Always wondered why these bands weren't "bigger"...

Y&T definitely deserved more success. What a great band.

In regards to Armored Saint.... 4 latinos from East El Lay and an Irish kid from Pasadena. Can't get more original than that ? The demographic alone is hilarious if you were in the region at that time. Nobody from So. Calif. in the eary 80's sounded like them.

I don't understand why Armored Saint and Y&T weren't bigger. Armored Saint should have been much bigger.

Y&T I think where just a few years too early - had they released :In Rock We Trust in 1988, they probably would have hit the big time...

Leviticus - First album sucked, second album was MUCH better. I think the Christian Metal fans got burnt on the first album, then they switched styles and singers on "Setting Fire To The Earth", which had a limited release in the US and was hard to find.

I think by the point the hired John and Dino Elefante to produce "Knights Of Heaven", their time had passed. Plus, the album sounded like Euro-Petra.

One band I don;t get why they didn't hit the big time was Barren Cross - they had a good record company, 2 excellent albums that received wide release on Enigma (beyond the Christian Bookstore market, about the only place you could find the original release of :Rock For The King") and they should have gone Platinum with Atomic Arena or State Of Control. The production was much, much better than most of the Christian Metal bands of the time. That one I don't get......

I think if Riot had the same sound, but were from England instead, they'd be a bit more successful.

Temple of Blood wrote:

RIOT - not commercial enough, probably not original enough either

In the late 70's they set the template for American Heavy Metal in the 80's from Thrash Metal to Pop Metal and all that lie in between (especially), can't think of anything more original than that.

The problem with Riot was is they fell between those two boom years for American Hard Rock, 1976 and 1983! Basically a no man's land unless your name was Van Halen.

ultmetal wrote:

Riot
Armored Saint
Y&T

All these band were on major labels, had the chops, the showmanship, etc. etc. yet none of them really broke out to become stadium bands on their own right.

Y&T especially had a commercial appeal that should have made them FM radio staples. They had hooks that could land a whale.

Thoughts?

All three of these bands are top favorites of mine.

I'm kinda a new fan of Y&T, but they have me quite impressed. I just ordered their first two albums a few weeks ago in fact.

As far as Armored Saint and Riot go - I was a major fan of both bands back in the 80s. I bought "Thundersteel" as a new release when I was just 11 years old. Same with "Raising Fear" by Armored Saint.

I never could figure out why more people weren't into either band. None of my friends were really into them. I was the one in fact who turned my friends on to both bands. None of us were into Y&T at the time.

Anyway - I agree completely with you. These are probably the three most underrated bands in metal-dome. Great thread topic.

The same could be said for tons and tons of NWoBHM bands, like Trespass, Hell, Apocalypse (aka Omega), Bleak House, Jameson Raid, Sparta etc. etc.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Malice

when I read this and you guys were talking about the genre fragmenting and the bands that were too hard for glam and not hard enough for thrash, the first band I thought of was Malice. I remember they had a debut album called "liscense To Kill" and came out in 1987. I loved it but my rock friends thought it was too hard edged and not "good time music" and my thrash friends thought it wasnt fast enough. Then Malice put out a wimpy follow up and then disappeared off the radar. I havent heard that album in years but I remember they had all the makings of a band ready to skyrocket. Another band that comes to mind is Wild Dogs. Same story for them as well.

King's X should have been much bigger...

Icon - Major label, big producers and great material. But unfortunatley the band could nevr keep a line-up together for more than a few months at a time.

Artch - Got great reviews, signed to Warner Bros and Metal Blade, but fumbled too long with the second album. The members were also starting familys, and by the time the second album hit the stores, grunge was soon to take over the world.

As for Leviticus, they were kinda big here in Europe. Kerrang! gave them the 5K treatment and all. But for whatever reason, they never signed a decent record deal.

kmorg wrote:

Icon - Major label, big producers and great material. But unfortunatley the band could nevr keep a line-up together for more than a few months at a time.

Great band. I have a bootleg of The School Boys which includes members of Surgical Steel and King Kobra.

thejokeriv wrote:

One band I don;t get why they didn't hit the big time was Barren Cross - they had a good record company, 2 excellent albums that received wide release on Enigma (beyond the Christian Bookstore market, about the only place you could find the original release of :Rock For The King") and they should have gone Platinum with Atomic Arena or State Of Control. The production was much, much better than most of the Christian Metal bands of the time. That one I don't get......

I know a guy who worked for Enigma in the 80s and one time I asked him that exact question about Barren Cross (i.e. "They were a f*ckin' great band! Why didn't they get a bigger push?") ... he sez by the time Enigma had signed BC, the label was in financial trouble (they had signed waaaayyyy too many bands to a bunch of its various sub-labels, and only a few of them were selling any records) so they were pouring almost all of their promotional dollars into the bands who WERE selling (i.e. Poison, Stryper, and a couple of others) to try and keep the company afloat as long as they could; this of course pretty much left everyone else on the label to wither on the vine and die. The label eventually went out of business in '89 (shortly after BC released STATE OF CONTROL).

