State of the Scene...

It's like everything else that requires exchange of money is OK, and that doesn't need to be gotten rid of, or downgraded, and we can spend spend spend spend on useless things we don't need or that bring us annoyance, but let's choke out a lot of stuff that really makes life worthwhile, in the arts.

I wonder with the advancement in technology and the younger generation not caring too much about physical cd's, where the whole music industry will be by 2015 and specially 2020.

Given the current trends, my prediction is that by 2020 most metal music will be made by dedicated amateurs.

("Amateurs" in that they won't make any money from being in a band, and have no intention or illusions of trying to do so.)

Most don't make any money from being in a band anyway and know it can never happen, so we're already there.

Pelata wrote a great article about the state of the scene. I'll have to see if I can find the link.

first of all,yo chaz! its sherri(aka metalmemom)!
I didnt know you were here. my feeling is this. i think it sad so many want to obtain a freedownload. this is where a myspace comes in handy. A small sampling of that artist. I am a promotional manager and had the pleasure of working with a great christian power metal band. I watched them in the practice hall and watched the band thru 11 mixes of their debut cd! trying to find a balance btw family and band was often hard. blood, sweat and tears! I now work with a thrash band..some promoters are not understanding that to plan a weekend in nj/pa that the band needs a gig on fri and on sat pm. Its not about the band making money. Its about just makin enough to somewhat cover expenses. I am very much against venue asking for a musician to sell a certain amount of tix.my feeling and maybe its selfish.but its just like a job.if you show up and put out your best effort at the end of the week;you get paid! a musician is no different!
sherri

MetalChaz wrote:

I have been growing increasingly concerned for the life and future of the metal scene and especially the CM scene recently. First of all it is bad enough that it is nearly impossable to make much if any profit from this bussiness which already puts pressure on band members who have fammilies to take care of. Now however well known bands are being asked to PAY money to have the privilage to stand on a stage and to play for free. Therefore a band who is making NO profit is asked to travel a long distance thus paying for thier own gas. Pay for anywhere between 2 to 4 hotel rooms, feed themselves on the trip and now PAY TO PLAY!!! And ALL of this is being taken out of the 9 to 5 paychecks that feed the fammilies of these band members.

In 2004 my band Biogenesis played Sonshine festival and we were paid 500 dollars for our performance. We didnt make much of a profit though as much of the money went towards covering our expenses to get there. This I can live with. However I am warning you guys now as an artist and as a fan of the Metal scene. If this is where we are headed in the future then we are looking at the beginning of the end of the scene that we all love.

We are already facing a HUGE loss in CD sales due to free downloading and illegal copying of the very hard work of thousands of bands. That was bad enough and now this is starting to happen. I know a handfull of well known musicians that many of you love and a few of them recewntly had even expressed to me that they are almost ready to give up. Please pray about this...Its NOT about bands making money its about AT LEAST covering bassic travel expenses etc so we can continiue this ministry without breaking our backs!

Amen...I made it a personal policy of mine to never pay to play...no matter what. If I miss out on "opportunities" because of it then so be it.

Can anyone tell me if there is a big shift to legal downloads and how does that translate to the artist making money? Seriously, it's hard for me to buy many cd's for $14-16 dollars and $8 downloads are looking attractive. It's not how I want it but my pocketbook dictates it.

I don't think many artists these days make much money from legal downloads ... certainly not enough to compensate for lost CD sales.

If the music industry wasn't so greedy and overpricing albums in the first place then maybe it wouldn't have been such a backlash with illegal downloading. Another thing is people seem to be getting too lazy to drive to a actual record store to buy a physical copy of an album. It would help though if cd pricing were brought down more to a reasonable price since the cost to make the cd is nowhere near as much as they charge for it. That being said i will always continue to buy cds as long as they are available because i like having the total package (lyrics, art etc...)

I think the main thing that the music industry had going for it during the "album" days is that you were pretty much forced to buy 10x as much product as you wanted if you only knew you liked one song on an album. You had to buy the whole album, and that influenced people to listen to the rest of the album instead of just the one single they had been exposed to from radio/MTV. This helps contribute to people liking more songs and becoming a bigger fan of the artist and then making them want to go see the band live.

It just sucks that both the "music industry" and the consumers both want to be greedy... screwing the bands out of their compensation.

Troublezone wrote:

It just sucks that both the "music industry" and the consumers both want to be greedy... screwing the bands out of their compensation.

Well said.

It's the "fans" as much as the labels.

