The difference between thrash and speed metal is????

I was having this discussion with my son (16yrs) and I just thought I'd ask it here as well. I remember 'back in the day' when this style was coming on strong Metallica 'Ride the Lighting', Megadeth 'Killing is my Business', Anthrax 'Fistfull of Metal' or Exodus 'Bonded by Blood' ect.

I often heard these terms interchangeably it seemed. But when I peruse the boards it seems like seperate genres.... Have i just missed something???? I remember hearing Jimmy B saying Deliverance is a 'speed metal' not a thrash metal band.....

If I have, what would the characteristics of thrash verses speed metal be?

How about some scholarly input mein freuds.....

p.s. I did search the freakin' board for such a thread prevously and didn't see it... (hi eye!)

I say speed metal is more like old Annihilator. I wouldn't say they are thrash.

I always thought they meant the same thing

you say speed metal I say thrash metal

There are bands like HELSTAR, RUNNING WILD, early-blind guardian, early-helloween, ANVIL, and POWERMAD for example that sound very thrashy but are considered speed metal bands. I think it is styles of vocals that could define if it is a thrash or a speed metal band.

powermacho wrote:

There are bands like HELSTAR, RUNNING WILD, early-blind guardian, early-helloween, ANVIL, and

We used to call that power metal before that term started being misused for symphonic metal.

Thanks for bringing that up SPECTREFATE. I really have hard time using the word power metal to describe some bands to my friends.

I always thought it was the vocal style also, Speed metal is like Deliverance or Helloween where the vocals are like power metal, in thrash you have the same speedy 3 chord riffs except vocals are little more grinding.

I don't think the distinction is important because thrash bands can have speed metal songs and vice versa.

I think people basically say that thrash is more chromatic/dissonant/atonal and speed metal has more melody.

To me -
Speed = clean vocals and production with a more varied lyrical content. Ie: Powermad, Annihilator, Agent Steel
Thrash = Raw vocals and production with more crunch and dark or political leaning lyrics. Ie: Evildead, Destruction, Sacred Reich

There are exceptions to both rules, but that is how I have personally cataloged my stuff.

Helloween, Grave Digger, Rage = speed metal
Slayer, Kreator, Exodus = thrash metal

my views are pretty much a mirror of Saxon1500's views.

spectrefate wrote:

powermacho wrote:

There are bands like HELSTAR, RUNNING WILD, early-blind guardian, early-helloween, ANVIL, and

We used to call that power metal before that term started being misused for symphonic metal.

I always looked at Power Metal and Neo-classical to be speed metal.

To me its a mixture of things. As others here have said its a lot to do with the vocals, but the drums play a huge part in it also. Mainly by the down beat. If there are no down beats, then its speed metal.

I share your dilemma Mr. Electric. The genre thing has always been tricky for me, as well. Thrash borders on so many other genres, it seems, that I sometimes find myself just saying "Metal".

I think Lurideath summed it up.The downbeat is the major part of thrash.

Thrash Metal:
A few of these may be slightly outside of pure thrash, but are generally considered to be thrash bands/releases:

Abattoir - Vicious Attack
Abattoir - The Only Safe Place
Accuser-Repent
Accuser-Reflections
Acrophet-Faded Glory
Acrophet-Corrupt Minds
Aftermath - Eyes of Tomorrow
Agony-The First Defiance
Anacrusis-Manic Impressions
Anacrusis-Screams & Whispers
Annihilator-Alice in Hell
Annihilator-Never,Neverland
Annihilator-Criteria for a Black Widow
Annihilator-Carnival Diablos
Annihilator-Waking the Fury
Annihilator-Schizo Deluxe
Artillery-By Inheritance
Artillery-Fear of Tomorrow
Artillery-Terror Squad
Artillery-B.A.C.K.
Anthrax-Fistful of Metal
Anthrax-Spreading the Disease
Anthrax-Among the Living
Anthrax-State of Euphoria
Anthrax-Persistence of Time
Asphyxia-Exit:Reality
At War-Ordered to Kill
At War-Retaliatory Strike
Atrophy-Socialized Hate
Atrophy-Violent By Nature
Avenger of Blood - Death Brigade
Believer-Extraction from Mortality
Believer-Sanity Obscure
Believer-Dimensions
Blackend-Sloth
Blackend-Mental. Game. Messiah.
Blackend-The Last Thing Undone
Coroner-R.I.P.
Coroner-Punishment for Decadence
Coroner-Mental Vortex
Coroner-No More Color
Coroner-Grin
Consecrator-Image of Deception
Cyclone Temple-I Hate Therefore I Am
Cylcone Temple-My Friend Lonely
Dark Angel-We Have Arrived
Dark Angel-Darkness Descends
Dark Angel-Leave Scars
Dark Angel-Time Does Not Heal
Dead and Bloated - You Don't
Death-Human
Death-Individual Thought Patterns
Death-Sound of Perseverance
Death Angel-The Ultra-Violence
Death Angel-Frolic through the Park
Deathrow-Raging Steel
Deathrow-Deception Ignored
Defiance-Void Terra Firma
Defiance-Beyond Recognition
Detritus-Perpetual Destiny
Detritus-If But For One
Devastation-Signs of Life
Devastation-Idolatry
Drifter - No Where to Hide
Exciter-Violence & Force
Exciter-The Dark Command
Equinox-Auf Weidersehen
Equinox-Xerox Success
Exodus-Bonded By Blood
Exodus-Pleasures of the Flesh
Exodus-Fabulous Disaster
Exodus-Impact is Imminent
Exodus-Tempo of the Damned
Exodus-Shovel Headed Kill Machine
Exodus-The Atrocity Exhibit-Exhibit A
EvilDead-Annihilation of Civilization
EvilDead-The Underworld
Evile-Enter the Grave
Faith or Fear-Punishment Area
Fueled by Fire-Evil in the Night
Forbidden-Forbidden Evil
Forbidden-Twisted into Form
Forbidden-Distortion
Forbidden-Green
Gama Bomb - Survival of the Fastest
Gammacide - Victims of Science
Gothic Slam-Just Another Face in the Crowd
Grinder - The 1st EP
Grinder - Nothing Is Sacred
Hater Attack - Human Hell
Hallows Eve - Tales of Terror
Hallows Eve - Death & Insanity
Hallows Eve - Monuemnt
Hirax - Raging Violence
Hirax - Hate, Fear, & Power
Hirax - Barrage of Noise
Hirax - The New Age of Terror
Hirax - Assassins of War EP
Hirax - Chaos & Brutality EP
Hyades - Abuse Your Illusions
Jesus Freaks - Socially Unacceptable
Killjoy - Compelled by Fear
Kreator-Enemy of God
Kreator-Violent Revolution
Kreator-Terrible Certainty
Kreator-Pleasure to Kill
Kreator-Extreme Aggression
Kreator-Coma of Souls
Kreator-Violent Revolution
Kreator-Enemy of God
Laaz Rockit-Nothing $acred
Living Death - World Neuroses
Living Death - Protected From Reality
Living Sacrifice-s/t
Madnator - Initial Velocity
Mandator - Perfect Progeny
Mekong Delta-The Music of Erich Zann
Mekong Delta-Dances of Death
Meltdown -Executioner
Metallica-Kill em All
Metallica-Ride the Lightning
Metallica-Master of Puppets
Metallica-...And Justice For All
Megadeth-Killing is my Buisness...
Megadeth-Peace Sells...
Megadeth-So Far, So Good...So What!
Megadeth-Rust in Peace
The Moshkteers-Downward Spiral
Municiple Waste -The Art of Partying
Nuclear Assault-Survive
Nuclear Assault-Handle with Care
Nuclear Assault-Something Wicked This Way Comes
Nuclear Assault-Third World Genocide
Overkill-Feel the Fire
Overkill-Taking Over
Overkill-Under the Influence
Overkill-The Years of Decay
Overkill-Horrorscope
Overkill-I Hear Black
Overkill-W.F.O.
Overkill-The Killig Kind
Overkill-From the Underground...
Overkill-Necroshine
Overkill-Bloodletting
Overkill-Killbox 13
Overkill-ReliXIV
Overkill-Immortalis
Pantera-Cowboys from Hell
Paradox-Product of Imagination
Paradox-Heresy
Paradox-Collision Course
Poltergeist-Behind the Mask
Possession-Eternally Haunt
Re-Animator-Condemned to Death
S.O.D.-Speak English or Die
Sacrament-Haunts of Violence
Sacrament-Testimony of the Apocalypse
Sacred Reich-Ignorance
Sacred Reich-The American Way
Sacred Reich-Surf Nicaragua
Sacred Reich-Independent
Sacrifice-Apocalypse Inside
Sadus-A Vision of Misery
Sadus-Out for Blood
Sepultura-Schizophrenia
Sepultura-Beneath the Remains
Sepultura-Arise
Sepultura-Chaos AD
Seventh Angel-The Torment
Seventh Angel-Lament for the Weary
Slaughter House - Face Reality
Slayer-Reign in Blood
Slayer-South of Heaven
Slayer-Season in the Abyss
Sodom-Agent Orange
Sodom-Persecution Mania
Sodom-Code Red
Sodom-M-16
Sodom-Sodom
\speed/kill\hate/-Acts of Insanity
Stone-s/t
Stone-Emotional Playground
Testament-The Legacy
Testament-The New Order
Testament-Practice What You Preach
Testament-Souls of Black
Testament-Low
Testament-The Ritual
Testament-The Gathering
Testament-First Strike Still Deadly
Tourniquet-Stop the Bleeding
Tourniquet-Psycho Surgery
Tourniquet-Pathogenic Occular Dissonance
Ultimatum-Puppet of Destruction
Ultimatum-The Mechanics of Perilous Times
Ultimatum-Into the Pit
Unleashed Power-Absorbed
United - Bloodied but Unbowed
United - Human Zoo
United - NoIQ
Vengeance Rising-Human Sacrifice
Vengeance Rising-Once Dead
Vio-lence-Eternal Nightmare
Vio-lence-Opressing the Masses
Vio-lence-Torture Tactics EP
Voivod-War & Pain
Voivod-Killing Technology
Voivod-Dimension Hatross
Vulture-Easier to Lie
Wargasm-Why Play Around?
Wargasm-Fireball
Whiplash-Power and Pain
Whiplash-Ticket to Mayhem
Wrekking Machine - Mechanistic Termination

