Mastadon: What's the big deal?

Marc Mason wrote:

But, I really do think that there is some important innovation going on with this band, and some of the others in this sub-genre that bears no name. If you don't think that this genre is innovative in some way, I think you're missing something. . . I remember the first two times I heard Blood Mountain. I didn't know what the heck to make of it. It sounded so foreign. Just prior to this, I had read a couple of titles under the subject of The Psychology of Music, and that whole template/paradigm thing came immediately to mind. The music of Mastodon didn't make any sense to me at first, and the reason for it was now readily apparent. I had no earlier examples in my brain to compare it to. The music of Mastodon was progressive in ways that we had never heard before. The drum work was completely unique and so were the guitar patterns. I do think that bands like Mastodon, Baroness, Giant Squid, Pelican, Red Sparowes, Opeth, Agalloch have re-invented the wheel....Or, reinvented it as much as it can be in the year, 2009. These groups are as innovative as is possible in this age. And, I can't get enough of 'em.

Do you remember the names of the books on psychology of music that you mentioned?...I'd be interested in checking those out at some point.

Marc Mason wrote:

If you don't think that this genre is innovative in some way, I think you're missing something. . .

Please show me where I said they weren't innovative in any way...

What I DID say is that they are not so far outside the box that one simply can not find any kind of comparison for them at all. The very building blocks they use come from already established frameworks. There have already been bands that have gone the road of progressive (King Crimson), the abstract (Voivod), the technical (Watchtower), and the avante-garde (Doom). The band may go above and beyond these frameworks in numerous ways, but the essentials are still there. If a listener does not care for those foundations, there is no way they can appreciate, or want to listen to, what has been built upon it.

I'm not a fan of the band, or the style they have helped to blossom. That being said, I will freely admit that they and others have created their own unique sound. However, to say that an entirely new mental viewpoint must be drawn for them to be fully understood is a bit of a stretch. While the totality of their sound may be unique, a number of individual elements have been tried, tested, and utilized before. That is why I'm saying they are not so "alien" as to be something unrecognizable, as your initial post would suggest.

I will give you the fact that they and their ilk can't be pigeonholed into any existing sub-genre, though.

SideShowDisaSter wrote:

Marc Mason wrote:

If you don't think that this genre is innovative in some way, I think you're missing something. . .

Please show me where I said they weren't innovative in any way...

What I DID say is that they are not so far outside the box that one simply can not find any kind of comparison for them at all. The very building blocks they use come from already established frameworks. There have already been bands that have gone the road of progressive (King Crimson), the abstract (Voivod), the technical (Watchtower), and the avante-garde (Doom). The band may go above and beyond these frameworks in numerous ways, but the essentials are still there. If a listener does not care for those foundations, there is no way they can appreciate, or want to listen to, what has been built upon it.

I'm not a fan of the band, or the style they have helped to blossom. That being said, I will freely admit that they and others have created their own unique sound. However, to say that an entirely new mental viewpoint must be drawn for them to be fully understood is a bit of a stretch. While the totality of their sound may be unique, a number of individual elements have been tried, tested, and utilized before. That is why I'm saying they are not so "alien" as to be something unrecognizable, as your initial post would suggest.

I will give you the fact that they and their ilk can't be pigeonholed into any existing sub-genre, though.

I'll definitely have to remember those book titles because they tackled a few subjects which I kinda intuitively understood just by observation alone. Like, one of the subjects was 'musical mimicry'. How songwriters are very apt to steal from artists who they've been listening to/studying only recently. This, of course, is rather obvious to most of our ears. To all of us really, except for the artist himself who's been doing the stealling. So, it's not something which is overtly conscious on behalf of the thief. The book makes the point that this 'mimicry' is most evident in songwriters who will always be derivative of others somewhat, and never really find their own voice. Those who are highly original by nature are those who can always produce art of an enduring quality, which will be influenced by other artists, but never overtly derivative of them.

SideShow, you are most definitely correct in naming the artists mentioned above. I've also discovered that there are always pieces to be found for any given musical puzzle in the work of other musicians. A few years back, I discovered that the Norwegian Technical Metal group, Spiral Architect, wasn't 100% truly original. After hearing their one and only release I was singing high praise to them and their seemingly inhuman knack for musical ingenuity and composition. I believed that their music was entirely original and that it had no precendence, nor could it ever be duplicated. Ahahaha! Then, I heard Watchtower and the illusion was instantly shattered. I then recently heard a British band named, The Thinking Principle who seems to outright steal from Spiral Architect. But, the schitt is good!

