SPEED METAL or THRASH?

If you can imagine flying really fast it's power.
If you can imagine running or driving really fast it's speed.
If you can imagine thrashing things to pieces it's thrash.



I think Megadeth is a mixture of speed, thrash and "traditional" heavy metal. It's more the others than thrash.


Helloween's Keeper of the Seven Keys albums are power, but Walls of Jericho is speed. The tempo and the style of drumming in that album is quite like thrash but the overall vibe is more of going around very fast than breaking things apart, but it's has more of a "ground" feeling than "airy" feeling which the Keeper albums have.

Thrash tends to be more melodically dissonant. Speed metal bands tend to play in key.

I think speed metal has a stronger NWOBHM edge , while THRASH is more violent. I´d say, older Metallica is closer to speed metal and Slayer and Dark Angel are closer to Thrash.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Thrash tends to be more melodically dissonant.

Which also makes it far more interesting.

S.D. wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Thrash tends to be more melodically dissonant.

Which also makes it far more interesting.

got that right

which is why I have trouble listening to modern power metal bands (the heirs of 80's speed metal IMHDO) Ya know the monotonous tempo for an entire abum. (Insert rant about blast beats here as well)

S.D. wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Thrash tends to be more melodically dissonant.

Which also makes it far more interesting.

Not necessarily. It's not like listening to tons of random out-of-key notes (like a lot of extreme metal bands) is really all that interesting.

"Seventh Son" doesn't have anything but straight major/minor scales and is a very interesting album IMHO.

I disagree with the original observation about Artillery, Helloween, Rage et. al turning into 'wussy' bands. They all have moved on from their initial sound true but I wouldn't say any of those bands made drastic changes that would turn me away from their current style.

Anyways - speed vs thrash is a fine line. I think the difference is thrash is a lot more aggressive and more chaotic. Both styles are based on playing 'speedy' riffs, drum fills etc. but I see speed metal as an earlier form of what became known as power metal. Someone mentioned cleaner sounding - I guess that's the best description I can think of too. I might also add more melody driven.

Most of the so called speed metal bands from the 80s all morphed into power metal bands or became known as part of the power metal scene. So in a sense, I don't think speed metal is can be considered a genuine or at least long-lasting genre.

Alex Dee Rokket wrote:

I disagree with the original observation about Artillery, Helloween, Rage et. al turning into 'wussy' bands.

Must be super to still be in your 20's...

Alex Dee Rokket wrote:

They all have moved on from their initial sound true

VVV

Most of the so called speed metal bands from the 80s all morphed into power metal bands or became known as part of the power metal scene.

someone post the puking emoticon for me.

Temple of Blood wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Thrash tends to be more melodically dissonant.

Which also makes it far more interesting.

Not necessarily. It's not like listening to tons of random out-of-key notes (like a lot of extreme metal bands) is really all that interesting.

"Seventh Son" doesn't have anything but straight major/minor scales and is a very interesting album IMHO.

I probably should have thrown in the caveat "generally", it has to make sense in the overall composition.

I never really gave it much thought but Sax's explanation is spot on (sans the band's wussy downturn). I remember an episode of Men Behaving Badly where they had an older guy as a houseguest who was over extending his stay and they wanted him gone. They started cranking metal and stating it was Thrash Metal night. The old guy says "That's not thrash,that's speed.Crank it up!" (or something very similar.It's been quite a few years now)

Zze wrote:

I think speed metal has a stronger NWOBHM edge , while THRASH is more violent. I´d say, older Metallica is closer to speed metal and Slayer and Dark Angel are closer to Thrash.

Yet Slayer's Show No Mercy and Dark Angel's We Have Arrived are more pure speed metal than any album from Metallica.

Overkill - speed

Slayer - thrash

Its all awesome

i have to disagree with that. Albums like the Years of Decay,Under The Influence and Horrorscope are textbook EastCoast thrash, pure and simple.

And Overkill is overall more awesome than Slayer. But that's just my opinion.

dark avenger wrote:

i have to disagree with that. Albums like the Years of Decay,Under The Influence and Horrorscope are textbook EastCoast thrash, pure and simple.

And Overkill is overall more awesome than Slayer. But that's just my opinion.

