All things Metallica

Witchfinder wrote:

Now that they are in the midst of remastering all their albums, I'm sure they'll remix AJFA and we'll all run out and buy it because we are suckers.

I would buy it because I'd really want to know how it sounded different.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Now that they are in the midst of remastering all their albums, I'm sure they'll remix AJFA and we'll all run out and buy it because we are suckers.

I would buy it because I'd really want to know how it sounded different.

Anything that finally makes that record listenable will get my money.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

I don't think it held back sales.

Obviously not.

It was simply "their" time. That album could've been an hour of the band members farting into kazoos and banging on major appliances with sticks and it still would've sold like cold beer on a hot day.

They didn't make that record for another 15 years! 

Boris2008 wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

I don't think it held back sales.

Obviously not.

It was simply "their" time. That album could've been an hour of the band members farting into kazoos and banging on major appliances with sticks and it still would've sold like cold beer on a hot day.

They didn't make that record for another 15 years! 

ZombieHavoc wrote:

I've never heard the problem with Justice.

I have to say I've never noticed the lack of bass. I'll have to give it a closer listen next time. And probably once I do, I'll always be able to pick it out and let it bother me !

007 wrote:

ZombieHavoc wrote:

I've never heard the problem with Justice.

I have to say I've never noticed the lack of bass. I'll have to give it a closer listen next time. And probably once I do, I'll always be able to pick it out and let it bother me !

I am sure we've talked about it before, but there are Guitar Hero versions of AJFA tracks that have audible bass - someone compiled these tracks and enhanced (more like played over) the bass on the rest of the AJFA tracks and called it And Just For Jason. It's been floating around for years on the interwebs. Check it out:

Witchfinder wrote:

007 wrote:

ZombieHavoc wrote:

I've never heard the problem with Justice.

I have to say I've never noticed the lack of bass. I'll have to give it a closer listen next time. And probably once I do, I'll always be able to pick it out and let it bother me !

I am sure we've talked about it before, but there are Guitar Hero versions of AJFA tracks that have audible bass - someone compiled these tracks and enhanced (more like played over) the bass on the rest of the AJFA tracks and called it And Just For Jason.  It's been floating around for years on the interwebs.  Check it out:

Metallica Guitar Hero was what made me realise that there were good songs on AJFA after all.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Metallica drummer Lars Ulrich was responsible for turning down the sound of Jason Newsted’s bass on 1988’s …And Justice For All, according to mixing engineer Steve Thompson.

He was behind the desk at Bearsville Studios, New York overseeing the final stages of the album, which has often been criticised for its lack of audible bass.

And Thompson insists that while he was happy with the bass sound when mixing the record, it was Ulrich who wanted it reduced.

He tells Ultimate Guitar: “What I wanted to do and what Lars wanted to do was totally different, which kind of upset me a little bit. I loved Metallica and was very familiar with them.

“I listened to the tracks and said to myself, ‘These sound like ass.’ I chased everybody out of the room and redesigned the drum sound and brought the guitars up. Jason Newsted killed it on bass. Perfect marriage with Hetfield's guitars.

“Lars comes walking in a couple of minutes later and listens to about a minute of it and goes, ‘Turn that off. What happened to my drum sound?’

“We had to get the drum sound up the way he had it. I wasn't a fan of it. So now he goes, ‘See the bass guitar?’ and I said, ‘Yeah, great part, man. He killed it.’ Lars said, ‘I want you to bring down the bass where you can barely, audibly hear it in the mix.’ I said, 'You're kidding, right?'"

Thompson was so concerned by the move that he called the band’s managers Cliff Burnstein and Peter Mensch that night and threatened to walk away from the project.

He continues: “I said, ‘I love these guys. I think they’re amazing and they’ve created a genre of their own but I do not agree with the direction Lars is pulling me in. My name’s going to go on it so why don’t you find somebody else?’

He was persuaded to stay but Thompson says he regrets not getting the sound the album deserved.

He adds: “My only regret is that we didn't have enough time to at least mix it the way we heard it. I wanted to take Master Of Puppets and blow that away.

Piggybacking on this story a bit more. This was from a Yahoo article I just read.

Steve Thompson also had this to say:

The producer said that Ulrich had apparently forgotten the episode when, years later at Metallica's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, he asked Thompson why the bass was inaudible.

"I wanted to cold-cock him right there. It was a shame because I'm the one getting the shit for the lack of bass," Thompson said.

And Justice for All is their best album. In my opinion, it's a masterpiece. I love the first three albums, but they peaked on Justice. It's a brilliant album. And I love the mix. Don't care. Sounds great to my ears. And Lars's playing, as I've stated before, is phenomenal on this album. These days he's a pale shade of what he once, but his work on this album is some of the best drumming ever recorded on a metal album.

Oh yeah, it's definitely his best drumming.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Oh yeah, it's definitely his best drumming.

A guy I used to work with years ago told me that he heard that the drums on Justice were pieced together from multiple takes because Lars couldn't get it right.

Anyone else ever hear that rumor?

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Oh yeah, it's definitely his best drumming.

A guy I used to work with years ago told me that he heard that the drums on Justice were pieced together from multiple takes because Lars couldn't get it right.

Anyone else ever hear that rumor?

I actually think I read that on here, but I could be wrong. It's definitely not the first time I heard it though.

007 wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Oh yeah, it's definitely his best drumming.

A guy I used to work with years ago told me that he heard that the drums on Justice were pieced together from multiple takes because Lars couldn't get it right.

Anyone else ever hear that rumor?

I actually think I read that on here, but I could be wrong. It's definitely not the first time I heard it though.

