U.S/North American metal scene and E.U. metal scene and the international scene

OK guys I'm curious what are the similarities and differences between U.S/North American metal scene and E.U. metal scene and the international scene. I know Ultmetal have toured in Europe and I know we have a few Europeans and I believe we have a few people in countries that are in far away lands!

So I'm curious what do you guys see as the main difference and what are some similarities?

I guess I'll get the ball rolling with an international perspective.

South Africa has quite a thriving metal scene, although it's dominated by the more extreme forms of metal. There are some exceptions, but the most part it's thrash, death, black, and metalcore (which is really frustrating for someone like me who doesn't like those genres).

So I guess the biggest difference is that we don't have the traditional/power metal bands that the US or Europe has. This would also apply to other African countries, which don't have as many bands as South Africa, but they do tend to be extreme ones as well.

There is no scene worth mentioning here I'd say we had a bunch of valueable soviet heavy/thrash, but thats aboiut it. Classic metal genres are represnted by bands mostly sounding like a 3rd-tier copies of their western counterparts, and within modern metal realm there is some hope, probably, but I personally can't name more than a couple of bands worthy of international recognition. And one of them plays transcore, so...

I'm old. Outside of what I read/see on this forum I'm pretty clueless about what's going on in any "scene."

I don't know if you can call it a "scene" in Finland as heavy metal is pretty much mainstream. You see it and hear it everywhere, and in Helsinki there's a club in every other street corner having live shows, or a bar that exclusively plays heavy metal / hard rock.

A ton of bands, and a ton of fans. Just go hang out and you'll meet metal fans. Young ones and old ones, just witness all the band shirts and long hairs. And a lot of them have their own bands. You'd think it'd be easy to get gigs, but there's a little bit of over-saturation because of the sheer volume of bands per capita.

As for genres, the more melodic ones (hair, power, old-school) get played more on tv and radio, but extreme metal has fans too. Usually younger people.

I think the 90s were a bit rougher, but it's been going pretty strong since. Metal never really left, but it made a comeback to mainstream around 2000 or so, and it hasn't left since, though maybe not quite as exciting now as it was 15 years ago with all those Finnish bands breaking out also internationally (Nightwish, Bodom, Sentenced, Norther, HIM, Sonata Arctica, Lordi, Apocalyptica, Amorphis, 69 Eyes, Stratovarius etc). It's actually pretty hard to make it playing something other than heavy metal. If you're a musician, the other option is to be a backing musician in a schlager band and tour 300 days a year.

Personally, the whole Clutch (I know this isn't a metal band) inspired brand of band are massive around Wales. People like the party vibe. I'm personally have been quite taken by it for years. Doom Metal and heavy rock also do OK. Lots of fans, but nobody seems to talk about it though.

The UK scene in general seems to have died a little. I live and work near Cardiff. I spent about 10 years going to the 'Legendary TJ's' 2/3 nights a week, but recently, since it's closure, nothing much has touched it. It's a bit of a damp squid. I think there is about one good show I want to goto a year, but, can't really be arsed any more.

Death Metal/Black Metal seems to be the underground band of choice, or, metallic hardcore e.g. Madball/Hatebreed. It's hard to say past that, most new bands just want to make money.

In short, the UK seems to have a massive mix on things, but nothing specific you could call 'standard' to any musical format e.g. Power Metal, Thrash, Glam - we can do lots of things, but unless focused, a little bit of a average playing field.

I have no clue if the US has a scene or not. It seems like we have two distinct groups of "metalheads". The teen to 20-ish screamo kids with their sleeve tats & hipster glasses who think metal started with Norma Jean. Then there are the 40-50 year old sad sacks with their patch vests & thinning long hair who still think Megadeth are cool.

If I see either group gathering, I head in the opposite direction.

For me in So Cal there are kinda like three dominate groups there are other groups mixed into that as well but here's what I kinda see at shows the most.

the non-"trendy" metalheads: These are the guys who you will see at a an Accept show and then at a Cannibal Corpse show type of people who kinda like a lot of different stuff. These guys I usually see banging their heads.

Thrashers: MOSH!!! Yah, they will only show up to these type of shows and I usually don't see em at other shows.

KVLT: TOO TRUE FOR YOU! No need to explain.

Also, I noticed though moshing is a big thing in North America rather than in Europe it's more about Headbanging. I think the U.S scene at times can be clicky not sure if this is true for everyone though.

I love the metal fans who just turn up to anything with a guitar and a good song. Personally, it's the way forward. Someone who likes Poison to Disgorge is my friend any-day!

I'm going to Scotland next year (living in Wales), I'm keen to see what their metal scene is like. It's been over 120 years since I last went. Back in the 80s, it was good Thrash Metal in that part of the world.

