Trends I hate in Metal - a rant.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Which symphonic accompaniment albums are actually good and stand up to repeated listens, not just as a one-time-only novelty?

One for me is Therion's "Lemuria/Sirius B" set. But that's original music with symphonic accompaniment. I agree that redoing previous songs with a symphony is lame.

1. First 4 King Diamond LPs and Queensryche - 1988 are nothing short of amazing, so I really have no problem with concept albums

#2 and #3 I can live without

Temple of Blood wrote:

Which symphonic accompaniment albums are actually good and stand up to repeated listens, not just as a one-time-only novelty?

Are there even that many to begin with?

Temple of Blood wrote:

Which symphonic accompaniment albums are actually good and stand up to repeated listens, not just as a one-time-only novelty?

Rage's XIII comes to mind.

Eyesore wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

manny wrote:

There is one trend I do loathe is classic rock/metal artist re-recording their classic songs, if you want to do that, record it in an arena and release another live album

While I disagree with you there, Manny (we don't need anymore live albums) I think the re-recording thing that bands are doing is more a legal move.

Yea, in the press, the band will say "We're doing it for the fans, new technology, yadda, yadda, yadda". But in the end, it's more about retaining the rights and publishing for songs they might have lost through bad deals early in their careers. Or to cut out old members, like KISS and Ozzy were rumored to do.

But also some re-recordings are just bad-ass. Testament's First Strike Still Deadly, for example. Killer! The new re-recordings of the first two Anacrusis albums are also ridiculously good.

Amorphis' re-recordings of their old material is also awesome.

HAHAHAHA! You hate everything that I like about metal or even some bands that I listen to. If you don't like those things then simply don't buy the albums. Nowadays you can preview just about everything.

I don't particulary care for some concept albums. Like Gamma Ray has gone a bit far and even Rhapsody, but thats what I expect from those bands. It's no different than going to a movie.

If bands don't do things out of the ordinary then things just get too be samey and boring after a while. Bands need to take risks in order for them to survive. Some can really make something great others just fall flat and try to get back to what they are known to do.

Maybe you just don't let your musical tastes go further than what your used to. I love metal and everything about it, but theres also times when I just don't feel "Metal" and need other styles of music to be influenced by or to mellow out to.

tohostudios wrote:

I agree that redoing previous songs with a symphony is lame.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to.

Composing music with the idea of having a symphony behind you is a different matter entirely, as opposed to retro-fitting old rock/metal songs with elements that were never intended to be there.

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

HAHAHAHA! You hate everything that I like about metal or even some bands that I listen to. If you don't like those things then simply don't buy the albums. Nowadays you can preview just about everything.

I don't particulary care for some concept albums. Like Gamma Ray has gone a bit far and even Rhapsody, but thats what I expect from those bands. It's no different than going to a movie.

If bands don't do things out of the ordinary then things just get too be samey and boring after a while. Bands need to take risks in order for them to survive. Some can really make something great others just fall flat and try to get back to what they are known to do.

Maybe you just don't let your musical tastes go further than what your used to. I love metal and everything about it, but theres also times when I just don't feel "Metal" and need other styles of music to be influenced by or to mellow out to.

Allow me to retort: I never said I bought these terrible albums not knowing what they were. Certainly in 2011 I don't blindly buy any album. Also, I don't recall Motorhead or AC/DC having trouble not surviving playing the same style for 20+ albums.

My musical tastes are just fine thank you and I when I want something lighter I'll listen to old Aerosmith or Zep. I am not a musician however so I understand that they are facets of albums that mean nothing to me that might have great relevance to a musician. I have hated concept albums since I first became aware of them in the 80's. They are self indulgent to the nth degree.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Which symphonic accompaniment albums are actually good and stand up to repeated listens, not just as a one-time-only novelty?

I personally enjoy Kiss - Alive IV & Metallica - S&M. I've also heard the Deep Purple fans rave about the Concerto for the Group and Orchestra album.

I think re-recordings are fine if they are done like Helstar and Testament did them. Instead of releasing standard best-of compilations, they re-recorded the songs, and they sounded awesome. I seldom care for re-recorded albums (like Twisted Sister's Still Hungry), but an honorable exception to the rule is Saint's Warriors of the Son remake.

