What would happen if Nirvana hadn't come in the spotlight 1991

I went to school with Kurt and Chris from Nirvana, Chris was a metal head back in high school, Kurt was an outcast and not too many people really knew him. I hated Nirvana, but I have to agree that some changes needed to be made.

RimShot wrote:

I went to school with Kurt and Chris from Nirvana, Chris was a metal head back in high school, Kurt was an outcast and not too many people really knew him. I hated Nirvana, but I have to agree that some changes needed to be made.

Kurt Cobain was also a metal fan just not one that adverstied it, he was huge Black Sabbath and KISS fan, even did a cover tune of KISS classic, also they used to perform Led Zeppelin songs as evidence in the boxset, and no he was not taking a piss at it, he also used to describe Nirvana's sound as "Bay City Rollers being molested by Black Sabbath" he hated hair metal and his primary influences were underground bands.

Yup their KISS cover is great, I was gonna say that Kurt was a big Sabbath and Kiss fan, Kurt had broad tastes, Ledbelly, David Bowie (rock on) , Melvins, Sonic Youth

One thing I think is Kurt liked to do covers to get people to buy the music of the people he liked and it worked it was because of Kurt that i started buying up David Bowie Albums in the 90s my first Bowie album was Man Who Sold The World

Yeah, I never really knew Kurt. We were about three years apart and our paths never crossed. I was good friends with Chris and I remember he played bass in a band called "The Melvins". They opened up for Metal Church who was also from our area. He dove into the crowd and some girl bit him in the side. He showed me the folling week and it was all infected and stuff...lol. he was one of the funniest guys I've ever known.

OT: I hated being a brother-in-name with that guy.

kmorg wrote:

OT: I hated being a brother-in-name with that guy.

Chris?

RimShot wrote:

kmorg wrote:

OT: I hated being a brother-in-name with that guy.

Chris?

The other one...

Oh, great. I talked to Chris a little bit around our 20 year class reunion. Neither one of us went. He is really into politics now. I'm sure he has changed quite a bit since high school but he still seems like a prety cool guy.

Aside from all of the personal interactions with some of the members of Nirvana, I didn't like the turn to what I call Nerd rock. I hate alternative. The metal side of it wasn't bad but when I saw a bunch of nerds wearing plaid and glasses and not knowing how to play guitar solos, it totally blew! I use to beat these guys up in when I was a kid...lol. not really, but that was a terrible genre IMO.

Kurt was such a polarizing figure for MYSELF. On the one hand, I could appreciate his talent as a musician, but I came to loathe him as a person. In many ways the guy was a charlatan, and unfortunately much of the youth of American bought into it. He greatly embellished his upbringing (which can be corroborated in the book "Heavier than Heaven" by those who knew him growing up). This is important, in the sense that he used his whiny disposition as a platform to lead many of his idol followers towards a path of self-destruction.

The self-destruction that I'm referring to were the senseless suicides by teens that happened days/weeks/months after Kurt took his own life, and all because their idol took his life. These weren't isolated incidents either, they were occurring all over the country. Why do I blame Kurt? Because he married that stupid broad Courtney Love (who supposedly was his intellectual equivalent). She decided that it was a good idea to gather up all Kurt's idol worshiping fans in a Seattle setting and read Kurt's suicide letter. On top of that, let's make sure that every media outlet including MTV is there to cover the event. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Kurt instructed that stupid ditz to read his suicide note, and YES, his death was a SUICIDE. I know Kurt Cobain conspiracy theorists want to try and use revisionist history on its all to willing brain dead followers to somehow depict how Courtney was actually behind this supposed murder. In order for that to actually take place, one would actually have to fool the police. There aren't enough brain cells in Courtney's head to pull that off!

Kurt IMO became a product of his own B.S, and was an excuse maker all the way to the end.

RimShot wrote:

Aside from all of the personal interactions with some of the members of Nirvana, I didn't like the turn to what I call Nerd rock. I hate alternative. The metal side of it wasn't bad but when I saw a bunch of nerds wearing plaid and glasses and not knowing how to play guitar solos, it totally blew! I use to beat these guys up in when I was a kid...lol. not really, but that was a terrible genre IMO.

I liked alot of the bands that were labeled as alternative, I just think like anything else record labels are very good at killing a scene.

manny wrote:

RimShot wrote:

Aside from all of the personal interactions with some of the members of Nirvana, I didn't like the turn to what I call Nerd rock. I hate alternative. The metal side of it wasn't bad but when I saw a bunch of nerds wearing plaid and glasses and not knowing how to play guitar solos, it totally blew! I use to beat these guys up in when I was a kid...lol. not really, but that was a terrible genre IMO.