Heavy metal is somewhat persecuted around here. Bands and fans usually keep a low profile.

Concerts are rare, gigs limited to certain venues.

there is lots of frustration and anger. That is why thrash and grindcore dominate the scene. A couple of bands playing symphonic black metal also made their entry during the last couple of years.

It is hard being into the metal scene here.

Dr8breed74 wrote:

I'm going to Scotland next year (living in Wales), I'm keen to see what their metal scene is like.  It's been over 120 years since I last went.  Back in the 80s, it was good Thrash Metal in that part of the world.

The 1880's?

haha, I think it's a general rule, we might be talking about the 1980s, but, wow, what was their music scene like in the 1880s ;-)

Dr8breed74 wrote:

I love the metal fans who just turn up to anything with a guitar and a good song.  Personally, it's the way forward.  Someone who likes Poison to Disgorge is my friend any-day!

I'm going to Scotland next year (living in Wales), I'm keen to see what their metal scene is like.  It's been over 120 years since I last went.  Back in the 80s, it was good Thrash Metal in that part of the world.

Saor is all you need to know about Scotland, they f'&king rule!!

Hey Bear - There is alot of Pagan metal in Russia, right? I have dozens of Russian albums, but they are mostly 80-90's thrash.

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Hey Bear - There is alot of Pagan metal in Russia, right?  I have dozens of Russian albums, but they are mostly 80-90's thrash.

No idea as this is not exactly what I listen to. I think some folkish stuff is somewhat developed right now, like Arkona. For instance, Stormspell has some weird Russian bands that might be called Pagan on the label. But nothing like Shah, or Aspid, or something of that caliber exists. And even those bands I guess had slightly more credit than they deserved simply for being from USSR. So I'm happily ignoring the "scene" with First Aid and Kruiz records.
The thing is, by the late 80's the plague known Russian rock spreaded out, so metal even in its heyday was not the go-to genre. And it still here, being popular. "Metalheads" usually end up with Aria and all those trash rock bands, with no intentions of going further supporting less popular genres and bands. That is my take on the problem. Again, I'm not even close to be a part of any scene, so my knowledge is limited to rumors and general observations.

I think one difference that I've noticed, is that North American metal fans don't just like the music they like personally; they have this need to judge other people and the music they like. I'm talking mostly fans online, so I might be completely off the mark here, but half the pleasure people seem to take out of music is finding bands they don't like and criticize them and their fans. This kind of culture of finding a niche or a marginal style of music you do like, and then hating all the other niches. Label everything you don't like with derogatory names like "noise, shit, mallcore, butt rock, hair metal, flower metal, cookie monster", whatever you don't like. And oh my god if that band you don't like is popular! Then you just have to let everyone know you don't like them. It could just be the amount of online trolls though that has given me this impression. But there's a lot of "haters" of bands like Metallica and Nickelback. And melodic metal, and black metal, and so on.

But, I do have a pretty good understanding of the Scandinavian, German and Balkan metal scenes, and this sort of thing is much more rare there. People aren't generally "haters". Everything around music and heavy metal is also much less serious. Except maybe the dislike towards glam metal in the Balkans - that seems to be a little bit of a thing there - the herd mentality in people I guess, and since they missed the 80's there (they used to be communist), according to them cool things only started in the 90's. But Germany and Sweden and Finland it's quite an "understanding" fanbase. Or maybe it's because people are more reserved. But you don't necessarily hear metal fans deriding entire subgenres of metal as often. If you like it, good for you. If you don't like it, good for you, too.

Music tastes don't compete. Someone says "I love Aerosmith". Just imagine how you'd reply to that if you were an Aerosmith hater.

But basically North American bands are also more serious. Not back in the day they weren't, but nowadays they are. European metal fans, nor the bands, never gave up that fun, that innocence, that metal had. But ever since grunge, it's definitely very serious business to be a metal musician in North America. They don't venture into the fun or "cheese" as much, while in Europe it's perfectly okay and whenever you record a tongue in cheek album, people get it and everyone's having a good time. Festivals are full of friendly metal fans that don't piss on each other's tastes as much. Grunge did hit Europe, but it didn't tarnish the European scene as much. Not to the point where everything beyond four guys playing their instruments, expressionless and dressed casual, is pretentious.

They tried the serious thing in Norway with black metal, and went way overboard (just like they tend to do in small countries where everyone feeds off each other) and eventually it got so serious it got ridiculous again.

Maybe it's a cultural thing where americans maybe feel the need to be "mean" and "badass" more, otherwise it's not cool or metal. European metal is about entertainment and maybe escapism and about kind of going crazy after a difficult week at work or something. Or if you fought in a war at the Balkans, then you probably don't want to hear a bunch of suburban kids acting tough and singing about whatever issues they have - they are just pretentious - you'll just blast some powerful kickass uplifting tunes that make you forget the shit you live in. Or if you live in a Swedish suburban utopia you probably can't even relate to whatever issues "serious" bands sing about, and if you did then you'd be the pretentious one.