Witchfinder wrote:

At least Michael Kamen won’t be around ruining metal bands anymore, so there is that.

Dude. Weak.

Anyway, I pretty much agree with this;

Eyesore wrote:

Some concept albums are great, some are terrible, and most others reside somewhere in between.

Some symphonic metal albums are great, some are terrible, and most others reside somewhere in between.

Some unplugged albums ar...wait a minute. This is beginning to make too much sense.

If it wasn't for concept albums, we wouldn't have Ayreon's The Human Equation or Iced Earth's Night of the Stormrider.

I genuinely think Metallica's S&M album is really enjoyable and gets a lot of undeserved flak, even if it is a tad '90s material heavy. I'd barely say the symphonic thing ever became much of a trend beyond a few of the biggest bands, but ultimately having an orchestra back up the songs really does fill out the sound. As a one-off, what's the issue?

Similar applies to unplugged albums. Some are stunning and it can be refreshing to hear stripped down versions of rock and metal songs. It just shows a different side to the musicians and allows for a different kind of enjoyment of the song.

Also, with the re-recording thing. I'm normally a bit reluctant about it, but there are some standout examples of how well it can go. Testament's First Strike Is Deadly is monstrous and I've always liked Saxon's Heavy Metal Thunder. Anathema and Amorphis also did quite interesting updates of their old material, but like any of these other categories, it doesn't always work. Just look at something like Arch Enemy's Root of All Evil. Uggggh.

krokus wrote:

I dont like UNPLUGGEL/ACOUSTIC albums. I only have one, by KISS and only played it 3 times.
I dont like Symphonic accompaniment albums if you talk about what KISS, METALLICA or SCORPIONS did, very bad, specialy the METALLICA one.
I dont care much about CONCEPT ALBUMS because i dont follow most of the lirics of the music i play.
I AGREE WITH YOU WITCHFINDER.

Long live Krokus and Witchfinder

I haven't caught up on reading all the replies but my rule of thumb when it comes to liking or disliking something is to have an open mind - rather than hating a particular genre I give the band a fair chance rather than place myself in strict niches.

In saying that, I have found some symphonic and conceptual albums highly enjoyable and others sounding like the band is singing the contents of a milk carton (which I believe Ayeron did at one point lol).

In any case, the really good concept albums I've come across:

WASP's Crimson Idol
Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime
Ayeron's Into the Electric Castle and The Human Condition
Virgin Steele's Marriage of Heaven and Hell (pts 1 & 2) and Invictus
Grave Digger's Excalibur and Tunes of War
Blind Guardian's Somewhere Far Beyond

Symphony X are also really good storytellers however their albums aren't necessarily based on a single concept from start to finish (although I believe V: Mythology Suite is).

As far as "conceptual songs" - I don't think these should be lumped in the same category as concept albums because it is just an isolated story within that particular song. In fact if you hate Priest's Lochness, well you may as well hate every song you've come across because each song will be telling some sort of story ... unless of course it's some poppy glam song that talks about having sex (nothing wrong with that).

However, I do agree with the essence of your post: there are way too many conceptual turds around and oh boy the list is nearly infinite and from time to time it even includes albums by bands that have otherwise written and recorded very good albums in the past...

Some I really dislike:

Rhapsody - well enough said all of their albums just don't sit right with me
Virgin Steele - House of Atreus ... way too pompous and self-important for my tastes
Ayeron's 010110101010101010 whatever... as the title suggests this is a concept about bar codes ... or numbers or some crap whatever the case the lyrics do read and sound like the contents of a milk carton...


As for symphonic albums - I don't mind them at all Therion, Nightwish, Dimmu Borgir, Kamelot all great bands utilising symphonic elements...


Unplugged - unnecessary

Although a few from my youth hold a special place in my heart (Mindcrime), I generally do not enjoy concept albums. When I hear news about a band's upcoming album being a concept album, I completely lose interest. There may be some good songs along the way, but I am not going to listen past all the sound effects, pseudo-drama, and dialogue to try and find them.

I feel kind of the same way with orchestration. Along with the "let's make a live album with an orchestra" thing, I do not like it when bands evolve into big, orchestral Metal bands (Iced Earth, Kamelot, Blind Guardian, Therion)...it all just seems bloated and unnecessary. Many times this element is paired with/part of the whole concept album thing and I just can't be bothered.