SPEED METAL/POWER THRASH:
Some of these could be considered thrash, but their more melodic nature, especially in the vocals generally puts them into this category.

Agent Steel-Skeptics Apocalypse
Agent Steel-Unstoppable Force
Agent Steel-Omega Conspiracy
Agent Steel-Order of the Illuminati
Anvil-Speed of Sound
Death Angel-Act III
Death Angel-The Art of Dying
Deliverance-Deliverance
Deliverance-Weapons of Our Warfare
Deliverance-Stay of Execution
Deliverance-Learn
Exciter - Kill After Kill
Exciter - Exciter
Exciter - Violence And Force
Flotsam & Jetsam-Doomsday for the Deceiver
Flotsam & Jetsam-My God
Haven-Your Dying Day
Haven-Age of Darkness
Helloween-Walls of Jericho
Heathen-Breaking the Silence
Heathen-Victims of Deception
Helstar-A Distant Thunder
Helstar-Burning Star
Helstar-Nosferatu
Helstar-Remnants of War
Heretic-Breaking Point
Iced Earth-Burnt Offerings
Iced Earth-Days of Purgatory,
Iced Earth-Night of the Stormrider
Iced Earth-The Dark Saga
Iced Earth-Something Wicked This Way Comes
Iron Angel--Winds of War
Iron Angel--Hellish Crossfire
Laaz Rockit-Annihilation Principle
Laaz Rockit-Know Your Enemy
Machine Head-Burn My Eyes
Megadeth-Rust in Peace
Megadeth-Countdown to Extinction
Megadeth-United Abominations
Meliah Rage--Kill to Survive
Meliah Rage--Solitary Solitude
Meliah Rage--Unfinished Business
Metal Church-Metal Church
Metal Church-The Dark
Metal Church-Blessings in Disguise
Metal Church-Hanging in the Balance
Metal Church-The Human Factor
Nasty Savage-Nasty Savage
Nasty Savage-Indulgence
Nasty Savage-Abstract Reality
Nevermore-The Godless Endeavor
Nevermore-Enemies of Reality
Nevermore-Dreaming Neon Black
Nevermore-Dead Heart in a Dead World
Nevermore-The Politics of Ecstasy
Powermad-The Madness Begins (EP)
Powermad-Absolute Power
Rage-Perfect Man
Rage-The Missing Link
Rage-Welcome to the Other Side
Realm-Endless War
Realm-Suiciety
Reverend-Reverend
Reverend-Play God!
Risk - The Daily Horror News
Risk - Hell's Animals
Risk - Dirty Surfaces
Running Wild-Pile of Skulls
Sabbat - Mourning has Broken
Sanctuary-Refuge Denied
Sanctuary-Into the Mirror Black
Voivod-Killing Technology
Voivod-Dimension Hatross
Voivod-Nothingface
Watchtower-Energetic Disassembly
Whiplash-Insult to Injury
Witchhammer-The Lost Tapes
Witchhammer-1487
Xentrix-Shattered Existence
Xentrix-For Whose Advantage
Znowhite - Act of God

