A Megadeth discussion...

When you hear a Megadeth song, you KNOW it's Megadeth. Nothing generic about them.

It will be interesting to see if Metallica can top Megadeth's last two releases. I think "The System Has Failed" and "United Abominations" are both outstanding, especially the former (IMHO).

Frankly, even though Metallica's new album will debut at number one and sell a lot more copies, I doubt that it will genuinely be a better metal album.

Squidster wrote:

It will be interesting to see if Metallica can top Megadeth's last two releases. I think "The System Has Failed" and "United Abominations" are both outstanding, especially the former (IMHO).

Frankly, even though Metallica's new album will debut at number one and sell a lot more copies, I doubt that it will genuinely be a better metal album.

I'm with you on UA, I love that album.

I think United Abominations is better than Countdown to extincton and youthananasia which i found dissapointing which is ok considering i bought them with a gift card

Whether or not you like Megadeth is a matter of opinion, but they are
NOT generic. While not wanting to slag on young people per se,
The only way I can see someone could come to that opinion is if they
came to all of the early thrash albums at a later date, rather than
having experienced them when they first came out.

And IMO, Dave was heavily influential not only through Megadeth, but
also through Metallica. In the early days of Metallica, Dave was the
only guitar player. He taught James the downpicking style that gives
both bands their heaviness and crunch. He didn't invent it, but he did
bring it into Metallica and helped to shape their sound.

And is
my memory failing or was Dave credited on MOP? I thought he was, but
perhaps not. Either way KEL and RTL have Dave's signature sound all
over them. All props to Metallica as players, but their songwrinting
definitely changed when they ran out of Dave's old practice tapes to
cull for riffs, and not for the better, IMO.

I am Person 3 in the original post.

I love both bands! They both have a tremendously important place in my musical journey, since I grew up on them, along with many, many other metal bands in the 80s.

Both band are great but Metallica is not good anymore compared to Megadeth.

AceFrehley655 wrote:

Both band are great but Metallica is not good anymore compared to Megadeth.

I can agree with that.

And is
my memory failing or was Dave credited on MOP? I thought he was, but
perhaps not. Either way KEL and RTL have Dave's signature sound all
over them. All props to Metallica as players, but their songwrinting
definitely changed when they ran out of Dave's old practice tapes to
cull for riffs, and not for the better, IMO.[/quote]



No, he wasn't credited on MOP. He felt he should've been. Years ago according to Dave, he recognized some of his work on "Leper Messiah". He claimed that the original title of the song was the "Hills Ran Red". I think Metallica had more than enough capable guitar riffs between James and Kirk to go around. I think more than anything, they missed what Cliff brought to the table.

Another interesting side note involving MOP is that there was an L.A. band called critical mass in 1981 who came up with one of the main riffs, which was then later used in "Welcome Home Sanitarium". The song is on one of the Metallica bootlegs that I own.

Quote :

I think United Abominations is better than Countdown to extincton and youthananasia which i found dissapointing which is ok considering i bought them with a gift card

Classic.

AceFrehley655 wrote:

Both band are great but Metallica is not good anymore compared to Megadeth.

I personally like Load and Reload better then UA. The songwriting just isn't there with Dave. As far as all the feud between the bands. Dave is Dave he thinks he is better then every other musician out there. He didn't have any influence on Metallica other then a few riffs. Do you think those riffs made them famous. Metallica is known for diversity when playing, not just full blown thrash. IMO Megadeth hasnt been the same sing Cryptic Writings. Dave lost all his songwriting abilities. UA is a good album but not great..

MetalRob must die.

SoldierUnderCommand wrote:

MetalRob must die.

OOPS DID I SAY THAT?

Since I'm a soldier, I'm the guy in the tank.

MetalRob331 wrote:

AceFrehley655 wrote:

Both band are great but Metallica is not good anymore compared to Megadeth.

I personally like Load and Reload better then UA. The songwriting just isn't there with Dave. As far as all the feud between the bands. Dave is Dave he thinks he is better then every other musician out there. He didn't have any influence on Metallica other then a few riffs. Do you think those riffs made them famous. Metallica is known for diversity when playing, not just full blown thrash. IMO Megadeth hasnt been the same sing Cryptic Writings. Dave lost all his songwriting abilities. UA is a good album but not great..

Thats very interesting

SoldierUnderCommand wrote:

Since I'm a soldier, I'm the guy in the tank.

I got soul by i'm not a soldier.

I agree... we need to smear MetalRob with honey and bury him in an anthill.

And THEN we bring out the tank.

Tall Tyrion wrote:

I agree... we need to smear MetalRob with honey and bury him in an anthill.

And THEN we bring out the tank.

If you listen to the "No Life Till Leather" demo you will realize that almost the entire Kill Em All album is that demo. It was Kill Em All that exploded Metallica onto the scene in the early days. It is A MOST IMPORTANT album.....more important than Ride The Lightning imo. So yeah Dave had A LOT to do with thier initial success.

I know Mustaine has writing credits for the songs The Four Horsemen, Jump in the Fire, Phantom Lord, and Metal Militia. These are all great songs. Dave even took the Four horsemen song and put it onto Killing if i'm not mistaken under the name Mechanix?