I liked alot of the bands that were labeled as alternative, I just think like anything else record labels are very good at killing a scene.

Agreed

Heavier than Heaven is a GREAT read. Alot of the book Come as You Are was made up or embellished. Though I do have to say Kurt hated the spotlight Courtney loved it, If Kurt was alive he would be disgusted I think if he saw his journals published, to see what he's become I think he'd hate it. But I could be wrong I never knew the guy I can just go on what ive seen and read which is alot

Quote :

Dont forget BORING too, That was one of Kurt's qualms with Heavy Metal was that right there, He classified it as people singing about Girls and their how big their genitalia was. I agree big time with Candlemass' statement. In fact i found Nirvana to be very inspiring

If you don't like it fine but that's a huge stereotype that the media perpetuated. Some hair metal groups were doing that a lot but if you dig into the music it's not all there was. And a lot of groups outside of hair metal like Metal Church, Armored Saint, Vicious Rumors and your thrash groups, weren't singing that stuff at all.

NumbskullakaNazgul wrote:

Quote :

Dont forget BORING too, That was one of Kurt's qualms with Heavy Metal was that right there, He classified it as people singing about Girls and their how big their genitalia was. I agree big time with Candlemass' statement. In fact i found Nirvana to be very inspiring

If you don't like it fine but that's a huge stereotype that the media perpetuated. Some hair metal groups were doing that a lot but if you dig into the music it's not all there was. And a lot of groups outside of hair metal like Metal Church, Armored Saint, Vicious Rumors and your thrash groups, weren't singing that stuff at all.

You're right but IMO I think that grunge/alternative was embraced by MTV and with it's big influences on the music industry, they were chosen over the thrash/power metal scene. I'm guessing that they wanted a total direction change. But if you notice, even though it may not be the the true metal we know and love, metal has flowed through the veigns of alternative and intertwined to create a lot of the big name bands today. Metal only stays buried for a short time then rises again to take over and consume all in it's way. LONG LIVE METAL...sorry, just playing the moment. Love metal though.

I agree and Im not saying ALL but alot of the popular Hair metal in the day was, Though, I think Metal was on the beginning of a decline before Nirvana broke through anyway, I mean come on #1 was Michael Jackson he had to be knocked off. IMO Alternative/Grunge is just another music branch on the Tree we call Music that for a time was in the spotlight just like Metal was in the spotlight for a time.

Addy wrote:

I agree and Im not saying ALL but alot of the popular Hair metal in the day was, Though, I think Metal was on the beginning of a decline before Nirvana broke through anyway, I mean come on #1 was Michael Jackson he had to be knocked off. IMO Alternative/Grunge is just another music branch on the Tree we call Music that for a time was in the spotlight just like Metal was in the spotlight for a time.

Michael Jackson knocked himself off. All one has to do is look at the album covers of "Off The Wall", "Thriller", and then "Bad" to see his gradual progression into "freakdom". We all know that it got much worse after that, not only that regarding his appearance, but also his penchant for having young ones stay over at the ranch.

Hey, wasn't he born a black child?

RimShot wrote:

Hey, wasn't he born a black child?

That's what I thought also. I thought it was hilarious when Michael wanted the "Off The Wall" album's cover changed a few years back. The newest versions now just show his feet. I guess he hated the way he looked back then. I guess he hated looking like a normal guy?

Random Michael Jackson note:

Anybody remember when the sketch comedy show "In Living Color" parodied MJ's "Black or White" video? At the end when "Michael" (played by Tommy Davidson) smashed up the car, there's a cop standing there who sez "Son, what do you think you're doing?" Michael sez "Officer, you've got to help me! I dont' know if I'm black or white!" The cop sez "You're under arrest!" and Michael sez "Oh... so I guess I AM black."

I watched a documentary on him a few years back. It was actually pretty sad what he's went through in life. Difficulties make some people stronger and others freaks I guess.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Random Michael Jackson note:

Anybody remember when the sketch comedy show "In Living Color" parodied MJ's "Black or White" video? At the end when "Michael" (played by Tommy Davidson) smashed up the car, there's a cop standing there who sez "Son, what do you think you're doing?" Michael sez "Officer, you've got to help me! I dont' know if I'm black or white!" The cop sez "You're under arrest!" and Michael sez "Oh... so I guess I AM black."

