So, I purchased my first album ever from iTunes...

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

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No he doesn't. He owns nothing. He paid for the rights to put the songs on his Ipod and make one backup copy. He doesn't "own" anything.

He owns a copy of the end result of a musician's labor. He owns a copy of thier art. He just doesn't own a piece of plastic with a copy of the art on it.

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If I own something I can trade it, sell it, give it away, whatever.

It's called "Intellectual Property". You can't touch it or see it, but it's there. If you can hear it, it's real. That's the difference between aural art and visible art.

If you don't "own" music in an MP3 format, why is it considered stealing if someone downloads it without paying for it? How can you steal what cannot be owned?

I don't know. How is it stealing? Why is it considered stealing to download a MP3 without paying for it, yet if you do legitimately pay for it, you cannot resell it, trade it, or give it to someone else?

You do own the file, you have purchased the right to the audio. What you paid for was the right to that specific album...in that specific format. When you buy a CD you're paying for the rights to the audio, and also paying for the rights to the physical artwork....however, when you rip the CD to mp3 you're actually making an illegal copy in a different format (you don't own the rights to this format).

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I don't know. How is it stealing? Why is it considered stealing to download a MP3 without paying for it, yet if you do legitimately pay for it, you cannot resell it, trade it, or give it to someone else?

This is like the "how many licks" question with the Tootsie Pops...the world may never know.


I think (theory) that maybe because Intellectual Property isn't physically tangible, then by default it negates it from resaleability. How can one re-sell what cannot be touched or seen?

Music is aural...the audible results of ideas...invisible. When you're buying a CD you're paying (supposedly) the artist for thier labor/ideas but you're also buying a piece of plastic with a copy of thier art on it. When you buy an MP3 you're still (supposedly) paying an artist for thier labor/ideas, you just don't get the piece of plastic that goes with it.

Maybe when you're re-selling a CD (again, theory) you're technically re-selling a piece of plastic...what determines it's value is the copy of what's on the plastic.

detuned wrote:

You do own the file, you have purchased the right to the audio. What you paid for was the right to that specific album...in that specific format. When you buy a CD you're paying for the rights to the audio, and also paying for the rights to the physical artwork....however, when you rip the CD to mp3 you're actually making an illegal copy in a different format (you don't own the rights to this format).

Not true. It is not illegal to make your own MP3s. If it were, iTunes would be the first to scream about it and they make CD/MP3 conversion quite easy. It's illegal to make your own MP3s and sell them or give them away. However, it is not illegal to take a CD and put it on your iPod.

What these shows is that copyright laws have not caught up with technology, of course we have all known that for years.

Manny is correct, the music industry has been about 5 years behind the average consumer since the internet began...and copyright law is probably another 5 years behind the industry.

When you buy a CD you're paying the publisher/artist for the music contained within, you're paying mechanical royalties for the actual physical printing of the CD and artwork, the only difference with downloads is you don't have to pay the actual mechanical royalties.

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the only difference with downloads is you don't have to pay the actual mechanical royalties.

In other words, you're not paying for pressing because nothing was pressed.

You've still acquired some sort of ownership of the Intellectual Property in coded form.

manny wrote:

I third yours and Spectrefate's comments, I love owning the physical product, checking out the art work, reading the liner notes ,etc to me it is part of experience of buying a CD, and I am also like Spec that even if I have burned copy of CD I donot feel I own til I buy the real thing.

Yes, i agree too.

I got a 120 gig i-pod for Christmas, Its great to have the whole collection in one portable spot, I've listened to stuff I have'nt touched in years. I only get stuff I just cant find anywhere else on I-tunes, my wife isn't very musically inclined, she can get what she wants 1 song at a time & it frees up $ for me to buy CD's. She does'nt know that though..........

You should have spent it on some tunes not available anywhere else. Like the 3 bonus tracks from Alice's last effort, or the Iced Earth songs only on iTunes.

Hamer12 wrote:

I got a 120 gig i-pod for Christmas, Its great to have the whole collection in one portable spot, I've listened to stuff I have'nt touched in years.

Me too!!

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No he doesn't. He owns nothing. He paid for the rights to put the songs on his Ipod and make one backup copy. He doesn't "own" anything

Technically they are not MP3s they are FLAC format files What I do when I buy something from Itunes is I burn it to CD then convert it to Mp3 once you have done that you're not limited on the licenseing and what not.

I like Itunes but I also like to have the actual CD too

FLAC and MP3 are completely different animals. MP3 files are a compressed version of the original recording (lossy), so they are technically a lower quality than the CD version (although many people can't hear the difference). FLAC files on the other hand are identical data to the original file (lossless), so if you download them and burn them to disc you have an exact copy of the original file.

Some bands offer 2 different price points depending on the file type you want. The lossless files being worth more in this case.

Addy wrote:

Quote :

No he doesn't. He owns nothing. He paid for the rights to put the songs on his Ipod and make one backup copy. He doesn't "own" anything

Technically they are not MP3s they are FLAC format files What I do when I buy something from Itunes is I burn it to CD then convert it to Mp3 once you have done that you're not limited on the licenseing and what not.

