBHM wave until they went for a more commercial sound. I have no problems at all with their move to a more commercial hard rock/pop metal sound.

At least Collen was truthful about it, where as Elliot is the one that gets his panties in a bunch when it is mentioned. They were a metal band,

I will never stop arguing this.  

Point 1 - #1- they were not the only band to do that. #2 - from their very beginnings in the 70s, the wanted to be a hit, radio oriented rock band like Queen, Mott, etc. Everyone claims OTTN is "NWOBHM" (another journalist-coined BS term) but if you listen to it, you can hear the attempts at Queen-like harmonies and pop leanings..."Hello, America" & "Rock Brigade" being the most obvious. Put that album up against any Maiden, Saxon or Diamond Head album and it's glaringly obvious they're not the same thing. "NWOBHM" is a tag just like "Grunge" to attempt to classify a musical surge out of a small area regardless of whether or not it fits. If Hendrix had debuted in the 90s, he'd be "Grunge" just because he was from Seattle. DL came out of England in '79 (formed in like '77) so of course they have to be "NWOBHM"....BS.

Point 2 - Simply going along and doing your thing is not an example of "riding" anything. Example: my band LINE OF FIRE is NOT a Metal band. But, we get coverage from Metal websites, radio shows, blogs, etc right along side Katatonia and In Flames. That does NOT make us Metal any more than DL being mentioned along side Maiden and Diamond Head makes them Metal. I don't go out of my way to say "Hey, we're not Metal!!" but I'm just doing my thing and if some Metal site wants to cover us, fine. If they come right out and ask, of course we're not Metal...but THEY are the ones choosing to cover LOF...make sense?

Point 3 - Phil is not being "truthful" in the sense that he's countering Joe's perceived "untruthfulness". Phil joined a band that was already 6 years old. He was not there when the sound was coming together. He was not part of the band's inception or understanding of why they formed. He's not so much offering "truth" as much as a "perspective". Joe, on the other hand, knows what DL is and is not because he helped form the band. He knows what the intent was. The pop melodies/harmonies were there from the beginning...that's what they wanted. They just had to get better at it to achieve their overall goal, which was commercial chart success. They didn't want to be some underground, Heavy Metal band with "street cred"...they wanted to be pop stars w/ guitars.

The insinuation that DL was formed to simply jump on the NWOBHM bandwagon then suddenly "sell out" later on is just wrong. DL was "NWOBHM" by association only (I've heard some people include AC/DC as well, which is also wrong). They started the band because they wanted to emulate their glam-rock, radio-smash heroes...they wanted the most commercial success possible...they just had to learn how to get better at it as they went to get it. So OTTN and HnD were harder edged...so what? That doesn't necessarily make them "Heavy Metal".

Maiden, Saxon, Priest, Diamond Head...that's NWOBHM or Heavy Metal...Def Leppard is not.

That said, LOADS of bands got called Heavy Metal back then...Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Nugent, Thin Lizzy, Van Halen, AC/DC, Y&T...but if one of them says "we were never Heavy Metal" nobody really bats an eye. But if someone in Def Leppard says "we were never Heavy Metal" suddenly they're poser sell-out losers.

I think you're all just jealous.

I consider Def Leppard a metal band, more because that is the way they were labeled then what they actually sound like. I cannot disagree that their sound was very different then Iron Maiden, but directly or indirectly these guys are responsible for the sound of the pop/hair metal explosion of the 80's.

In early interviews it was clear that some members of the band did identity themselves as a metal band, the book written by David Fricke, called 'Animal Instinct' which I happen to own, a few of the members identity their band as a metal band.

Whether Def Leppard was ever a metal band, the point is moot. We as listeners of Hard Rock/Heavy Metal music have conditioned ourselves over the years (and in some cases decades) to decide what gets lumped into what genre. It's like trying to convince someone what beauty is, when we know that beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.

With that being said, what CANNOT be argued, is Joe Elliott and his blatant attempts at being a revisionist historian. The guy rubs me wrong, due to the fact that he likes to lump he and his band into a genre, when it suits him. If It's cool, then put myself and my band in it, but when it's not cool, then I will show you how big of a hypocrite I can be...