This episode sounds vaguely familiar. That's awesome!!!

LMAO I remember that

I agree that Courtney Love was/is a total dirtbag scrounge. And, stooping low enough to marry a woman like this says volumes about the guy, doesn't it? When I first heard her speak, I lost a tremendous amount of respect for Cobain. Then, I heard him speak and lost even more. Long after he passed, Courtney thought it was a terrificly good, money-making idea to release his journal of personal thoughts for the world to dissect. Thereafter, I began believing that Cobain was as shallow and retarded as a box of square marbles. Which was quite perplexing to me, because, on the other hand, the art which sprang from his mind, was, in a very tortured and profound way, utterly brilliant. Is this kind of duplicity common for our lot of beings?

Somehow, some way, the guy had an awfully big knack for putting together tremendously appealing, heartfelt melodies. This cat had a real strong talent as a songwriter. I believe that he was in the league of a John Lennon or Bob Dylan. Just different eras, so different results. And, ya can't train for this sorta thing. You just 'is' or you ain't. His songs exemplified a whole range of complex ideas and depth of emotion which the man would never be able to convey to another human being in conversation. He wasn't what you'd think of as an 'articulate' man. But, at the same time, he was significantly deeper than most individuals. Yet, you'd never be able to uncover this from what was written in that crumby journal of his.

The strange thing about that kinda innate talent which Cobain possessed is that one can have it as a fundamental part of their personality, yet never let it rise to the surface, never hone in on it, never release it and sculpt it....Dave Grohl is a good example of this. For years he remained in the background of that group. Creative demands were never placed upon him and he was totally content with being a top notch drummer. If Cobain never died, logic dictates that Grohl himself woulda never rose. There's a better chance than not that all those great Foo songs would never see the light of day.

The answer to the question as to what woulda happened if Nirvana hadn't entered the picture back in 1991, is that someone else, probably of equal caliber and revolutionary spirit woulda rose and filled that vacancy. I'm sure that you want to say, 'who' at this point. But, the answer doesn't necessarily need to be someone who was already around and known at the time. I think that it's the 'vacancy' itself which creates the 'demand', which, in turn, is met by forcing artists to scramble and devise a solution to the problem of 'the void'.

I'm a firm believer that the 'cream always rises'....minus the 'always' qualifier. I'm convinced that there are plenty of folks out there who have loads of inherent talent, but, of which, you and I will never hear about, because the environment available during their particular window of opportunity was never conducive to fostering and nourishing their particular gifts. What I'm trying to say here is that it's basically a matter of the right person at the right time. But, of course, this itself is still rather simplistic and not at all considerate of the incredible range of variables which need to be in place for a particular person, or a group to succeed in music. But, this concept extends to pretty much everything, in lesser degrees.

This example might serve to punch it all home...If Paul McCartney had never met John Lennon in their early 20's and let that collaborative union between them flourish, then it's very well possible that not only would we not know, The Beatles, but it's very likely that we'd never know Lennon or McCartney either. We'd like to think that Lennon and McCartney were so dang talented that regardless of them ever meeting, they'd still find a way of rising to that high stature, either on their own, or with other musicians. But, just contemplating for a moment how incredibly fortuitous are the many variables which lead to an artist's success, and we're left with a big, fat, "I just don't know". It's very well possible that if Lennon hadn't been abandoned by his mom and dad at such an early age, that the creative side of him would have never blossomed. And, maybe it's just as likely, that if McCartney had never heard Song X at the age of 9, he would have never picked up his first guitar. It might be as fragile and fleeting as that.

But, fact of the matter is that Kokk Rokk's long reign of the Pop charts had to eventually come to a close. Bands like Cinderella and Poison spoke to only the youngest of girls, and the most vacuous of adults. In retrospect, it's hard to believe that this type of music was ever more than just a short-lived trend. But, it kept growing and was ridiculously far-reaching, touching even the hard rock giants from the previous decade like Heart and Aerosmith. But, because of its super-glossy nature and lack of any substance, it had to be squashed by something which was its polar opposite. Something had to rise which was it's opposite in every way. Cobain and Co. fit that bill. Maybe the reason why Kokk Rokk survived so long was because a band like Nirvana is tremendously hard to come by. But, if it wasn't them, eventually another, just as power and revolutionary band would have rose to fill the void.

good post mark.