Same thing with Metallica and Diamond Head, or Nirvana and The Pixies. There is always some precursor band who gets copied to some extent or another, improved upon and made more palatable for a wider audience. It doesn't make the newer band outright 'forgers' or negates the work they've done in expanding on those earlier concepts. It just makes the newer band 'less' original. Sure, Metallica borrowed heavily from Diamond Head on their debut release. But, by the time that '...And Just For All" rolled around, that influence was almost entirely gone." The influence is no longer detectable. They were entirely their own thing by then. And, look at all the tremendous growth they've experienced in the interim.

What Mastodon does is also evident in the work of some of their other contemporaries. I just named a few bands who have several of the same marks. There is a band named, Baroness, who's first full-length title I believe to be even better than Mastodon's Blood Mountain. But, because, it obviously uses BM as a template in constructing its framework, I can't hold this new work in the same regard. But, I'm sure others don't give a pisz. They just listen. I doubt anyone affords the same level of thought that I do on any given subject....lol. But, it's a fun little exercise and kills the time, right?

TOO MUCH TEXT IN ONE POST!!!!

lol. I'm sorry, mate. I'm just rambling on at this point. I should be sleeping. Tomorrow's gunna be horrible now. Just read a single paragraph and then come back tomorrow and read another. Repeat that process for a good week or so until it's all digested. Have a good week, ya'll.

There is no such thing as "complete originality", it's a myth. There's only originality in the context of how you use your influences to create your own conception.

Marc Mason, I'm glad that someone finally showed up on these boards with your frame of mind. In several posts, I've touched on the topics of there being a group newer bands that create on a different level musically and how Mastodon is one of the bands leading the charge. Generally it wasn't well receieved, but what can you do? People don't want to hear that there is music being made that has all the fundamentals of older music but exists on a higher realm. Nostalgia alone can cause denial and a blind unwillingness to move forward, but when accompanied with the fact that many people have spent countless hours and dollars tracking down and collecting old pieces of music from their childhood, they just don't want hear it and hide behind the wall of good ol' comfortable nostalgia.

To describe many of the bands I've just been using the term Sludge combined with any of the fitting prefixes (post, progressive, atmospheric, psychadelic, etc.) but I don't really like using it. Like many other sub genres of metal, it will probably get a random tag a few years down the road that doesn't truly suit it and acts to limit it in certain ways.

I'm intrigued by the musical psychology books you've mentioned because some of what you've posted on it holds true from my experience. When I first heard Master of Puppets around the age of 11, my ears and brain were overwhelmed for a few moments and it sounded like I was just hearing uncomfortable noise, but then it finally sank in. The same held true on first impression with bands like Megadeth, Yes, and most recently Mastodon, so I'd be interested in looking into the books as well if you have the titles.

I love Mastodon and am really looking forward to their new album. I'm going to be heading down to Atlanta on Saturday to see them headline the Toyota Scion Rock Fest.

new song on their myspace, pretty weird stuff.

http://www.myspace.com/mastodon

I tried them too. Kind of boring if you ask me. Which no one did, so whatever...

Trial by Fire wrote:

Marc Mason, I'm glad that someone finally showed up on these boards with your frame of mind. In several posts, I've touched on the topics of there being a group newer bands that create on a different level musically and how Mastodon is one of the bands leading the charge. Generally it wasn't well receieved, but what can you do? People don't want to hear that there is music being made that has all the fundamentals of older music but exists on a higher realm. Nostalgia alone can cause denial and a blind unwillingness to move forward, but when accompanied with the fact that many people have spent countless hours and dollars tracking down and collecting old pieces of music from their childhood, they just don't want hear it and hide behind the wall of good ol' comfortable nostalgia.

To describe many of the bands I've just been using the term Sludge combined with any of the fitting prefixes (post, progressive, atmospheric, psychadelic, etc.) but I don't really like using it. Like many other sub genres of metal, it will probably get a random tag a few years down the road that doesn't truly suit it and acts to limit it in certain ways.

I'm intrigued by the musical psychology books you've mentioned because some of what you've posted on it holds true from my experience. When I first heard Master of Puppets around the age of 11, my ears and brain were overwhelmed for a few moments and it sounded like I was just hearing uncomfortable noise, but then it finally sank in. The same held true on first impression with bands like Megadeth, Yes, and most recently Mastodon, so I'd be interested in looking into the books as well if you have the titles.