My opinion is that Dave has a very bad ego problem and always seems to blame others around him for his problems. Yes he has a few riffs on Kill Em' All but that is not what made Metallica successful imo.

It all boils down to the records imo. Metallica released far superior albums then Megadeth did. Does Dave get the credit for that? I like Megadeth but Dave shouldn't worry about what Metallica's doing everyday...

MetalRob331 wrote:

I know Mustaine has writing credits for the songs The Four Horsemen, Jump in the Fire, Phantom Lord, and Metal Militia. These are all great songs. Dave even took the Four horsemen song and put it onto Killing if i'm not mistaken under the name Mechanix?

My opinion is that Dave has a very bad ego problem and always seems to blame others around him for his problems. Yes he has a few riffs on Kill Em' All but that is not what made Metallica successful imo.

It all boils down to the records imo. Metallica released far superior albums then Megadeth did. Does Dave get the credit for that? I like Megadeth but Dave shouldn't worry about what Metallica's doing everyday...

You are really discounting Dave's work on Kill 'Em All. He doesn't "have a few riffs", he wrote many of the songs. Dave didn't take "the Four Horsemen" and rename the song. Rather the song was originally titled "Mechanix" and was written by Dave. Metallica took Dave's song, retitled it and rewrote the lyrics. I don't know how anyone could historically discount Dave's contributions to early Metallica? It was more than just "a few riffs." Prehaps if you were talking about "Ride the Lightning" you could say they used a few of Dave's riffs, which indeed they did. But "Kill 'Em All" was as much Dave as it was the rest of those guys.

Whether anyone likes Megadeth better, or Metallica better was not the point of the discussion. The point of the discussion was people calling Megadeth "generic" when in fact Dave was one of the innovators or thrash metal.

Mustaine is definately not generic considering he helped invent thrash. Some people these days are ignorant.

ultmetal wrote:

MetalRob331 wrote:

I know Mustaine has writing credits for the songs The Four Horsemen, Jump in the Fire, Phantom Lord, and Metal Militia. These are all great songs. Dave even took the Four horsemen song and put it onto Killing if i'm not mistaken under the name Mechanix?

My opinion is that Dave has a very bad ego problem and always seems to blame others around him for his problems. Yes he has a few riffs on Kill Em' All but that is not what made Metallica successful imo.

It all boils down to the records imo. Metallica released far superior albums then Megadeth did. Does Dave get the credit for that? I like Megadeth but Dave shouldn't worry about what Metallica's doing everyday...

You are really discounting Dave's work on Kill 'Em All. He doesn't "have a few riffs", he wrote many of the songs. Dave didn't take "the Four Horsemen" and rename the song. Rather the song was originally titled "Mechanix" and was written by Dave. Metallica took Dave's song, retitled it and rewrote the lyrics. I don't know how anyone could historically discount Dave's contributions to early Metallica? It was more than just "a few riffs." Prehaps if you were talking about "Ride the Lightning" you could say they used a few of Dave's riffs, which indeed they did. But "Kill 'Em All" was as much Dave as it was the rest of those guys.

Whether anyone likes Megadeth better, or Metallica better was not the point of the discussion. The point of the discussion was people calling Megadeth "generic" when in fact Dave was one of the innovators or thrash metal.

I dont discount his work on the disc i just feel he thinks that whole disc is his. He is credited with 4 songs if he had more i'm sure he would've got credited for them. As far as being generic when Megadeth first came out they were trying to be the most furious band on the planet. IDK if they did that as i think that Killing is mediocre at best.

Quote :

they were trying to be the most furious band on the planet. IDK if they did that as i think that Killing is mediocre at best.

They had a very small budget that didn't represent the songs right.

MetalRob331 wrote:

I dont discount his work on the disc i just feel he thinks that whole disc is his. He is credited with 4 songs if he had more i'm sure he would've got credited for them. As far as being generic when Megadeth first came out they were trying to be the most furious band on the planet. IDK if they did that as i think that Killing is mediocre at best.

Glenn Rogers is credited with ONE writing credit on the first Deliverance CD. Ask him how many songs he actually had a hand in writing on that album. Glenn didn't play a note on the first Vengeance Rising record "Human Sacrifice", ask him how much of a role he played in the importance of that record. It's no different with Kill 'Em All. Metallica gave Dave credit where they had to and that is it, but his role in that monumental metal album is forever cemented in history.

Great discussion BTW. I enjoyed reading everyone's response to this debate I had on another board. Very cool.

troublezone wrote:

Quote :

they were trying to be the most furious band on the planet. IDK if they did that as i think that Killing is mediocre at best.

They had a very small budget that didn't represent the songs right.

Yea i remember them saying they got 8k to do the record and spent 4 of it on drugs. I love Megadeth with the Dave2, Marty, and Nick line-up. I just never thought Dave was a great songwriter meaning the hooks and the melodies that other thrash bands had. He is a great talent and i agree one of the true thrash players but something about his songwriting that always made me go elsewhere on them early releases.