Dark, I hear ya buddy. I love Slayer, but Overkill waste em. I don't agree with you that Overkill were thrash in the early stages: Last 2 albums, yes. I prefer the speed to thrash. Never saw Overkill, did you? I saw Slayer in 1988, and that was a horrible day - one of the roadies, tour manager I think, punched a kid looking for Tom Arya's autograph, in the face - don't know how you do it in the States, but we Irish don't stand for that BS and I basically jumped in and. . . I can't say more - that was my statement to the police - I have no idea how he got his jaw broken, he fell and his jaw on the kerb as I told the police.

We saw the show anyway and they were great, Nuclear Assualt supporting. A mate of mine had hung out with Kerry King that day and said he was cool - so I don't judge a band by that awful incident - just wailing on kids in Dublin, no matter how big a band the guys represent is asking to get your kicked in. It was in Dun Laoghaire, Top Hat, google the area, and, well, a not a place to go throwing your weight about. Really nasty afternoon that, cops called and everything. Put a sour taste in the mouth.

In my opinion Overkill is power / thrash. Slayer is closer to pure Thrash. The first 2 Overkill albums have a very strong Manowar feel along with Thrash roots. but I like all these styles it doenstá matter if its Speed or Thrash

I also like Power Metal and I don´t think its "kitten" by any means. In the beginning , Speed Power and Thrash where all very close, but as 80s passed you had Thrash bands becoming more and more aggressive ( Slayer and Dark Angel ) and Power Metal bands becoming more and more melodic ( Running Wild and Helloween )

All that really matters is whether or not somebody digs on a band. At least to me, anyways.

Two kinds of music...."stuff I dig" and "stuff I don't"

Seems some spend more time labeling somebody and/or debating over whether it's correct or not than enjoying the music.


old-fart rant done

James B. wrote:

Seems some spend more time labeling somebody and/or debating over whether it's correct or not than enjoying the music.

its actually possible to do both. debate how to classify a bands/albums sound, & enjoy what you are hearing at the same time.

James B. wrote:

All that really matters is whether or not somebody digs on a band.

You're wrong. All that matters is if I dig a band. Everyone else is wrong.

And "Power Metal is Kitten"!!!!!!!!!!! [might have made that my new sig - go ahead and click on it....]

Chrome Locust wrote:

dark avenger wrote:

i have to disagree with that. Albums like the Years of Decay,Under The Influence and Horrorscope are textbook EastCoast thrash, pure and simple.

And Overkill is overall more awesome than Slayer. But that's just my opinion.

Dark, I hear ya buddy. I love Slayer, but Overkill waste em. I don't agree with you that Overkill were thrash in the early stages: Last 2 albums, yes. I prefer the speed to thrash. Never saw Overkill, did you?

I saw Overkill 4 times; twice in small clubs, and twice at Wacken Open Air.

You are right about early Overkill: first 2 albums are imo musically somewhere between thrash and US Power Metal, not too far from what Metal Church were playing at the same time.But beginning with Under The Influence, the thrash tendencies got more and more important.

mc666 wrote:

James B. wrote:

Seems some spend more time labeling somebody and/or debating over whether it's correct or not than enjoying the music.

its actually possible to do both. debate how to classify a bands/albums sound, & enjoy what you are hearing at the same time.

Of course it is, I did say "more" though. For what it's worth

I would kill to see Overkill - I'm so jealous. Unreal act. They have never come over to Ireland, such a shame.

dark avenger wrote:

Chrome Locust wrote:

dark avenger wrote:

i have to disagree with that. Albums like the Years of Decay,Under The Influence and Horrorscope are textbook EastCoast thrash, pure and simple.

And Overkill is overall more awesome than Slayer. But that's just my opinion.

Dark, I hear ya buddy. I love Slayer, but Overkill waste em. I don't agree with you that Overkill were thrash in the early stages: Last 2 albums, yes. I prefer the speed to thrash. Never saw Overkill, did you?

I saw Overkill 4 times; twice in small clubs, and twice at Wacken Open Air.

You are right about early Overkill: first 2 albums are imo musically somewhere between thrash and US Power Metal, not too far from what Metal Church were playing at the same time.But beginning with Under The Influence, the thrash tendencies got more and more important.