I like Itunes but I also like to have the actual CD too

I do the same thing

Great minds think like us Skullsmasher

I do that too Addy. Never know when the ol' Puter will take a dump.

Yeah I really need to get an external Hard drive i got about 5000 songs on my PC about 20 gigs

Addy wrote:

Yeah I really need to get an external Hard drive i got about 5000 songs on my PC about 20 gigs

I was given a 500 gig external hard drive for Christmas.

I got a 500 gig last year and have using it store my tunes. I am in the process of recording much of my vinyl and this is a great way to keep it in electronic media form until I can bust it up and sort it out.

spectrefate wrote:

Quote :

Now I have the new King's X on my iPod, yet I still feel the need to go out and buy the actual CD from the store. Perhaps it's my age and growing up in the age or records and CDs, but I don't even feel I actually own this album until I purchase the CD.

This is exactly how I feel. It's like when I was a kid, I would make cassette dubs of albums from my friends, but until I actually bought a copy of the album I felt like I didn't own it.

Echo!!!


Btw, good thread and good discussions everyone. Peace.

People always give me the gift cards as presents. It actually works out pretty good because there are a lot of single songs that I wouldn't want the whole album for. Mainly a lot of old school rap and some alternative. Stuff for mixes on the ipod. I find it cool for that purpose. Never gotten an entire album though.

Lost almost all my purchased songs a few years back when my computer crashed and then shortly thereafter the ipod they were also on died on me. Taught me the valuable lesson to always back up.

While I do partake in some downloading, I agree with you people. I much prefer to own a CD than just the mp3s. Hardly anybody in my age group gets this. This is pretty much verbatim from a conversation at school the other day when I brought a Police CD:

Douche: Why do you have a Police CD?
Me: Because I like the Police
Douche: Don't you have, like, Limewire or anything?
Me: (Dramatic pause) Yeah, but I like CDs.
Douche: Why?

And I couldn't find an answer. I don't know why, but I like em.

Schbopo wrote:

While I do partake in some downloading, I agree with you people. I much prefer to own a CD than just the mp3s. Hardly anybody in my age group gets this. This is pretty much verbatim from a conversation at school the other day when I brought a Police CD:

Douche: Why do you have a Police CD?
Me: Because I like the Police
Douche: Don't you have, like, Limewire or anything?
Me: (Dramatic pause) Yeah, but I like CDs.
Douche: Why?

And I couldn't find an answer. I don't know why, but I like em.

I guess that I would reiterate what ULT stated. Music is like a piece of art. Would you rather have the real Van Gogh hanging on your wall, or the stupid screen saver of that famous piece of art on your computer? Having the real thing is much more aesthetically pleasing.

IMO those who do nothing but download are casual fans at best. Why? For the most part they look for a single song by that artist. Those who purchase albums/C.D's want to take in the whole product, and not just skim it for what is considered the POPULAR song. If most of us went that route then albums like "Back In Black" would be known for only 3 songs. This is what "Back In Black" probably looks like on a popularity scale on ITUNES.

Hells Bells lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Shoot To Thrill l
What Do You Do For Money Honey l
Givin' The Dog A Bone ll
Let Me Put My Love Into You Babe l
Back In Black llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
You Shook Me All Night Long llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Have A Drink On Me ll
Shake A Leg l
Rock & Roll Ain't Noise Pollution l

If I put all my faith into those dorks who purchased nothing but the hits, I would be missing out on so many musical gems in my life.

Schbopo wrote:

While I do partake in some downloading, I agree with you people. I much prefer to own a CD than just the mp3s. Hardly anybody in my age group gets this. This is pretty much verbatim from a conversation at school the other day when I brought a Police CD:

Douche: Why do you have a Police CD?
Me: Because I like the Police
Douche: Don't you have, like, Limewire or anything?
Me: (Dramatic pause) Yeah, but I like CDs.
Douche: Why?

And I couldn't find an answer. I don't know why, but I like em.

Geeze - no wonder music sales are down year after year........ Do all the kids "download for free" these days? Does anyone buy music anymore? I can understand downloading something that is out of print. The bands that create it have a right to sell it if they want. It is stealing. However, I do not see ripping your CD and putting it on your ipod as stealing, even though the copyright laws are screwed up and need to change iwth the times. The courts are going to look at it just like making a cassette tape of an LP you bought to play in your car.

I take all my stuff down to 128 as I only have a 60 gig ipod and I want to fit as much music as possible on it. It sounds fine on my car stereo (direct aux jack)


FYI - I like the physical product, itunes is great for TV shows I missed (I don't have a DVR and don;t really need one)

I feel pity for all that are paying for itunes and similar, but that's their (or yours) thing. I would've never done that - why the hell would I if it contains two worst things from both parts (buying / downloading), you have to pay for and you don't get anything but crappy mp3s.

It's not just the music, at least that I can tell for me listening to some plain mp3s is totally "soulless" compared to listening to the original with booklet in my hands.