Poll: The Best Mid-80s UK Band's American Sellout Record

Vexer6 wrote:

S.D. wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Perhaps we don't consider it a sellout today, but I remember vividly that is exactly what we labeled SiT when it was new. Maiden using synths??!! NO WAY!! lol

I had some bonehead friends that reacted that way to Somewhere In Time, I just ignored them and continued to be a fan of the album. Those friends reacted even more violently toward Seventh Son when it came out. I never had any problems with either album and consider them to be just as good as anything else they released during that era.

My issues with Maiden didn't start until No Prayer came out which was just a giant step backward by a group that had been progressing and maturing nicely up until that point.

I found No Prayer to be a rather underrated album myself and I actually prefer it over Seventh Son.

No Prayer doesn't come anywhere near Seventh Son, but I like it honestly. In my eyes, the only real dud in Maiden's catalog is Virtual XI (and even it's not completely unlistenable).

exact33 wrote:

I went with Turbo - they clearly were trying to be mainstream on that record.

Priest were already pretty succesful before Turbo, and both Turbo and Ram It Down were originally supposed to be a double-album called Twin Turbos, but CBS Records nixed that idea and Turbo ended up getting released first. I think with Turbo they just wanted to experiment a bit.

The synths RULE on 'Somewhere in Time' and 'Turbo'. But are we kidding here? 'Somewhere in Time' easily out of those, and I'm a Priest fan over a Maiden fan all days of the week.

Wurthless wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

S.D. wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Perhaps we don't consider it a sellout today, but I remember vividly that is exactly what we labeled SiT when it was new. Maiden using synths??!! NO WAY!! lol

I had some bonehead friends that reacted that way to Somewhere In Time, I just ignored them and continued to be a fan of the album. Those friends reacted even more violently toward Seventh Son when it came out. I never had any problems with either album and consider them to be just as good as anything else they released during that era.

My issues with Maiden didn't start until No Prayer came out which was just a giant step backward by a group that had been progressing and maturing nicely up until that point.

I found No Prayer to be a rather underrated album myself and I actually prefer it over Seventh Son.

No Prayer doesn't come anywhere near Seventh Son, but I like it honestly. In my eyes, the only real dud in Maiden's catalog is Virtual XI (and even it's not completely unlistenable).

I also like both Blaze Bailey albums, they've got some pretty good songs like Man On The Edge, Sign of The Cross, The Unbeliever, Edge of Darkness, Futureal, Lightining Strikes Twice, The Clansmen and Don't Look To The Eyes Of A Stranger.

Frankly, I knew Maiden would win this poll easily, because SIT is clearly the best album on here. It's also the least egregious when it comes to going in a mainstream direction.

The Ultimate Sin is a quite good album that has an undeserved bad reputation. The majority of the songs on that album are classic Ozzy with an 80s sheen laid on top of them. Ozzy has always used keyboards to great affect in his songs and this album was no different.

Turbo is awful. A really stupid album by a smart band.

Saxon was merely disappointing and heralded a rough patch for the band as they became unsure of what they should sound like.

I did not add Hysteria to this list because Def Leppard had been chasing an American audience almost from the beginning of the band. They succeeded famously and probably were a large factor in many UK bands trying to capture the same success.

The real truth is most of these albums were the signal that traditional metal was failing as a commercial force. Priest, Maiden, Saxon, etc... were losing ground to both thrash and glam and by the end of the decade traditional metal was practically dead in the water.

This is a tough one for me. Somewhere In Time was the first Maiden album I ever bought. In fact, it was the first new cassette I bought for my first walkman. I remember being pleasantly surprised to see the booklet inside unfolded to reveal the album artwork. Never seen that before. I also remember watching "Wasted Years" on MTV. That was probably the first Maiden song I ever heard. I wore out the cassette. Loved that album. I never thought of it as sell-out because I hadn't heard their back catalog before getting that album and, back then, probably wouldn't have understood what "Sell-out" meant anyway.

I bought Ultimate Sin when it came out (probably after seeing the "Shot In The Dark" video on Headbangers Ball) and liked it but, for some reason, sold the cassettes years later. I came to my senses and bought another copy and it is one of my favorite albums ever. It's so solid. It is my second favorite Ozzy album behind Diary....

