Always wondered why these bands weren't "bigger"...

Riot
Armored Saint
Y&T

All these band were on major labels, had the chops, the showmanship, etc. etc. yet none of them really broke out to become stadium bands on their own right.

Y&T especially had a commercial appeal that should have made them FM radio staples. They had hooks that could land a whale.

Thoughts?

Two of those bands (Riot and Y&T) are top ten favorites for me. Both bands had (have) staying power, so that says something. I think for my own selfish needs, I'm glad they didn't explode and then vanish.

The most likely reason on the part of Armored Saint and Y&T would probably be record label ineptitude... neither of them were on labels that were known for hard rock acts (Armored Saint on Chrysalis, Y&T on A&M)...

Can't really comment on Riot cuz I only know one album of theirs (THUNDERSTEEL). If I'm not mistaken, though, they had a history of rampant lineup changes from one album to another so that may have played a part.

Three words: Mar-Ket-ing. The labels didn't push them the way they should have. That and just dumb luck.

For Armored Saint I always felt there were so many bands already crowding that slot late in the game. You're right, they did have it all though. Just couldn't make it through the masses unfortunately.

On the Christian spectrum, I've always wondered the same about Leviticus. Yes, they have a huge discography but I never felt they ever really held a prominent place at the top of Christian metal when the topic arrises even today. Is it location? Below par quality? Bad marketing? I was never a huge fan myself. I had the first couple but they did fade with me as well.

I thought Y and T were a little too commercial and pissed off the true metal crowd.

I always wondered why the Killer Dwarfs weren't more successful.

With LEVITICUS I think it was their vocalist on those first couple albums. Before I was really a Christian, I already had that first album, I Shall Conquer. I thought the music was ok, but I didn't like the vocalist and thought it came off as cheesy. Most of my friends felt the same way at the time. I think they had a better vocalist by their third CD, but I think by that time people just didn't give them the time of day. They also were never really one a big label, that I can remember.

Armored Saint always struck me as a good band that just wasn't in the right niche at the right time. They were too heavy for the mainstream glam scene, but they were too traditional in their sound compared to the thrash metal scene that was ascendant in the mid-80s. Riot might have also been caught in this squeeze.

sheets wrote:

Armored Saint always struck me as a good band that just wasn't in the right niche at the right time. They were too heavy for the mainstream glam scene, but they were too traditional in their sound compared to the thrash metal scene that was ascendant in the mid-80s. Riot might have also been caught in this squeeze.

Haha, get outta my head, while you were posting that I was typing up virtually the same thing. They were definitely victims of the "fragmenting" of the metal audience around that time (I also mentioned this phenomenon in the Accept thread the other day). By the mid 80s (at least in the US), the line was in the sand, kids were either into thrash metal or hair metal/c*ck rock. Straight up traditional metal bands like Armored Saint, who were too heavy for the hair crowd but not fast enough for the thrash crowd got ignored.
Exceptions would be the "big gun" bands like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest who already had a pretty decent sized fan base before the "fragmenting" started, so they were able to hold their own (for a few more years anyway)... but if you were a young band just starting out that didn't fit into a certain pigeonhole, you were pretty much doomed to remain "underground" from the get-go.

Gothic Slam-Why wasnt this band bigger? They had an album out at the height of Thrash in 89 on a major label.They even had some MTV exposure for Who Died and Made you God? I agree with Nazgul,it all has to do with the way the label marketed these bands.

ultmetal wrote:

With LEVITICUS I think it was their vocalist on those first couple albums. Before I was really a Christian, I already had that first album, I Shall Conquer. I thought the music was ok, but I didn't like the vocalist and thought it came off as cheesy. Most of my friends felt the same way at the time. I think they had a better vocalist by their third CD, but I think by that time people just didn't give them the time of day.

Boy, I think you just hit the nail on the head for me too. I just never got "impressed".

Back in the day there was almost an unwritten rule that if you were in a hard rock/metal band signed to either Atlantic or MCA (aka "Musician's Cemetary of America") you were dead on arrival... both of those labels killed a LOT of bands. Atlantic at one time had Loudness, Raven, and Malice on their roster, just to name a few, and MCA had Crimson Glory, Bang Tango, Lillian Axe, Keel, and tons of other pretty decent bands that never broke thru to more than B or C level...