I think alot of it has to do with Radio. Back in the day DJ's could have their own playlist and when they got new music they would play it. But when the coorperated record exs got their hands and control the DJ's lost the rights to their own playlists and had to play what the exs had.
Sucks it is that way today.

Wargod50

Fat Freddy wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

One band I don;t get why they didn't hit the big time was Barren Cross - they had a good record company, 2 excellent albums that received wide release on Enigma (beyond the Christian Bookstore market, about the only place you could find the original release of :Rock For The King") and they should have gone Platinum with Atomic Arena or State Of Control. The production was much, much better than most of the Christian Metal bands of the time. That one I don't get......

I know a guy who worked for Enigma in the 80s and one time I asked him that exact question about Barren Cross (i.e. "They were a f*ckin' great band! Why didn't they get a bigger push?") ... he sez by the time Enigma had signed BC, the label was in financial trouble (they had signed waaaayyyy too many bands to a bunch of its various sub-labels, and only a few of them were selling any records) so they were pouring almost all of their promotional dollars into the bands who WERE selling (i.e. Poison, Stryper, and a couple of others) to try and keep the company afloat as long as they could; this of course pretty much left everyone else on the label to wither on the vine and die. The label eventually went out of business in '89 (shortly after BC released STATE OF CONTROL).

That makes sense - too bad, if they had pushed the band more, they would have sold much, much better and been much bigger. I mean, Cryin' over you and imaginary music could have been huge mtv countdown hits!

Virgin Steele should've been a lot bigger. Too bad they were always in Manowar's shadow. If you ask me they're a lot better than Manowar have been for nigh on twenty years...

These were all really good bands that should have gotten a lot bigger than they did. My thought on this is it may have had something to do with their image. These guys for the most part look like regular guys and didn't come across as drag queens.

There were lots of really great bands out there at the time and it seemed all too often that the image overshadowed the talent. I was in Phoenix Arizona in 1986 and would read the music papers. So many of the ads would say "guitarist wanted for (blah, blah,blah) must have hair, image." Most really didn't care that much if you could really play.

I saw Armored Saint play with Saxon and a band called Icon. I thought it was a great show. I always thought that John Bush was at the top as far as metal/ hard rock singers. I have to say they could hold their own against Saxon who were and still are one of my favorite bands.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

King's X should have been much bigger...

Good call there. They were on a major label and even had MTV airplay. I wonder what happened?

I have said it once & I'll say it again, King's X are too good for the Kool aid drinking population to handle, their freakin' heads would explode!!! There are really too many bands to list that should be huge but are'nt for some reason. As long as great bands keep making great music I will be happy. We should really be glad more bands did'nt sell their soul for a hit.

Of course, Riot - Fire Down Under is now considered a metal classic. I received this album for Christmas back in '81, and I still listen to it on a regular basis. It's just as good now as it was then. IMO, I think losing Guy Speranza may have had a negative impact on a developing fan base, and I don't think their album covers did them any favors either.

Armored Saint March of the Saint was in constant rotation at my house back in the day, but by the time Delirious Nomad was released I was already in the Navy (San Diego CA.) and for some reason, it just didn't hit me like the first one did.

Y&T? Honestly, I didn't start listening to them until recently.

I hope that, being on the soundtrack of that Brutal Legend videogame, Brocas Helm will finally get the recognition they deserve. They're probably in my top ten of American heavy metal bands. Amazing band.

NASTY SAVAGE were another band I always thought should have had a wider appeal, especially in the U.S.

Once again, they didn't have a lot of great songs. Decent band with decent chops but nothing outstanding. It's no surprise at all that they didn't make big waves outside of FL. Probably a fun local show to go to though.

Well this how screwed the industry is. They will hold bands back so they dont compete with their bigger acts. From what I have herd thats why Riot never took off.

Scott said on his Riot page on No Life Til Metal that Riot was bigger than Def Leppard at one point. That seems kind of hard to believe nowadays.

Then again, Anthrax was once making more money than Metallica was. I recall the story of Anthrax buying a fridge for Metallica.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Once again, they didn't have a lot of great songs. Decent band with decent chops but nothing outstanding. It's no surprise at all that they didn't make big waves outside of FL. Probably a fun local show to go to though.

While I disagree with ToB about Riot, when it comes to Nasty Savage he is right on target IMO. Nasty Savage fun band to watch live but the songs where not very good. They huge following in the Tampa Bay area back in the early to mid 80's but that more had to with them local heroes and their live shows then the music.