I'm shocked typically by how little most 'laypeople' really know or understand about music. I understand it is only 'entertainment' and shouldn't require a degree, but wow. I can split them up into two groups: the first group who retains this strange attitude a lot of older music fans have, where they assume if you simply have a CD out, you're as rich & famous as Led Zeppelin (being a musician..the whole 'when you're famous'/'why don't you make any money' spiel), and that no other music exists or is worth listening to besides what TV or radio has exposed them to. The second group is the group that claims to not hear any difference between a CD and a low quality mp3, and complains about how expensive CD's and other band related things are, even though they are typically middle-class and white and waste their money on everything else, and justify not supporting the band because 'teh record companiez is teh evulllss'. I would like everybody in the country who is interested in music to take a course on the thankless job we do as a passion; what it takes to write and perform, what it takes to write and perform GOOD, the money to get gear to SOUND good, learning how to record, preparing to record and the headache of that, the money spent if you buy recording equipment or pay a studio either or, negotiating and creating artwork, getting the CD pressed..all the $$$$ that goes into that and helps graphic designers and engineers and others keep jobs, and how much money - especially for indie bands - comes out of the bands' own pockets, just for someone to have zero courtesy in their spending or listening (playing it for 30 seconds and deciding it sucks) habits. Everything is pulling teeth, from promoting to spending to touring. It isn't even about a band making money - although it's a nice reward - and especially with the kind of music we typically like, you're a fool if you go into this expecting $$$$. I never did. I just want to be able to do this and have the necessary people there to help me do it. It's about the love of the art and that's why like-minded people love it as well. You gotta vote with your wallet with everything else in life...why is something enriching to your down time and relaxing time drastically different?

Quote :

write and perform GOOD

WELL.


Good post.

To Orion......DITTO!!! SPOT ON

orion,very well put! exactly what i was explaining in my post.thank you as a musican telling your side.100% in your corner w/ this.i mean,like you said if you dont love with a passion your music and what you do..you are spinning your wheels.thats why i am so opposed to downloads for free and venues/promoters asking bands for money to perform..very great post.

AWESOME POST ORION!

I remember reading an article in HMM and Guy Ritter saying they made nothing (like a $1000) for an entire tour back with either STB or PS (we're talking 20 years ago) and wanting Ted and the others to take the label to court because he KNEW it wasn't right, but they didn't want to. My point is I don't know if we can say it’s a younger generation issue (downloading... illegal stuff, not caring about CD's) more than it's a label/promoter greed issue.

I think bands should become private corporations/companies. Work your tail off saving every dime you can and then incorporate, buy your own sound equipment, hire a marketing promotions employee (or do it yourself), book, plan and organize your own tours (where the money is). And then execute. Obviously it would take money but it seems it could be done slowly, step by step. Why not cut out the middlemen completely? If you have your own funding, the big arenas and concert venues like one good check as well as the other. I'm sure it's not as simple as I state it and obviously there has to be some sort of distribution avenue in place. But I know there is a way to change it.

I don't understand why any of you have to apologize for wanting to make money or say, "just brake even" for your passion. To me they should be getting rich and making money for such effort, skill and creativity. I understand you do it because its your passion but there is no shame in wanting to make money from that!? Your not a sellout because you make a profit? Same as a professional athlete or anything else. But anything not "main stream" is going to require a different strategy than just hoping to get noticed and sign with a label and hope for a deal. That is naive.

I still buy cds. I do not like MP3s just because they are much lower quality and if I buy an MP3 album I feel like I have not paid for anything...just space on my hard drive that I can delete at any time. now if there is a bootleg live show that I am looking for and is available as an mp3 well that is a different story.

Yeah man I wish that it still worked that way. Unfourtunatley in my case I didnt get noticed untill 2001 and even by then it was next to impossable to make money from being in a metal band. So....we are reallistic and we unhappilu accept the facts and we choose to carry on our passion inspite of this. However being told u must pay for the right to play is actually an insult to me personally.

Orion and Cliffy.......You guys NEED to post about this on the CMR! I posted this same thread overthere as well. We got some defenders of the pay to play overthere lol Jump in and help a brother out! lol

sob! and not little ol me! chaz you wound me! lol! thought i brought up good points too!

lol yes you did indeed and yeah I could use yer help overthere too lol

Quote :

even though they are typically middle-class and white and waste their money on everything else,

Ok, that sounds just a tad harsh. The economy is the suckage and i'm making choices where my little bit of discretionary money goes. My point was, I can have more music if I buy downloads though I really don't want to and that's why I asked if bands get the money, I want them too. I buy albums from Retroactive because I totally support what Matt is doing there and I want it to succeed. It sucks that bands can't make a living doing what they love, I wish they could. I wish I could make a living doing the job I love but I also can't. Reality is, most people do jobs they don't love so they can do some things they enjoy.
The harsh reality is: people can spend their money on entertainment where they will and music has taken a huge hit. The advent of everything being in the home, video games, computers, cell phones, etc. makes music just one form of entertainment vying for attention. It was easier when I didn't spend money on my computer, my dvd player, and all that goes with it to have more cash for music.
Another thought. Movies are downloaded illegally too but Hollywood doesn't seem as affected. Why is that? Have they figured something out that music could learn from?
I'm not angry, it's just my point of view.