I've never had a problem with the likes of Lemmy, Ritchie Blackmore, or Jimmy Page stating that they never considered their bands metal, BECAUSE they also don't feel like they have to take pot shots at the genre, whereas Joe has made it career of this over the years. I've always felt like Joe Elliott comes off as such a sanctimonious prick, and I love how he always tries to be the smartest guy in the room. It was during the Sweden Rock interview from 2008, when he got himself in hot water with Brett Michaels, a journalist asked him about the NWOBHM movement and Def Leppard's role. Joe, basically denigrated the whole movement, stating that the only important band to come out of the NWOBHM was Iron Maiden, the rest was crap. He also stated that the band was only lumped in that movement, because Geoff Barton included them in it, and that they were no closer to being heavy metal, then that of a band like Spandau Ballet and Duran Duran.

Let's rewind things back some 25 years prior. I remember watching an interview recently (YouTube) Joe Elliott did back in 1983 or 84 with MTV, where he stated that Def Leppard were closer to that of Duran Duran then that of Black Sabbath. First off, horrible analogy, as most metal bands don't sound like Black Sabbath. Seriously Joe, you need a publicist and a fact checker. Joe, would be a great politician, because he is a wonderful flip flopper. I guarantee you at some point Joe will convince us that Def Leppard were RAP pioneers...

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With that being said, what CANNOT be argued, is Joe Elliott and his blatant attempts at being a revisionist historian. The guy rubs me wrong, due to the fact that he likes to lump he and his band into a genre, when it suits him. If It's cool, then put myself and my band in it, but when it's not cool, then I will show you how big of a hypocrite I can be...

Joe Elliot, in the 80s, was saying they were not "pop Metal" citing bands like Poison, Warrant, etc and stating "we're not that" and "that's not what we are" even back then...I saw that on MTV myself.

He's not "revising" anything...he's saying what he always said. Joe Elliot has been fighting the "metal" tag SINCE the late 80s.

But you are right in this:

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Whether Def Leppard was ever a metal band, the point is moot. We as listeners of Hard Rock/Heavy Metal music have conditioned ourselves over the years (and in some cases decades) to decide what gets lumped into what genre. It's like trying to convince someone what beauty is, when we know that beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

With that being said, what CANNOT be argued, is Joe Elliott and his blatant attempts at being a revisionist historian. The guy rubs me wrong, due to the fact that he likes to lump he and his band into a genre, when it suits him. If It's cool, then put myself and my band in it, but when it's not cool, then I will show you how big of a hypocrite I can be...

Joe Elliot, in the 80s, was saying they were not "pop Metal" citing bands like Poison, Warrant, etc and stating "we're not that" and "that's not what we are" even back then...I saw that on MTV myself.

He's not "revising" anything...he's saying what he always said. Joe Elliot has been fighting the "metal" tag SINCE the late 80's.

Go to the 2:30 mark of this interview. I don't have a problem with people being opportunists to some extent, but Joe must seriously have a terrible memory, as it pertains to where Def Leppard fit into the music scene back in 1983, and the niche he was trying to create for his band to become the mainstream success they were to that point and beyond. To Rick Savage's credit, he states that Def Leppard aren't a heavy metal band, which ISN'T my argument. Listen to where Joe chimes in after Rick gives his initial thoughts on the band (and bands like Journey and Foreigner). My argument is with Joe and using the metal brand to help push the Def Leppard brand forward, but then in the same breath in certain interviews that same year, bewildered at the notion when Def Leppard are lumped into the metal genre. To reiterate, I'm not arguing about whether Def Leppard was ever a metal band or not, but I'm simply pointing out that Joe Elliott is very self-serving, and he's the ultimate opportunist. Not only has he always been the ultimate opportunist, but he seems to always take enjoyment in denigrating a movement or scene, like he did with the NWOBHM movement, during the 2008 Sweden Rock press conference.

In fact, he called Witchfynde rubbish from the NWOBHM and the scene crap. By the way, Witchfynde's debut album is phenomenal. Maybe the scene didn't mass produce a lot of formidable acts, who struck huge record deals and a fortune to go along with it, but that movement was important from an inspirational level for many bands in the U.S, namely Metallica, Megadeth, and a slew of other bands. Joe Elliott is no Axl Rose or Geoff Tate, but I find the guy to be beyond egotistical and like I said before, he's a flip flopper, and should think about becoming a politician. He would fit in perfectly in that arena...

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I'm simply pointing out that Joe Elliott is very self-serving, and he's the ultimate opportunist.

Rock star, lead singer......hello?

