My beef with (some) Christian Metal.

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

Maybe so... but i don't think people generally respect a band as much when they are obviously a knock off of another band.

There's nothing wrong with being influenced by other bands (obviously) but when you try to become that influence it starts to get lame.

Sometimes i wonder if Agent Steel is your favorite band ToB.

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

That's true and they are usually billed as tribute bands.

manny wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

That's true and they are usually billed as tribute bands.

Troublezone wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

Maybe so... but i don't think people generally respect a band as much when they are obviously a knock off of another band.

There's nothing wrong with being influenced by other bands (obviously) but when you try to become that influence it starts to get lame.

I dont know - a lot of the AC/DC clone bands enjoy a solid following here...

Regardless of what a band does, they will have their influences and some bands let that influence become more apparent than others. They may not get an A for originality but if its well done I have two good bands to listen to.

exact33 wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

Maybe so... but i don't think people generally respect a band as much when they are obviously a knock off of another band.

There's nothing wrong with being influenced by other bands (obviously) but when you try to become that influence it starts to get lame.

I dont know - a lot of the AC/DC clone bands enjoy a solid following here...

Regardless of what a band does, they will have their influences and some bands let that influence become more apparent than others. They may not get an A for originality but if its well done I have two good bands to listen to.

Too bad you don't have 50 bands that sound the same to listen to.

I don't listen to many Christian bands (and any I do listen to I've just started in the past year) so I don't know of any examples of what you're talking about. But basically, I agree with what most people are saying -- it's their right to write.

ultmetal wrote:

Back in the 90's I walked into a CD store in Albuquerque. I found Ultimatum's CD, that was being distributed by Diamante at the time, in the "gospel" section with The Winans, Amy Grant, etc. Mortification were on the same label but were being distributed at the time by Metal Blade and were in the metal/rock section. I asked the clerk at the store why a metal band was in the Gospel section. He said "because they are Christian metal". He obviously didn't know I was in the band. I then asked about Morty and he said, well, they are not a Christian band, they are on Metal Blade. Of course, I corrected him and told him he was wrong, to which he just said, well Ultimatum is distributed by a Christian distributer. I was a bit irritated so I asked him where the Satan section was because I wanted to buy a King Diamond CD. I also wanted to know where the Hari Krishna section was so that I could buy a Cro-Mags CD. (Obviously being a smart a$$) However, I made my point. It's all just metal.

Troublezone wrote:

Sometimes i wonder if Agent Steel is your favorite band ToB.

?

No, but I do enjoy them. I think the differences between us and them are obvious, and will be even more so on our upcoming disc.

AS are a cool band, but not even in my top 20 favorite metal bands of all-time.

manny wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

That's true and they are usually billed as tribute bands.

Yeah, and they usually only play shows and don't release studio material.

Troublezone wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

Maybe so... but i don't think people generally respect a band as much when they are obviously a knock off of another band.

There's nothing wrong with being influenced by other bands (obviously) but when you try to become that influence it starts to get lame.

I dont know - a lot of the AC/DC clone bands enjoy a solid following here...

Regardless of what a band does, they will have their influences and some bands let that influence become more apparent than others. They may not get an A for originality but if its well done I have two good bands to listen to.

Too bad you don't have 50 bands that sound the same to listen to.

do you have 50 bands that you deem worthy to listen to?

exact33 wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

It takes a certain amount of skill to effectively clone a band anyway ....

Maybe so... but i don't think people generally respect a band as much when they are obviously a knock off of another band.

There's nothing wrong with being influenced by other bands (obviously) but when you try to become that influence it starts to get lame.

I dont know - a lot of the AC/DC clone bands enjoy a solid following here...

Regardless of what a band does, they will have their influences and some bands let that influence become more apparent than others. They may not get an A for originality but if its well done I have two good bands to listen to.

Too bad you don't have 50 bands that sound the same to listen to.

do you have 50 bands that you deem worthy to listen to?

Of coarse! but they don't sound the same...

Testament, Overkill, Dark Angel, Coroner, Iron Maiden, Metal Church etc...

Troublezone wrote:

I always thought Randy Rose was trying to be a Christian Danzig.

On his first album (SACRIFICIUM), definitely. I dig that album, but if Randy ever denies that he was trying to be a "Christian Danzig" on that record he's lyin' thru his teeth. I mean, you could pass that record off as a long lost Danzig demo or something and people would never be able to tell the difference.

I don't care if there are a few bands that sound similar... i.e. Rhino Bucket or Airbourne. It just can potentionally get ridiculous when a million bands start to sound the same.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I always thought Randy Rose was trying to be a Christian Danzig.

On his first album (SACRIFICIUM), definitely. I dig that album, but if Randy ever denies that he was trying to be a "Christian Danzig" on that record he's lyin' thru his teeth. I mean, you could pass that record off as a long lost Danzig demo or something and people would never be able to tell the difference.

And they always have the perfect alibi... (we are just trying to give the kids an aternative to the evil stuff).

Troublezone wrote:

I don't care if there are a few bands that sound similar... i.e. Rhino Bucket or Airbourne. It just can potentionally get ridiculous when a million bands start to sound the same.

Yeah.

But I think that's the law of diminishing returns.

