Was Dave Mustaine the father of thrash metal?

MetalRob331 wrote:

You cant pinpoint any one person in the genre really.

Why not? We have the releases, we have interviews from people around at the time. We have evidence. Why is it impossible to see who the principal music instigator was?

If not the father of thrash metal certainly he was a founding father and easily the best.

Temple of Blood wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

You cant pinpoint any one person in the genre really.

Why not? We have the releases, we have interviews from people around at the time. We have evidence. Why is it impossible to see who the principal music instigator was?

Because there was too many bands doing thrash at the same time IMO. James Hetfield recorded Hit the Lights if Im not mistaken before Mustaine even joined Metallica. Mustaine is just a household name in the thrash genre and was in 2 of the biggest thrash bands, that is why I think he is mentioned.

As far as releases those really arent accurate, a band can play for years before releasing any material to the public. IMO Venom was the first band to really start thrash. Motorhead as well had tons of thrash elements in there music.

Again I really cant pinpoint who it was but Mustaine it def is not.

How'bout we all simply agree that Al Gore invented thrash metal. You know, like he invented the Internet.

MetalRob331 wrote:

IMO Venom was the first band to really start thrash. Motorhead as well had tons of thrash elements in there music.

I have to disagree with that. Venom and Motorhead both had occasional elements of what we now call thrash, but for both bands it was a minor part of their sound. No one listening to either band can say thrash is the totality, or even the majority, of their style.

Metallica was definitely the first honest to goodness THRASH band. You could say that Venom and Motorhead had influences, but the occasional pieces they both used were built upon and pushed to their extremes in such a way as to make them something new. However, even the basic block that Venom pushed to extremes was simply NWOBHM. Venom and Motorhead may have occasionally dabbled, but Metallica took the ball and ran with it.

As far as Overkill goes, you are talking about a band that until around '85 or '86 had a sound more rooted in speed metal than full-fledged thrash.

Fat Freddy wrote:

How'bout we all simply agree that Al Gore invented thrash metal. You know, like he invented the Internet.

Are you trying tell me Al Gore didnot invent the internet!?!?!? Another myth shattered.

MetalRob331 wrote:

Because there was too many bands doing thrash at the same time IMO. James Hetfield recorded Hit the Lights if Im not mistaken before Mustaine even joined Metallica. Mustaine is just a household name in the thrash genre and was in 2 of the biggest thrash bands, that is why I think he is mentioned.

I was going to mention this when the thread started, but I've been farting around doing other things. You hit the nail on the head with this. Hit The Lights was written before Mustaine ever entered the picture, and Motorbreath is the only Metallica song written by a singular individual, that being Hetfield. Guys like Mustaine and Hetfield are simply a part of the puzzle regarding that aggressive stlye back in the day. If anything they perfected that type of music.

i heard Randy Blythe was the father of thrash. i think SideShow mentioned it.

SideShowDisaSter wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

IMO Venom was the first band to really start thrash. Motorhead as well had tons of thrash elements in there music.

I have to disagree with that. Venom and Motorhead both had occasional elements of what we now call thrash, but for both bands it was a minor part of their sound. No one listening to either band can say thrash is the totality, or even the majority, of their style.

Metallica was definitely the first honest to goodness THRASH band. You could say that Venom and Motorhead had influences, but the occasional pieces they both used were built upon and pushed to their extremes in such a way as to make them something new. However, even the basic block that Venom pushed to extremes was simply NWOBHM. Venom and Motorhead may have occasionally dabbled, but Metallica took the ball and ran with it.

As far as Overkill goes, you are talking about a band that until around '85 or '86 had a sound more rooted in speed metal than full-fledged thrash.

What I was saying is that Venom and Motorhead really had the first known elements of thrash. I agree Metallica were def the first thrash band to perfect the sound and run with it.

mc666 wrote:

i heard Randy Blythe was the father of thrash. i think SideShow mentioned it.

Even though I was on the butt-end of this joke, I have to say that you are the KING of the hit-and-run comedy, MC!

MetalRob331 wrote:

What I was saying is that Venom and Motorhead really had the first known elements of thrash. I agree Metallica were def the first thrash band to perfect the sound and run with it.

I understand that. However, I don't think you can credit someone with being the creator of something if that isn't really what they did. Influential to creating, but not the actual creator itself.

MOST DEFINITELY NOT

Metallica were there before Dave Mustaine - "Hit the Lights" is, to me, the first 100% thrash song ever recorded. And that was just James and Lars.