Once both of the above elements became such common parts of the landscape in Metal, it all just seemed boring to me. "Oh, another orchestrated concept album...yay."

As for acoustic renderings, I like the occasional bonus track or short acoustic set...I even liked MTV Unplugged...but entire "unplugged" albums can be a little boring.

[As far as "conceptual songs" - I don't think these should be lumped in the same category as concept albums because it is just an isolated story within that particular song. In fact if you hate Priest's Lochness, well you may as well hate every song you've come across because each song will be telling some sort of story ... unless of course it's some poppy glam song that talks about having sex (nothing wrong with that).

However, I do agree with the essence of your post: there are way too many conceptual turds around and oh boy the list is nearly infinite and from time to time it even includes albums by bands that have otherwise written and recorded very good albums in the past...]


I never said that I don't like songs that tell a story. Obviously, most songs have some type of story. I was just saying that Lochness was a TERRIBLE song - bloated with unbelievably stupid subject matter. Of course this one crap song was the template for Nostradamus.

Witchfinder wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

HAHAHAHA! You hate everything that I like about metal or even some bands that I listen to. If you don't like those things then simply don't buy the albums. Nowadays you can preview just about everything.

I don't particulary care for some concept albums. Like Gamma Ray has gone a bit far and even Rhapsody, but thats what I expect from those bands. It's no different than going to a movie.

If bands don't do things out of the ordinary then things just get too be samey and boring after a while. Bands need to take risks in order for them to survive. Some can really make something great others just fall flat and try to get back to what they are known to do.

Maybe you just don't let your musical tastes go further than what your used to. I love metal and everything about it, but theres also times when I just don't feel "Metal" and need other styles of music to be influenced by or to mellow out to.

Allow me to retort: I never said I bought these terrible albums not knowing what they were. Certainly in 2011 I don't blindly buy any album. Also, I don't recall Motorhead or AC/DC having trouble not surviving playing the same style for 20+ albums.

My musical tastes are just fine thank you and I when I want something lighter I'll listen to old Aerosmith or Zep. I am not a musician however so I understand that they are facets of albums that mean nothing to me that might have great relevance to a musician. I have hated concept albums since I first became aware of them in the 80's. They are self indulgent to the nth degree.

Motorhead has changed a little bit through the years not dramatically but just little things here or there. I can agree with AC/DC they basically sound the same just a little slower. Most bands though at some point in time do change things up a bit.

I don't want to turn this into an argument because everyone likes what they like for whatever reason it is. If you think about it though how many songs have the same subject matter with just different lyrics?

Gilbert wrote:

krokus wrote:

I dont like UNPLUGGEL/ACOUSTIC albums. I only have one, by KISS and only played it 3 times.
I dont like Symphonic accompaniment albums if you talk about what KISS, METALLICA or SCORPIONS did, very bad, specialy the METALLICA one.
I dont care much about CONCEPT ALBUMS because i dont follow most of the lirics of the music i play.
I AGREE WITH YOU WITCHFINDER.

Long live Krokus and Witchfinder

HAIL TO YOU GILBERT, you are the man

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

Witchfinder wrote:

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

HAHAHAHA! You hate everything that I like about metal or even some bands that I listen to. If you don't like those things then simply don't buy the albums. Nowadays you can preview just about everything.

I don't particulary care for some concept albums. Like Gamma Ray has gone a bit far and even Rhapsody, but thats what I expect from those bands. It's no different than going to a movie.

If bands don't do things out of the ordinary then things just get too be samey and boring after a while. Bands need to take risks in order for them to survive. Some can really make something great others just fall flat and try to get back to what they are known to do.

Maybe you just don't let your musical tastes go further than what your used to. I love metal and everything about it, but theres also times when I just don't feel "Metal" and need other styles of music to be influenced by or to mellow out to.

Allow me to retort: I never said I bought these terrible albums not knowing what they were. Certainly in 2011 I don't blindly buy any album. Also, I don't recall Motorhead or AC/DC having trouble not surviving playing the same style for 20+ albums.

My musical tastes are just fine thank you and I when I want something lighter I'll listen to old Aerosmith or Zep. I am not a musician however so I understand that they are facets of albums that mean nothing to me that might have great relevance to a musician. I have hated concept albums since I first became aware of them in the 80's. They are self indulgent to the nth degree.