If, for example, TESTAMENT retired of didn't release a studio album for another 10 years, I could see a clone band being pretty successful in the metal community.

Part of HAMMERFALL's success was that people hadn't heard many new bands that sounded like that in a while because that sound had for the most part gone away ...

At least Living Sacrifice moved on real quick from their one and only Slayer worship album. Even though that is my favorite by them... I wouldn't want to hear that for their whole career.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I don't care if there are a few bands that sound similar... i.e. Rhino Bucket or Airbourne. It just can potentionally get ridiculous when a million bands start to sound the same.

Yeah.

But I think that's the law of diminishing returns.

If, for example, TESTAMENT retired of didn't release a studio album for another 10 years, I could see a clone band being pretty successful in the metal community.

Part of HAMMERFALL's success was that people hadn't heard many new bands that sounded like that in a while because that sound had for the most part gone away ...

Like i said, i don't mind a few bands... but i don't want a bunch of wannabes everywhere i turn. I see your point about a "replacement" band for a void left by a retired band. But do you really want to hear 10 or more bands that sound the exact same?

Troublezone wrote:

Like i said, i don't mind a few bands... but i don't want a bunch of wannabes everywhere i turn. I see your point about a "replacement" band for a void left by a retired band. But do you really want to hear 10 or more bands that sound the exact same?

No, I am with you on that one.

I want bands to find their own way and tweak their respective genres in their own way and through this natural process new genres will be created.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

Like i said, i don't mind a few bands... but i don't want a bunch of wannabes everywhere i turn. I see your point about a "replacement" band for a void left by a retired band. But do you really want to hear 10 or more bands that sound the exact same?

No, I am with you on that one.

I want bands to find their own way and tweak their respective genres in their own way and through this natural process new genres will be created.

When a band is young and starting out they tend to wear their influence on their sleeve. But i think they should eventually try to find their own sound.

Some other bands spend their career milking the tribute thing.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I always thought Randy Rose was trying to be a Christian Danzig.

On his first album (SACRIFICIUM), definitely. I dig that album, but if Randy ever denies that he was trying to be a "Christian Danzig" on that record he's lyin' thru his teeth. I mean, you could pass that record off as a long lost Danzig demo or something and people would never be able to tell the difference.

I remember listening to it and someone came and thought it was a Danzig demo!!! Of course, the production quality was about Danzig Demo quality.

I remember when the first WhiteCross came out - it was total RATT worship right down to the riffs. Of course Scott sounds a heluva lot like Steven.

The first Barren Cross had some Maiden worship, but they evolved into their own sound.

For AOR, Petra directly stole riffs from Def Lep (I Am On the Rock is Pour Some Sugar On Me) and Kiss (Seen and Not Heard is Heaven's On Fire). If Gene wrote Heaven's On Fire, there would have been a law suit to add Gene's name to the song writer. But, it was Paul and I am sure he never heard the song.

Quote :

The first Barren Cross had some Maiden worship, but they evolved into their own sound.

Maiden were definitely an influence....Mike's vox were definitely Bruce Dickinson-ian, and the very up front, prominent bass playing seemed very much like Steve Harris' as well. However, the band's guitar sound was totally '80s L.A. metal.

Iron Maiden never dressed quite as funny as BC did on the original ROCK FOR THE KING album cover either.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Quote :

The first Barren Cross had some Maiden worship, but they evolved into their own sound.

Maiden were definitely an influence....Mike's vox were definitely Bruce Dickinson-ian, and the very up front, prominent bass playing seemed very much like Steve Harris' as well. However, the band's guitar sound was totally '80s L.A. metal.

Iron Maiden never dressed quite as funny as BC did on the original ROCK FOR THE KING album cover either.

I agree that the guitar sound was nothing close to Maiden.

I think all this "clone" stuff is being a tad overanalytical. I used to do the same thing, deride bands for "lack of originality", etc. In the end, it still comes down to "if you don't like it, don't listen to it". If one AC/DC is enough for you, then cool. If you can't get enough of what you love, there are other bands to feed the beast with.

Like I said, in this day and age, with Heavy Metal being 40 years old, true, absolute originality is hard to come by. As long as a band is good at what they do and are enjoying it, someone else will enjoy it too.

In the 80's I think it was a big deal if you were a Christian rock band and it was looked at as novelity, growing up in the 80's I do remember the youth group I would attend to get free grub on Wednesday was always trying to sell me bands as an alternative to secular metal, I thought it was silly nonesense, all I cared about was the music.

Now adays metal and music industry as become so fragmented, that I am not even sure if some of the big independant Christian labels such as Starsong exist, but I do remember picking up the first Stryper album because I was curious what a Christian metal band would sound like, it turns out not much different then a non Christian hair band.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

I think all this "clone" stuff is being a tad overanalytical. I used to do the same thing, deride bands for "lack of originality", etc. In the end, it still comes down to "if you don't like it, don't listen to it". If one AC/DC is enough for you, then cool. If you can't get enough of what you love, there are other bands to feed the beast with.

Like I said, in this day and age, with Heavy Metal being 40 years old, true, absolute originality is hard to come by. As long as a band is good at what they do and are enjoying it, someone else will enjoy it too.

+1