In the case of Riot, in some ways Riot where ahead of their time, when their first album was released in 1977/78 they were considered too heavy, which seems laughable nowadays. Also Riot did not belong any type of scene and when metal hit big in 1980, they did not seem to fit in with any of the bands that broke out huge.

Armored Saint is exactly what FF stated, a tradition metal band in a time when you had to be either thrash or pop/hair metal band.

Y & T I think would have made a bigger commerical impact if that had stuck to their guns, image wise and not try to go glam. Y & T where making major inroads in the early 80's with albums such as 'Mean Streak' and 'In Rock We Trust' but they started going for more glam image. Some guys can pull off this look, Y & T just looked like linebackers where women's clothing.

ultmetal wrote:

With LEVITICUS I think it was their vocalist on those first couple albums. Before I was really a Christian, I already had that first album, I Shall Conquer. I thought the music was ok, but I didn't like the vocalist and thought it came off as cheesy. Most of my friends felt the same way at the time. I think they had a better vocalist by their third CD, but I think by that time people just didn't give them the time of day. They also were never really one a big label, that I can remember.

Not sure why I'm the only one, but I quite liked Hakan's vocals on the 1st 2 albums - I thought they had a nice "girth" to them, and the accent just made it more entertaining to listen to

But yeah, Terry Haw's voice is head & shooulders above Hakan's, obviously. I never thought Peo Pettersson was all that great, but he was a solid singer.

MetalFRO wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

With LEVITICUS I think it was their vocalist on those first couple albums. Before I was really a Christian, I already had that first album, I Shall Conquer. I thought the music was ok, but I didn't like the vocalist and thought it came off as cheesy. Most of my friends felt the same way at the time. I think they had a better vocalist by their third CD, but I think by that time people just didn't give them the time of day. They also were never really one a big label, that I can remember.

I thought they had a nice "girth" to them,

**gag reflex**

Riot hit too early AND too late.

They had broken up by the time 1984 rolled around...then were on hiatus until Thundersteel was released 4 years later. So they missed the early slot (and weren't easily marketable because they had no gimmick)...and then they were too late to the party once Thundersteel came out.

They also switched labels several times which didn't help matters.

good point detuned on Riot, it was a matter of timing and Riot was a great band but had no real image or gimmick that made stand out, well beside their ferrett character.

Riot and Y&T might not have been "big", but I still hear 'Swords And Tequila' and 'Mean Streak' on the radio every now and again.

Can't say the same for Armored Saint. Nowadays they're mostly just remembered as the band John Bush was in before Anthrax.

RIOT - not commercial enough, probably not original enough either
ARMORED SAINT - not good enough or commercial enough, they were lucky that Slagel thought they looked cool, were based out of Cali, and could get their multi-album deal with Metal Blade

Y&T had a pretty big hit with "Don't Be Afraid Of The Dark," right?

Temple of Blood wrote:

RIOT - not commercial enough, probably not original enough either
ARMORED SAINT - not good enough or commercial enough, they were lucky that Slagel thought they looked cool, were based out of Cali, and could get their multi-album deal with Metal Blade

RIOT not 'original enough'? Who else sounded like them in 1979? Not sure what you mean about not being original. They may not have been commercial, but they were around at the beginning of the NWOBHM and should have been as popular as Motorhead, Saxon, Def Leppard, Diamond Head, etc. They were sharing the stage with a lot of those bands back then too.

ARMORED SAINT were signed to CHRYSALIS Records. They had a major label contract. They were plenty good enough IMO. They were HUGE in California, but never made it big outside. When they toured with Metallica, they opened for them in every state but California, where Armored Saint were the headliners.

Six-Pack Thunder Dong wrote:

Y&T had a pretty big hit with "Don't Be Afraid Of The Dark," right?

No. It never was a hit. Their biggest was "Summertime Girls".

SpectreFate wrote:

Six-Pack Thunder Dong wrote:

Y&T had a pretty big hit with "Don't Be Afraid Of The Dark," right?

No. It never was a hit. Their biggest was "Summertime Girls".

They played the hell out of it around here then.

Six-Pack Thunder Dong wrote:

They played the hell out of it around here then.

You live in Mass. I think that explains it.

SpectreFate wrote:

Six-Pack Thunder Dong wrote:

They played the hell out of it around here then.

You live in Mass. I think that explains it.