Dave should of course get a lot of credit and I do agree with most that has been said, but aren't you forgetting a certain somebody named Kirk Hammett? - He was in Exodus, also one of the originators of the styles. Dave has been whining non-stop about his music being used on Kill 'em All, but he's acting like he wrote the ENTIRE album - He did not. When Kirk joined Metallica, they perfected the album. Dave had probably written several riffs, but credit must be given to James and Kirk - James wrote the riffs to songs like Seek and Destroy and No Remorse, while Kirk took Dave's solo's and made them much better. He only used about the first four bars of those 4-5 solo's of his that were actually used for the album. Dave had intensity, but Kirk had feel.

Metallica also pretty much origninated the Melodic Thrash sound, or Speed Metal - Megadeth are always claimed to be the originators of this style, but already in 1984 Metallica had released Ride the Lightning - Other than a few bars in the first solo in the title track, Dave can take no credit for this masterpiece and milestone - RTL was so ahead of it's time, and it blows the first two Megadeth albums out of the water, IMO. Kirk also wrote the classic riff for "Creeping Death", which was actually written way back in his Exodus days. To me, Dave is a whiny smurfette. He did play a big part in the evolvment of thrash though, but he is certainly not the Thrash god that everyone seems to see him as, including himself.

No. Next question please.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Metallica also pretty much origninated the Melodic Thrash sound, or Speed Metal - Megadeth are always claimed to be the originators of this style, but already in 1984 Metallica had released Ride the Lightning - Other than a few bars in the first solo in the title track, Dave can take no credit for this masterpiece and milestone - RTL was so ahead of it's time, and it blows the first two Megadeth albums out of the water, IMO. Kirk also wrote the classic riff for "Creeping Death", which was actually written way back in his Exodus days. To me, Dave is a whiny smurfette. He did play a big part in the evolvment of thrash though, but he is certainly not the Thrash god that everyone seems to see him as, including himself.

Yep, if we all said yes that would give Dave more reason to think he is some metal god. Dave is a great thrash guitar player and leadman but thats as far as it gets for me.

O did I mention he knows karate and he slept with your g/f.

MetalRob331 wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Metallica also pretty much origninated the Melodic Thrash sound, or Speed Metal - Megadeth are always claimed to be the originators of this style, but already in 1984 Metallica had released Ride the Lightning - Other than a few bars in the first solo in the title track, Dave can take no credit for this masterpiece and milestone - RTL was so ahead of it's time, and it blows the first two Megadeth albums out of the water, IMO. Kirk also wrote the classic riff for "Creeping Death", which was actually written way back in his Exodus days. To me, Dave is a whiny smurfette. He did play a big part in the evolvment of thrash though, but he is certainly not the Thrash god that everyone seems to see him as, including himself.

Yep, if we all said yes that would give Dave more reason to think he is some metal god. Dave is a great thrash guitar player and leadman but thats as far as it gets for me.

O did I mention he knows karate and he slept with your g/f.

Haha, he is pathetic. You'd think at age 47 he'd mature a bit - Oh he most certainly did, now he's a so-called Christian and self proclaimed legend. What a tool

I wouldn't say he's the father of thrash, but he did have a big hand in the development of it.

Dave is one of the forefathers. James and Lars are the others.

I have been following Dave's music from his first album,saw the tour too. He is one of founders of the genre but like so many of you guys have mentioned there were others that were running with that ball too. It was a new style at the time and it was making a huge wave, but these guys all knew each other or of each other and were feeding off of that energy. Metallica was probably the first to really get noticed but there were plenty of others that should have been recognized before they were. But my opinion is that he should be at least in the top 5 but really shouldn't get all the credit.

Self proclaimed legend? Maybe but he backs it well.

I see the young guys are the one's that disagree. Interesting.

I think if a guy like Scott Ian, who himself is one of the originators of the thrash sound, says that Mustaine is the father of thrash, I'd tend to believe him.

Sounds like Mglaffas81 just has a beef with Dave in general.

sure, why not.

ultmetal wrote:

I see the young guys are the one's that disagree. Interesting.

I didn't disagree; i just said that he wasn't alone in crafting the thrash metal genre. Unless of course you didn't mean to include me in the "youngin" catagory, then never mind.

as an early writer/player in one of the first thrash bands...how can he not be considered one of the fathers?