  

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

I'm simply pointing out that Joe Elliott is very self-serving, and he's the ultimate opportunist.

Rock star, lead singer......hello?

  

I get that you find those adjectives I used to describe Joe Elliott to be beyond hilarious. I hated using the word egotistical as well, regarding my thoughts about Joe Elliott, due to the fact that the list is long among Joe's peers. My contention has been, I get sick of the guy using a platform, and then rallying against that same platform, whether it be in 1983, 2008 or everywhere else in between. It's beyond hypocritical and Joe's the ultimate politician! I've never seen a guy who likes to butter up to a scene, and then distance himself so quickly from that same scene, and it's been this way for twenty-five plus years.

This is the most fascinating thread on Vivian Campbell I've ever read.  

S.D. wrote:

This is the most fascinating thread on Vivian Campbell I've ever read.   

oh that guy, wasn't he in Dio or something like that?

S.D. wrote:

This is the most fascinating thread on Vivian Campbell I've ever read.   

That's so funny that you stated this, because, I had to double check whether or not I posted this in the right thread after seeing the title prior to my first response (page 6). I actually read through this thread yesterday, and left it up on my screen to respond today. I guess it wouldn't be the first time a thread took a 180 degree turn.

I'll try and return the discussion back towards Vivian...

I love Vivian and his guitar playing on those first three DIO records, but my allegiance is/was with Ronnie. I wasn't too keen on Vivian getting this project going. For years, Vivian said negative things about the music they wrote together, his time in the band, etc... I suppose one can have a change of heart, but how convenient; he waits until after Ronnie passes to have this sudden change of heart. Obviously this is not a cash grab, since Vivian pulls in a healthy paycheck with Def Leppard, but it seems like a cheap way of trying to ingratiate himself with those fans who probably haven't cared about this guy in years.

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

This is the most fascinating thread on Vivian Campbell I've ever read.   

oh that guy, wasn't he in Dio or something like that?

I think he was one of the guitar players Coverdale kicked out of Whitesnake for now being "good enough"

After Dio fired Campbell, it seems Viv Campbell was at loose ends. First he joined Riverdogs, not a bad band that made one album that was lumped with the metal genre, but they were not a metal band. Next he formed a supergroup with Lou Gramm of Foreigner called Shadowking, which is pretty damn good AOR band, but that lasted one album.

Somewhere along the way, or somewhere inbetween he was in Whitesnake, before he was canned.

None of his post-Dio music projects sound remotely like Dio, also the bad blood between the two men, I am surprised he formed this side band paying tribute to a time in his life, he did not look back fondly on.

Maybe the fact that both men have experienced cancer has caused Viv to look on that time slightly differently. Ronnie isn't around to bury the hatchet with and this might just be his way of looking past the bad blood and celebrating the fact that they made some fantastic music together.

That's what I'd like to think is behind it anyway.

Boris2008 wrote:

Maybe the fact that both men have experienced cancer has caused Viv to look on that time slightly differently. Ronnie isn't around to bury the hatchet with and this might just be his way of looking past the bad blood and celebrating the fact that they made some fantastic music together.

That's what I'd like to think is behind it anyway.

I am sure Dio's passing and the number years it has been since he was a member of the band, have helped soften his view of that era of his career

manny wrote:

After Dio fired Campbell, it seems Viv Campbell was at loose ends. First he joined Riverdogs,  not a bad band that made one album that was lumped with the metal genre, but they were not a metal band. Next he formed a supergroup with Lou Gramm of Foreigner called Shadowking, which is pretty damn good AOR band,  but that lasted one album.

Somewhere along the way, or somewhere inbetween he was in Whitesnake, before he was canned.

None of his post-Dio music projects sound remotely like Dio, also the bad blood between the two men, I am surprised he formed this side band paying tribute to a time in his life, he did not look back fondly on.

I really liked that Riverdogs cd. A friend of mine used to have it and we listened to it quite a bit. I wish I had that one. The Shadowking release I vaguely remember hearing about but I'm not sure if I ever heard anything off it.