Speed Metal/Thrash Metal are the same.

To be really quite honest, I don't care what it's called. I like thrash, speed, classic, origional power, modern power, and everything else under the metal banner. If it is more melodic I usually call it power, if it is a combination of speed and melody I call it power/speed, and if it's fast but not melodic enough I call it thrash. However, in the end I like it all so it really doesn't matter to me.

Dallas, I couldnt agree more. Just turn it to "11" and break out the air guitar!!

The way I've always looked at it is that speed metal is not really its own genre, but more of a description of music that can be applied to any metal genre (e.g. Ace of Spades, Walls of Jericho, Fistful of Metal, etc, have all been referred to as speed metal, when they are, in fact, different genres). To name a genre by its tempo is tricky, because what if a band releases a slower tune? It wouldn't make sense to call it speed metal, would it? For instance, Judas Priest's song "Exciter" is considered speed metal, but the album Stained Class on which it is found is not speed metal.

Thrash, on the other hand, is obviously a genre. I think there are a few things that define thrash: blast beat and/or technical drumming (this is why I would consider an album like Metallica's Black Album, with the even paced hard rock-like drumming, to be metal, but not thrash...even if there are a couple fast tunes. Also, this is where it differs from speed metal, because speed metal can be faster than thrash but the drumming timing is different); while stocatto riffs can be in speed metal, thrash riffs, like the drum patterns, tend to be unevenly paced, or irregular (hence the term thrash). Even songs like Metallica's "For Whom The Bell Tolls", with the simpler drum and guitar patterns, seems thrash, as the rhythym still maintains that progression of intensity (unlike rock, which tends to be smoother). This is where Groove Metal differs from thrash.

Early LIVING DEATH, WARRANT(GER), THUNDERSTEEL era RIOT, early AGENT STEEL, SOLITAIRE etc...are speed metal bands because they play faster then the speed of light and thrash we all know who they are.
METAL MILITIA by METALLICA would be SPEED METAL too.

stepcousin wrote:

Dallas, I couldnt agree more. Just turn it to "11" and break out the air guitar!!

Back to reality, I think they both are the same thing. Metal, speed, thrash..etc.
Please explain the difference to me.

I think they're basically the same.

Me too. Thats the both of us.

HEAVY METAL is different then thrash and speed but both styles have heavy metal influences in them. Early 80s Thrash metal is a mix between heavy metal(NWOBHM specialy) and punk (just look at all the influences from those early thrash bands like SLAYER, METALLICA, EXODUS etc...). Speed metal is a mix between thrash and heavy metal and its music played very fast, like early SLAYER and many of the early METALLICA songs are SPEED METAL because they were played faster then other songs, that were more THRASH METAL. This is the way i see it.