Judas Priest has always released albums that are of "the times", even from the beginning. Why Turbo gets singled out is beyond me. Why Priest went "back" to a sound is because the times were yet again changing. The thing I find interesting about Priest is they were by and large at the front of many of the changes happening in music.

Ozzy post Sabbath falls into this same category.

Maiden, I'm too much of a fan to be objective.

Saxon is the odd one out here, because they didn't have the same level of success in the US as the others.

Here is the competition. I bought them all that year. (1986)

Peter Frampton - Premonition
Black Sabbath - Seventh Star
Blue Öyster Cult - Club Ninja
Electric Light Orchestra - Balance of Power
The Firm - Mean Business
Ozzy Osbourne - The Ultimate Sin
King Diamond - Fatal Portrait
Rainbow - Finyl Vinyl
Metallica - Master of Puppets
Van Halen - 5150
Judas Priest - Turbo
Raven - The Pack Is Back
Ted Nugent - Little Miss Dangerous
Accept - Russian Roulette
Keel - The Final Frontier
Krokus - Change of Address
Aerosmith - Classics Live!
GTR - GTR
Poison - Look What the Cat Dragged In
AC/DC - Who Made Who
Journey - Raised on Radio
Savatage - Fight for the Rock
Europe - The Final Countdown
Angel Witch - Frontal Assault
Queen - A Kind of Magic
Queensrÿche - Rage for Order
Dio - Intermission
Quiet Riot - QR III
Metal Church - The Dark
David Lee Roth - Eat 'Em and Smile
Loudness - Lightning Strikes
Vinnie Vincent Invasion - Vinnie Vincent Invasion
Motörhead - Orgasmatron
Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet
Warlock - True as Steel
Great White - Shot in the Dark
Triumph - The Sport of Kings
Boston - Third Stage
Iron Maiden - Somewhere in Time
Nazareth - Cinema
Alice Cooper - Constrictor
Ratt - Dancing Undercover
Alcatrazz - Dangerous Games
Lizzy Borden - Menace to Society
Saxon - Rock the Nations
Yngwie Malmsteen - Trilogy
Slayer - Reign In Blood
Stryper - To Hell with the Devil
Krokus - Alive & Screamin'
Black 'N Blue - Nasty Nasty
Megadeth - Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?
Fates Warning - Awaken the Guardian
Tesla - Mechanical Resonance
Guns N' Roses - Live ?!*@ Like a Suicide
Venom - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

journeyman wrote:

Judas Priest has always released albums that are of "the times", even from the beginning. Why Turbo gets singled out is beyond me. Why Priest went "back" to a sound is because the times were yet again changing. The thing I find interesting about Priest is they were by and large at the front of many of the changes happening in music.

Ozzy post Sabbath falls into this same category.

Maiden, I'm too much of a fan to be objective.

Saxon is the odd one out here, because they didn't have the same level of success in the US as the others.

Here is the competition. I bought them all that year. (1986)

Peter Frampton - Premonition
Black Sabbath - Seventh Star
Blue Öyster Cult - Club Ninja
Electric Light Orchestra - Balance of Power
The Firm - Mean Business
Ozzy Osbourne - The Ultimate Sin
King Diamond - Fatal Portrait
Rainbow - Finyl Vinyl
Metallica - Master of Puppets
Van Halen - 5150
Judas Priest - Turbo
Raven - The Pack Is Back
Ted Nugent - Little Miss Dangerous
Accept - Russian Roulette
Keel - The Final Frontier
Krokus - Change of Address
Aerosmith - Classics Live!
GTR - GTR
Poison - Look What the Cat Dragged In
AC/DC - Who Made Who
Journey - Raised on Radio
Savatage - Fight for the Rock
Europe - The Final Countdown
Angel Witch - Frontal Assault
Queen - A Kind of Magic
Queensrÿche - Rage for Order
Dio - Intermission
Quiet Riot - QR III
Metal Church - The Dark
David Lee Roth - Eat 'Em and Smile
Loudness - Lightning Strikes
Vinnie Vincent Invasion - Vinnie Vincent Invasion
Motörhead - Orgasmatron
Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet
Warlock - True as Steel
Great White - Shot in the Dark
Triumph - The Sport of Kings
Boston - Third Stage
Iron Maiden - Somewhere in Time
Nazareth - Cinema
Alice Cooper - Constrictor
Ratt - Dancing Undercover
Alcatrazz - Dangerous Games
Lizzy Borden - Menace to Society
Saxon - Rock the Nations
Yngwie Malmsteen - Trilogy
Slayer - Reign In Blood
Stryper - To Hell with the Devil
Krokus - Alive & Screamin'
Black 'N Blue - Nasty Nasty
Megadeth - Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?
Fates Warning - Awaken the Guardian
Tesla - Mechanical Resonance
Guns N' Roses - Live ?!*@ Like a Suicide
Venom - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