The "Last In Line" project consists of the entire band minus the singer. Why not do this while Ronnie was alive, Ronnie would have had a fit. Does it seem a bit funny that this doesn't happen until Ronnie passes, yes and the timing is certainly suspect. I've tried to read up on what happened and from what I've been able to piece together, it wasn't good. Viv had a good run with Dio and Dio had a good run with Viv. It didn't end well and it seems neither could get past it. This isn't just one or two members of the band Dio, but everyone except Ronnie. Ronnie always said Dio was a band and not a Ronnie James Dio solo project, which is kind of hard to reconcile with the numerous lineup changes over the years and the willingness to put the "band" on hold when Tony called. So was it a band or Ronnie's solo thing. I don't really understand why Viv is doing this completely, but I guess I don't mind. I think a better idea I think would have been for them to record an album of original material and tour playing songs off the previous albums they recorded together.

manny wrote:

After Dio fired Campbell, it seems Viv Campbell was at loose ends. First he joined Riverdogs,  not a bad band that made one album that was lumped with the metal genre, but they were not a metal band. Next he formed a supergroup with Lou Gramm of Foreigner called Shadowking, which is pretty damn good AOR band,  but that lasted one album.

Somewhere along the way, or somewhere inbetween he was in Whitesnake, before he was canned.

He was in Whitesnake before he was in Riverdogs or Shadow King, but he never recorded with them...he also played on Lou Gramm's solo album 'Long Hard Look'...

...between Journey, Foreigner and Judas Priest and Iron Maiden...we fall somewhere in between the two.

If you must be called heavy metal, what it's like is Hard Rock plus...it's got a bit more melody so they check you out.

Doesn't seem like they were 'denying' the heavy metal tag to me but saying they are somewhere between melodic hard rock and heavy metal. In fact, that's what those early albums are.

Any yes, they are still part of the NWOBHM movement. No they don't sound like Diamond Head and Maiden, but then neither did Raven sound like Diamond Head sound like Tygers of Pan Tang sound like Venom, etc. etc. It was just a new musical movement coming out of Britain in the late 70's and early 80's. It wasn't disco or punk, which were the popular forms of music at the time. Heavy Metal was proclaimed as dead by 1980, but England had a bunch of bands starting this new heavy metal movement. That Leppard now denies being part of that musical movement is pathetic IMO.

journeyman wrote:

The "Last In Line" project consists of the entire band minus the singer. Why not do this while Ronnie was alive, Ronnie would have had a fit. Does it seem a bit funny that this doesn't happen until Ronnie passes, yes and the timing is certainly suspect. I've tried to read up on what happened and from what I've been able to piece together, it wasn't good. Viv had a good run with Dio and Dio had a good run with Viv. It didn't end well and it seems neither could get past it.  This isn't just one or two members of the band Dio, but everyone except Ronnie. Ronnie always said Dio was a band and not a Ronnie James Dio solo project, which is kind of hard to reconcile with the numerous lineup changes over the years and the willingness to put the "band" on hold when Tony called. So was it a band or Ronnie's solo thing. I don't really understand why Viv is doing this completely, but I guess I don't mind. I think a better idea I think would have been for them to record an album of original material and tour playing songs off the previous albums they recorded together.

It's not suspect at all. Dio passed away and this band wants to keep the music that they were very much a part of alive. More power to 'em.  

Elliot is the one who is confusing. I saw them on the tour after Rick Allen lost his arm and Joe was on stage yelling at everyone they were there to take the metal crown back from Ratt.
I don't care much but like I said, don't know why he fights it so much.

ultmetal wrote:

It's not suspect at all. Dio passed away and this band wants to keep the music that they were very much a part of alive. More power to 'em.  

It is alive every time I put Holy Diver on, and what a fine album it is.

Just bought Dio at Donington (83, 87) and wow, I wish I would have seen them back in 83. Well, at least I have this.

journeyman wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

It's not suspect at all. Dio passed away and this band wants to keep the music that they were very much a part of alive. More power to 'em.  

It is alive every time I put Holy Diver on, and what a fine album it is.

Just bought Dio at Donington (83, 87) and wow, I wish I would have seen them back in 83. Well, at least I have this.

I saw the original band in '83 & '84 in Philadelphia. (Oddly enough, both time with Twisted Sister opening.) Great performances.

journeyman wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

It's not suspect at all. Dio passed away and this band wants to keep the music that they were very much a part of alive. More power to 'em.  

It is alive every time I put Holy Diver on, and what a fine album it is.

Just bought Dio at Donington (83, 87) and wow, I wish I would have seen them back in 83. Well, at least I have this.

I was at the '87 show but I was very very drunk!  

To answer the three main questions of this thread

I'm cool with it
No
Yes