Motorhead has changed a little bit through the years not dramatically but just little things here or there. I can agree with AC/DC they basically sound the same just a little slower. Most bands though at some point in time do change things up a bit.

I don't want to turn this into an argument because everyone likes what they like for whatever reason it is. If you think about it though how many songs have the same subject matter with just different lyrics?

Hold on a minute! Are you saying that musical taste is subjective?!!!

Alex Dee Rokket wrote:

I haven't caught up on reading all the replies but my rule of thumb when it comes to liking or disliking something is to have an open mind - rather than hating a particular genre I give the band a fair chance rather than place myself in strict niches.

In saying that, I have found some symphonic and conceptual albums highly enjoyable and others sounding like the band is singing the contents of a milk carton (which I believe Ayeron did at one point lol).

In any case, the really good concept albums I've come across:

WASP's Crimson Idol
Queensryche's Operation Mindcrime
Ayeron's Into the Electric Castle and The Human Condition
Virgin Steele's Marriage of Heaven and Hell (pts 1 & 2) and Invictus
Grave Digger's Excalibur and Tunes of War
Blind Guardian's Somewhere Far Beyond

Symphony X are also really good storytellers however their albums aren't necessarily based on a single concept from start to finish (although I believe V: Mythology Suite is).

As far as "conceptual songs" - I don't think these should be lumped in the same category as concept albums because it is just an isolated story within that particular song. In fact if you hate Priest's Lochness, well you may as well hate every song you've come across because each song will be telling some sort of story ... unless of course it's some poppy glam song that talks about having sex (nothing wrong with that).

However, I do agree with the essence of your post: there are way too many conceptual turds around and oh boy the list is nearly infinite and from time to time it even includes albums by bands that have otherwise written and recorded very good albums in the past...

Some I really dislike:

Rhapsody - well enough said all of their albums just don't sit right with me
Virgin Steele - House of Atreus ... way too pompous and self-important for my tastes
Ayeron's 010110101010101010 whatever... as the title suggests this is a concept about bar codes ... or numbers or some crap whatever the case the lyrics do read and sound like the contents of a milk carton...


As for symphonic albums - I don't mind them at all Therion, Nightwish, Dimmu Borgir, Kamelot all great bands utilising symphonic elements...


Unplugged - unnecessary

Paradise Lost is another Symphony X cocept album. I kind of agree the Ayreon lyrics on the last album were out there, but I love the music no matter what Arjen is saying.

It's all good some just don't see it!

Wargod52

One concept album i find to be amazing is nostradamus.

!. Concept albums can be awesome-see Dr.Know's Wreckage In Flesh, Iron Maiden's Seventh Son of a Seventh Son, King Diamond's Them(. Sorry, I happen to like it) Even Vektor's Black Future is a sort of concept album.

2.I love albums by Bal-Sagoth and Sigh, so I definitly think symphonic/classical elements can add to a metal album.

3.Obviously, you have never heard of Opeth's Damnation album.

Damnation is not really an accoustic album, just a mellow album of 70s style prog rock. Still, it is an awesome album IMO.

1.) Concept albums are good when done right.
2.)Depends on the band, but mostly I can do without this as well.
3.)Unplugged albums are good, but I prefer my metal plugged in as well

1)Hmmmmmmmmmm, let's see If the so-called "concept" ws never disclosed beforehand and one had to guess what it was. Now that would be interesting. More often than not, I kind/sorta scratch my head and go "okay"

2)Boring. I can only listen to clasical by itself in small doses and only certain composers. None of them are in Metallica or KISS or Scorpions.

3)Being that I grew up with acoustic guitars being played at the river or the park and in the smoking area at school, I can appreciate it. Some songs don't transpose well on acoustic and then you have the dynamic of vocal performance that limits the emphasis of a song in it's original form. "Hard Luck Woman" by KISS works well. But could you imagine Slayer playing "Angel of Death" acoustic ? Nope

I have to flat out disagree with the first. Once again. Huge gamer here so I guess the whole dragons,aliens and robots thing just appeals to me!

2.....it depends,over used its too much,if it adds nothing to atmosphere its useless. Unless were talking avant garde metal,then nothing is really taboo.