We are only talking about UK bands here in this poll, but from that list you can see many traditional metal bands releasing subpar albums that year.

James B. wrote:

As far as Leppard's sellout, I'd give "Hysteria" that honor over "Pyromania" At least "Pyromania" resembled the two before it with some balls here and there.

This. Ya beat me to it. I LOVE Hysteria, but it does sound much more polished. Still love it though.

DIO - Dream Evil
DEF LEPPARD - Hysteria
JAGUAR - This Time

Plus I love all albums on the list, except Saxon

Nah, for 'Pyromania' the entire Def Leppard machine moved Stateside and they toured and promoted that record relentlessly there. They hardly bothered pushing it in the U.K. It worked too! I remember reading that record had sold more in the U.S than the four biggest selling pop acts in the U.K combined all while they remained a relatively niche act here in the U.K. Bizarrely they only started having big chart hits in the U.K with 'Hysteria' riding the wave that Bon Jovi and Europe had created for poppy hard rock (sorry I mean, blistering bone crushing metal in the case of Bon Jovi! )

Plus we're talking best sell out records and I thought that 'Pyromania' had a lot more substance than 'Hysteria'

Although I agree that it is perhaps unkind to suggest that they 'sold out' to the U.S market as I think that their music was always leaning in that direction (I never really saw them as a NWOBHM band) but on Pyromania, they learned how to do it properly.

When all's said and done, selling out is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, if their goal is to make as much money as possible, then why shouldn't they sell out?

I'm not at all saying that we have to LIKE it; rather, that they have every right to do it, and I find it difficult to place blame, when it's really none of my business what they do.

I still love Hysteria though, sellout or not.

Man, I went to school, where my bus stop was across where Def Lep stayed in the early 80's - talk about betrayed by Hysteria or whatever that drek was called!!!! I had to put up with school bullying because I went to a posh private school and had long hair and wouldn't sell out - to my idols bar AC/DC, totally wanking off to the Yank sell out early 80's market!

stevegarveyfan wrote:

When all's said and done, selling out is not necessarily a bad thing. After all, if their goal is to make as much money as possible, then why shouldn't they sell out?

I'm not at all saying that we have to LIKE it; rather, that they have every right to do it, and I find it difficult to place blame, when it's really none of my business what they do.

I still love Hysteria though, sellout or not.

Nobody is debating chasing the dollar - only a fool would not - its the betrayal that is felt by the fans. F*ck, I'd wear a skirt if I could get set up for life.

Witchfinder wrote:

journeyman wrote:

Judas Priest has always released albums that are of "the times", even from the beginning. Why Turbo gets singled out is beyond me. Why Priest went "back" to a sound is because the times were yet again changing. The thing I find interesting about Priest is they were by and large at the front of many of the changes happening in music.

Ozzy post Sabbath falls into this same category.

Maiden, I'm too much of a fan to be objective.

Saxon is the odd one out here, because they didn't have the same level of success in the US as the others.