It's possible I asked that question here before, but I don't recall if anyone could confirm or deny that rumor.

Another thing I remember about the drumming on that album was that folks complained about the sound of the snare drum. It never bothered me, but I remember guys b*tching about it when that album was new.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

007 wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Oh yeah, it's definitely his best drumming.

A guy I used to work with years ago told me that he heard that the drums on Justice were pieced together from multiple takes because Lars couldn't get it right.

Anyone else ever hear that rumor?

I actually think I read that on here, but I could be wrong. It's definitely not the first time I heard it though.

It's possible I asked that question here before, but I don't recall if anyone could confirm or deny that rumor.

Another thing I remember about the drumming on that album was that folks complained about the sound of the snare drum. It never bothered me, but I remember guys b*tching about it when that album was new.

I've heard that rumor and also the rumor that Lars didn't even play on the record. I know he was actually taking drum lessons at the time.

I just heard that someone held his cymbal so he could do those cymbal chokes in Dyers Eve.

Witchfinder wrote:

also the rumor that Lars didn't even play on the record.

Hmmm, never heard that one before. And since we're on the subject of Lars and his drumming, Scott Ian confirmed in his book another long-standing rumor that I had heard before.

According to Scott, Anthrax were opening for Metallica on their European tour. One night, he ran into Cliff and Kirk outside their hotel and Cliff said they were going to dump Lars and look for a new drummer after they finished the tour. The tour continued, Cliff died and everyone flew home. Later on, James also told Scott that dumping Lars was the plan, but obviously everything changed.

Didn't Ian deny that at the time when Mustaine said it in an interview and it caused a stink?

Temple of Blood wrote:

Didn't Ian deny that at the time when Mustaine said it in an interview and it caused a stink?

He addresses that in his book too. According to Ian, he told that story to Dave in casual conversation and then Dave went and re-told it in an interview somewhere, thinking it was public knowledge, which it wasn't at the time.

I had heard the story years ago, before the internet and whatnot. I don't remember who the source of it was. It was just like "Dude, I heard they were going to fire Lars anyway, but then Cliff died". Noone in particular was given credit for the rumor or how or when it started.

Just makes you think what kind of Metallica would be around today if they did fire Lars and Cliff never died.

Boris2008 wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

007 wrote:

ZombieHavoc wrote:

I've never heard the problem with Justice.

I have to say I've never noticed the lack of bass. I'll have to give it a closer listen next time. And probably once I do, I'll always be able to pick it out and let it bother me !

I am sure we've talked about it before, but there are Guitar Hero versions of AJFA tracks that have audible bass - someone compiled these tracks and enhanced (more like played over) the bass on the rest of the AJFA tracks and called it And Just For Jason.  It's been floating around for years on the interwebs.  Check it out:

Metallica Guitar Hero was what made me realise that there were good songs on AJFA after all.

Wow. That has opened my eyes to something very important: apparently bass players are not important at all. Ha. Just kidding. But for real, I hear such a little difference on that clip. I mean, I can kinda hear something sounds different or something?

I can't imagine hearing Justice, the normal version, and being like, "this sucks!" and then hearing that and being like, "oh, whoops, it's actually not bad with someone playing bass along with it."

That "and justice for jason" thing is just some random dude that recorded his own bass parts and mixed them into the song.

S.D. wrote:

That "and justice for jason" thing is just some random dude that recorded his own bass parts and mixed them into the song.  

Some of those songs are using Jason's actual bass parts from the Guitar Hero game.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Oh yeah, it's definitely his best drumming.

A guy I used to work with years ago told me that he heard that the drums on Justice were pieced together from multiple takes because Lars couldn't get it right.

Anyone else ever hear that rumor?

Yup, but it's nonsense made up by Lars haters. He played every note live.

I'm sure he played every note live, but they were already cutting and pasting numerous takes together and punching in specific parts, so one completed song could have elements from 20 different takes. Not uncommon at all for major studio albums during that era. Remember the scene in A Year In The Half In The Life Of Metallica where they show them loading an entire van full of reels with various drum fills and takes on their way to mixing? Same thing with Justice.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

007 wrote:

ZombieHavoc wrote:

I've never heard the problem with Justice.

I have to say I've never noticed the lack of bass. I'll have to give it a closer listen next time. And probably once I do, I'll always be able to pick it out and let it bother me !

I am sure we've talked about it before, but there are Guitar Hero versions of AJFA tracks that have audible bass - someone compiled these tracks and enhanced (more like played over) the bass on the rest of the AJFA tracks and called it And Just For Jason.  It's been floating around for years on the interwebs.  Check it out:

Metallica Guitar Hero was what made me realise that there were good songs on AJFA after all.

Wow. That has opened my eyes to something very important: apparently bass players are not important at all. Ha. Just kidding. But for real, I hear such a little difference on that clip. I mean, I can kinda hear something sounds different or something?

I can't imagine hearing Justice, the normal version, and being like, "this sucks!" and then hearing that and being like, "oh, whoops, it's actually not bad with someone playing bass along with it."

Well as hard as it is to imagine, that's exactly what happened. I was an absolute Metallica nut up to the release of AJFA and hearing it killed my love for them stone dead for a while. There were a lot of other factors, by the time it came out I was far more into punk and I'd seen them live the year before and for the first time they sucked and I thought that the record sounded horrible (still do). By the time Metallica Guitar Hero came out I was back into metal and the songs from AJFA didn't sound as horrible as I'd remembered so I actually gave the songs a chance, I still think that the songs are nowhere near the two preceding records but the playing is undeniably superior.