Whatever it is, Europe has a different flavour. But even then, Europe is not homogenous enough to pinpoint a typical fan. Maybe Germany, Sweden and Finland are a bit similar. But Eastern Europe, the UK, and the Mediterranean are all completely different to each other. And all are important for heavy metal. Metal is popular in Greece from what I understand, but I've only been to the tourist resorts and can't say I saw anything related to metal there. London, too, and I haven't been outside London in the UK. I found a great record store there though.

Lari wrote:

But basically North American bands are also more serious. Not back in the day they weren't, but nowadays they are. European metal fans, nor the bands, never gave up that fun, that innocence, that metal had. But ever since grunge, it's definitely very serious business to be a metal musician in North America.

I think this illustrates that point.

The guy in that bottom panel is just tired of being judged. He'd like to be the guy in that top panel, but is too afraid of what the haters would think.

The American scene has some "cheese" but not as big as Europe. I think because the Hardcore punk scene has had an influence to have that "serious" element. I've never had anybody say in public oh this "band" sucks. When I'm talking to people that does come up though.

I have heard the midwest scene is dominated by Death metal but that's just what I heard.

That picture above is pretty much the metal core scene.

Lari wrote:

I think one difference that I've noticed, is that North American metal fans don't just like the music they like personally; they have this need to judge other people and the music they like. I'm talking mostly fans online, so I might be completely off the mark here, but half the pleasure people seem to take out of music is finding bands they don't like and criticize them and their fans. This kind of culture of finding a niche or a marginal style of music you do like, and then hating all the other niches. Label everything you don't like with derogatory names like "noise, shit, mallcore, butt rock, hair metal, flower metal, cookie monster", whatever you don't like. And oh my god if that band you don't like is popular! Then you just have to let everyone know you don't like them. It could just be the amount of online trolls though that has given me this impression. But there's a lot of "haters" of bands like Metallica and Nickelback. And melodic metal, and black metal, and so on.

This is 100% truth.

mc666 wrote:

Lari wrote:

I think one difference that I've noticed, is that North American metal fans don't just like the music they like personally; they have this need to judge other people and the music they like. I'm talking mostly fans online, so I might be completely off the mark here, but half the pleasure people seem to take out of music is finding bands they don't like and criticize them and their fans. This kind of culture of finding a niche or a marginal style of music you do like, and then hating all the other niches. Label everything you don't like with derogatory names like "noise, shit, mallcore, butt rock, hair metal, flower metal, cookie monster", whatever you don't like. And oh my god if that band you don't like is popular! Then you just have to let everyone know you don't like them. It could just be the amount of online trolls though that has given me this impression. But there's a lot of "haters" of bands like Metallica and Nickelback. And melodic metal, and black metal, and so on.

This is 100% truth.

+2



Yeah I'm older but I like a lot of different types of metal.... but I also realize that it ultimately is to each their own... Even when I was writing reviews.... if it was good it was good... whether I liked the genre or not and ultimately if it was good I ended up liking the artist even if it wasn't my usual cup o'tea.... people can be so intolerant of other peoples tolerance.....

BearOnUnicycle wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Hey Bear - There is alot of Pagan metal in Russia, right?  I have dozens of Russian albums, but they are mostly 80-90's thrash.

No idea as this is not exactly what I listen to. I think some folkish stuff is somewhat developed right now, like Arkona. For instance, Stormspell has some weird Russian bands that might be called Pagan on the label. But nothing like Shah, or Aspid, or something of that caliber exists. And even those bands I guess had slightly more credit than they deserved simply for being from USSR. So I'm happily ignoring the "scene" with First Aid and Kruiz records.
The thing is, by the late 80's the plague known Russian rock spreaded out, so metal even in its heyday was not the go-to genre. And it still here, being popular. "Metalheads" usually end up with Aria and all those trash rock bands, with no intentions of going further supporting less popular genres and bands. That is my take on the problem. Again, I'm not even close to be a part of any scene, so my knowledge is limited to rumors and general observations.

Two Russian bands that I love but everyone else will hate! (including Bear)

I like both Epitimia & Skyforest. Great atmospheric moody stuff. Epitimia is a little more depressing, which I dig.

I'd definitely listen to instrumental Epitimia.

I got a little taste of the US metal scene this past Saturday night seeing Raven, Night Demon and a few other bands.

The crowd definitely skewered towards older, like 35+. I'm 43 and didn't feel out of place at all. Some older people and some younger people. I was more surprised that there were girls there. I would have figured a show like that in this little dingy bar would be a sausage-fest for sure.