I'm sorry for misleading you all...apparently I am not a real man!

ultmetal wrote:

Actually, if you watch the clip again, he shows photos of what he thinks "real women" are suppose to look like. Basically your typical Leave It To Beaver style stuff.

Ahhh, of course, June Cleaver. The Perfect Woman. She wore a dress, high heels and pearls just to clean house, always had dinner and a martini ready for Ward when he got home from work, and she knew better than to give him any sass cuz he'd show her the power of his back hand (off camera of course). WIMMEN FOLK KNOWED THEIR PLACE IN THE GOOD OLE DAYS!

Required Fields wrote:

Someone should kick that preacher in the mouth.

Im not as gracious as some, but that would be too good, how about a kick in the bullocks so he wont be allowed to reproduce

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Spec,
I think Jesus would like AC/DC musically, but frown upon their lyrics.

Yes, but he would also break bread with AC/DC over the guy in the clip - this guy would be referred to as a pharisee or one of the other Jewish sects of the time that didn't get it right. The big guy wasn't about appearances but about the state of the soul and heart.

Good point there, jokeriv. It's all in the heart.

I like how Ult's picture pops up when he says that's what Satan wants a man to look like. So Satan wants muscular guys who break the stereotype of physically weak Chritians? Wouldn't it be better if he picked a skinny guy wearing make-up and a feathered boa to make his ridiculous point?

BTW, Paul's mention of men with long hair had more to do with the culture of the people he was writing to. In that society, the male prostitues all had long hair (it was like a trade mark) he was telling them to make sure they didn't have the appearence of being like them. Many of Paul's stuff in his letters applied to situations like this and wasn't necesarily a blanket statement for all Chritstians. And as far as the beards, my unerstanding is that in the Jewish culture of that time, all grown men had beards.

Wow....what a waste of dust this guy is.

That was pretty funny.

Someone just sent me another link. Apparently Ultimatum are homosexuals
as well. This guy is a real piece of work. Oh well, at least he called
us "young men". HA!

ultmetal wrote:

.......at least he called
us "young men". HA!

NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!??

ultmetal wrote:

Someone just sent me another link. Apparently Ultimatum are homosexuals
as well. This guy is a real piece of work. Oh well, at least he called
us "young men". HA!

this guys a real head job.

ultmetal wrote:

Oh well, at least he called
us "young men".

Beware, Ult... I hear a lotta them preacher types really really LIKE them "young men" if ya know what I'm sayin'.

Fat Freddy wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

Actually, if you watch the clip again, he shows photos of what he thinks "real women" are suppose to look like. Basically your typical Leave It To Beaver style stuff.

Ahhh, of course, June Cleaver. The Perfect Woman. She wore a dress, high heels and pearls just to clean house, always had dinner and a martini ready for Ward when he got home from work, and she knew better than to give him any sass cuz he'd show her the power of his back hand (off camera of course). WIMMEN FOLK KNOWED THEIR PLACE IN THE GOOD OLE DAYS!

Don't forget, she knew her place when it came to the bedroom as well and kept to her own bed. Sex is for procreation, not recreation.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Beware, Ult... I hear a lotta them preacher types really really LIKE them "young men" if ya know what I'm sayin'.

That's what I was saying. This preacher man has secret desires for effeminate young men who worship the devil. He LOVES the bad boys!

What are women supposed to do when theres a teaching like this?...He must expect them to obediantly sit bored out of their minds.

Now don't take this the wrong way because I completely support our soldiers and veterans, but I don't support the reasons behind war at least the current war and Vietnam, anyway according to this guy a "real man" is someone who kills as many people as he possibly can until his ammo runs out and his gun barrel melts? Well isn't that breaking like the fifth commandment? A total contradiction?

This whoe video originally posted is a contrdiction. Pay no attention to this idiot Scott. Ultimatum kicks ass.

Thanks. I don't sweat it. I am secure in who I am and what we do.

I've spoken with Jeff Godwin on the phone. It was over a decade ago. I dissected his book What's Wrong With Christian Rock, in which he uses circular reasoning, lies, twists Scripture, has his facts mixed up, etc. I called him on this stuff and he said, "I'll say whatever it takes to get people to give up the devil's music." I then contacted his publisher (a Christian publisher mind you) and pointed out the lies and deception to which they replied they were not responsible for the things their author's print. Sad really.