Here is the competition. I bought them all that year. (1986)

Peter Frampton - Premonition
Black Sabbath - Seventh Star
Blue Öyster Cult - Club Ninja
Electric Light Orchestra - Balance of Power
The Firm - Mean Business
Ozzy Osbourne - The Ultimate Sin
King Diamond - Fatal Portrait
Rainbow - Finyl Vinyl
Metallica - Master of Puppets
Van Halen - 5150
Judas Priest - Turbo
Raven - The Pack Is Back
Ted Nugent - Little Miss Dangerous
Accept - Russian Roulette
Keel - The Final Frontier
Krokus - Change of Address
Aerosmith - Classics Live!
GTR - GTR
Poison - Look What the Cat Dragged In
AC/DC - Who Made Who
Journey - Raised on Radio
Savatage - Fight for the Rock
Europe - The Final Countdown
Angel Witch - Frontal Assault
Queen - A Kind of Magic
Queensrÿche - Rage for Order
Dio - Intermission
Quiet Riot - QR III
Metal Church - The Dark
David Lee Roth - Eat 'Em and Smile
Loudness - Lightning Strikes
Vinnie Vincent Invasion - Vinnie Vincent Invasion
Motörhead - Orgasmatron
Bon Jovi - Slippery When Wet
Warlock - True as Steel
Great White - Shot in the Dark
Triumph - The Sport of Kings
Boston - Third Stage
Iron Maiden - Somewhere in Time
Nazareth - Cinema
Alice Cooper - Constrictor
Ratt - Dancing Undercover
Alcatrazz - Dangerous Games
Lizzy Borden - Menace to Society
Saxon - Rock the Nations
Yngwie Malmsteen - Trilogy
Slayer - Reign In Blood
Stryper - To Hell with the Devil
Krokus - Alive & Screamin'
Black 'N Blue - Nasty Nasty
Megadeth - Peace Sells... But Who's Buying?
Fates Warning - Awaken the Guardian
Tesla - Mechanical Resonance
Guns N' Roses - Live ?!*@ Like a Suicide
Venom - Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

We are only talking about UK bands here in this poll, but from that list you can see many traditional metal bands releasing subpar albums that year.

Name me one album after Stained Class that was any good by Priest? And don't say PAINKILLER - a total go through the motions effort of ripping off speed metal, and a woeful attempt, the same as Turbo, gentle sound, of bandwagoning.

I have the balls to say it - PRIEST are a total SELL OUT.

Halford is all METAL GOD - So METAL GOD he goes all GOTH in the mid nineties, yeah right.

Quote :

Name me one album after Stained Class that was any good by Priest?

Hell Bent For Leather?
British Steel?
Point Of Entry?
Screaming For Vengeance?

Personally, the only hiccups in the JP discography as far as I'm concerned is Turbo and Demolition, and to a lesser extent Nostradamus (which is fine once the fat is trimmed). However, you have a right to your opinion... even though it is wrong .

I voted Innocence is No Excuse - I actually dig that album a lot and in many ways I find it better than Crusader. Yes it is more commercial sounding but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

I must confess this album is probably my favorite post-early 80s Saxon album from their 1980s decade.

Voted for Maiden

Since I don't see SiT as a sellout, my vote goes for the only Ozzy album I can listen to without a strong desire to hit skip button.

Somewhere in Time. It was the first Maiden record I ever had and the record that made me a fan.

Girlschool...Play Dirty
Slade....All their mid to late 80s albums
Demon
Vandenberg...I know they are dutch but they really changed by the time the third album hit the shelf

I voted Turbo, but I misread the thread title. I thought it was "Biggest Sellout", which I thought Turbo was.

As for best sellout album, SiT isnt a sellout, and Pyromania was 1983, not quite mid 80's. I suppose I'd go with Saxon, it is a sellout album, but it's not that bad.

Maiden gets my vote.Wouldnt consider it a sellout album by any means though.

Man...I can't believe all this nonsense I'm reading about 'Painkiller' being (paraphrased) a "lame attempt at speed metal". That album f'n rules!

IMO, after the flirtation w/ synths & hairspray on 'Turbo' (which I like), 'Painkiller' sounds like a natural progression from 'SFV', beginning with the song "Ram It Down" (from "RID" obviously) bringing back the aggression, then on into "Painkiller" (the song)...Heavy f'n Metal of the highest order!

Quote :

Man...I can't believe all this nonsense I'm reading about 'Painkiller' being (paraphrased) a "lame attempt at speed metal". That album f'n rules!

Meh.