Honestly, I believe his heart is in the right place. He wants people to know the Savior and he honestly believes the music we play is demonically inspired. He cannot see any good that comes from it and doesn't know the freedom we have in Jesus. No amount of arguing will change his mind. Only the Spirit of God himself can do that.I did find it interesting that he never said anything about our lyrics. Never said a word about us, just associated us with evil and said we were "limp-wristed" and "effeminate" and not a real men. I wonder if he would say these things to my face? It's easy to make claims like that behind a pulpit or on YouTube, but I wonder how he would feel saying those things about us in front of us, our wives and our children?

ultmetal wrote:

Thanks. I don't sweat it. I am secure in who I am and what we do.

I've spoken with Jeff Godwin on the phone. It was over a decade ago. I dissected his book What's Wrong With Christian Rock, in which he uses circular reasoning, lies, twists Scripture, has his facts mixed up, etc. I called him on this stuff and he said, "I'll say whatever it takes to get people to give up the devil's music." I then contacted his publisher (a Christian publisher mind you) and pointed out the lies and deception to which they replied they were not responsible for the things their author's print. Sad really.

Honestly, I believe his heart is in the right place. He wants people to know the Savior and he honestly believes the music we play is demonically inspired. He cannot see any good that comes from it and doesn't know the freedom we have in Jesus. No amount of arguing will change his mind. Only the Spirit of God himself can do that.I did find it interesting that he never said anything about our lyrics. Never said a word about us, just associated us with evil and said we were "limp-wristed" and "effeminate" and not a real men. I wonder if he would say these things to my face? It's easy to make claims like that behind a pulpit or on YouTube, but I wonder how he would feel saying those things about us in front of us, our wives and our children?

Good post.

Yep dont sweat it.....your constingencys gives Ultimatum full support!!

ultmetal wrote:

Someone just sent me another link. Apparently Ultimatum are homosexuals
as well. This guy is a real piece of work. Oh well, at least he called
us "young men". HA!

"Young men, playing heavy metal, I said young men...."



The original video he had it right in the last little bit - go out & compel them to come into church to spread the word. However, I suspect the folks he was preaching to wouldn't have welcome most of us in with open arms. I don't have the long hair or wear all the leather & such, but one look at my (mostly Christian) band shirt collection & they'd be running for the hills. I'm glad I go to a more progressive church w/ a pastor that understands where I'm coming from, even if he's 40 years my senior & doesn't understand my music. But yes, I believe you're right, Scott - his heart's in the right place, it's his methods that are lacking.

Metal Misfit wrote:

Don't forget, she knew her place when it came to the bedroom as well and kept to her own bed. Sex is for procreation, not recreation.

Oh yea, June Cleaver had to be freak. Don'cha know that the dirtiest thing ever said on television was when she said, "Ward, I think you were a little hard on The Beaver last night?"

...yeah, I know, it's an old joke. But I couldn't resist.

...so you're a fake man?

Well said Ult, esp the last two sentences! People like him turn me off because they are pushing an opinion. They are not preaching Gods word from their heart, they are preaching their opinion from the heart and using a blanket of religious standing to push what they feel everyone should be like.

I am glad not everyone is so gullible or easily persuaded by preachers such as himself.

bgast1 wrote:

This guy wants his church to go out to the highways and byways and haul your butt into their church ult. So let me ask you, how comfortable will you feel there? Will you know that God's love abounds there? The type of stuff this guy spews just plain turns my stomach. So what are they going to do, drag you in there, make you get a haircut, put on a suit and tie and be someone that you aren't. Throw your gift out the window, because God couldn't possibly use you in your current state? This guy is the one that is in trouble. Just who is he to judge what the intents of the Holy Spirit are? Here endeth the anti-sermon.

I couldn't agree more with you. God is using ULT in a way that he couldn't use others. I must say that Ult could even be doing more for God than this preacher.

going back to the first video..i mean he talks about going out and reaching the youth for christ.well,is that the purpose of the metal musican? i mean,if the kids are listening to the metal;why not bring them the name of jesus with the metal music?? sadly he talks out both sides of his mouth..he talks about the metal music being so evil..well..i hope he finds himself a nice little quiet corner in heaven because if we are to worship the lord for all eternity;imagine all the metal brothas and sistas in faith that i will be joining in praise of our lord!!! gives me serious goosebumps just thinking about it.i will always support,encourage and pray for my metal musican friends!!!!HEART OF METAL!!!!! metal blessings and gods best to my Ultimatum brothas!! yea!

He's talking out BOTH mouths is what he's doing. And most of it's coming out the south pole.

wow, what an ignorant guy. i'll be honest.... i am not a christian by any means, but i still found his little "sermon" hateful, biased, and sexist. certainly Jesus would not approve, am i right?