TBF, my friend, you are correct in many of your assumptions. Sounds like you have a somewhat firm grasp of human psychology already. There is definitely a tendency amongst our lot to become fixed in our ways after a certain age. That age is different for different folks, but it's usually agreed upon that we begin the process of closing ourselves off to new and original ideas sometime around the age of 30. This guideline not only pertains to the adoption of new musical ideas, but political, philosophical, religious, etc. ideas as well. We have a tendency to just clam up. People are generally more liberal and idealistic when younger, and then grow more conservative, realistic as they age. And, there's gotta be some sensible reason for these overarching patterns. Probably has to do with taking overt action whilst youthful, and then being guarded in defense of maintaining that which has been already obtained whilst aging. Sounds about right.

As of right now, I stand in sharp contrast to this somewhat reliable rule. At the ripe age of 38, I see myself as an exception, an anomaly. Maybe it's that I've just arrived early to some impending, upcoming mid-life crisis. lol. Could be. Because, I find myself open to a bunch of new stuff, musical and otherwise. I find myself moving towards music/art which is highly articulate and forward-reaching. There seems to be two trends going on in music at present, two which are completely independent of one another. One, is that the mainstream continues to be incredibly mindless and disposable. Music which can be likened to quick and easy crack fixes. It really doesn't appear that those mainstream, musical artists even exist anymore. Just seems like there are various suits set up behind closed doors, and its those bastids who are delivering the material to the brainless hordes. All very carefully calculated and safe music, devoid of any creativity or intensity, packaged and ribbed for her pleasure.

The second trend is sheer poetry, mate. Pure, unadulterated beauty. It really appears to me that since 2003 or so, bands which have desired it, have truly received complete creative control over their output. Some might say that, in many cases, that it was always there for the taking. But, when you have a host of different monetary interests peering over your shoulder whilst recording the material for your next effort, and it effects the way that you conceive your ideas, then you really didn't have much control over anything. I believe that the open exchange of ideas on the internet has been greatly influential in this realm., in a postivie way. The fact that a medium such as MTV has all but disappeared from public consciousness is a huge plus as well. All these stations really did was to create highly glossy, disposable crack music which always was geared to appeal to the lowest common denominator in us all. Because of the fact that we've all already gone through each and every possible musical trend, it's now left us with a malleable piece of unmarked ground where an artist can truly become whatever he or she chooses to be, without the influence of this or that guy. These are glipse of some of the factors why we're getting so much Top Shelf, quality stuff as of late.

You inquired about book titles. I know that I've read more than one title on the subject of Psychology of Music, but definitely less than a dozen. I'm very hazy about which ones and when, and what ideas came from which and when. The first two titles I'm certain that I've read. The others I've listed here all appear to be winners though. Tell me if these are of any help to you. And, if you sift through and gather any important info from these, please share wih me which ones are noteworthy.

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Psychology-Music-Geza-Revesz/dp/048641678X/ref=pd_sim_b_15
Intro to Psychology of Music
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Mind-Anthony-Storr/dp/0345383184/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235719473&sr=1-1
Music and the Mind
http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Neuroscience-Music-Isabelle-Peretz/dp/0198525206/ref=pd_sim_b_18
The Cognitive Neuroscience of Music
http://www.amazon.com/Psychology-Music-Second-Cognition-Perception/dp/0122135652/ref=pd_sim_b_2
The Psychology of Music
http://www.amazon.com/Music-Language-Brain-Aniruddh-Patel/dp/0195123751/ref=pd_sim_b_3
Music, Language and the Brain
http://www.amazon.com/Musical-Mind-Cognitive-Psychology-Oxford/dp/0198521286/ref=pd_sim_b_12
The Musical Mind: Cognitive Psychology of Music
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Musical-Mind-Cognition-Function/dp/0198530137/ref=pd_sim_b_5
Exploring the Musical Mind: Cognition, Ability, Emotion, Function

Interesting books Marc. I'll have to pick some of those up.

nevermore wrote:

Interesting books Marc. I'll have to pick some of those up.

You do that, son, and watch your head grow to humongo proportions. Nuthin scarier than a Metalhead with full on smarts, kid. lol.

If the music dont grab my mind why listen?

Marc Mason wrote:

nevermore wrote:

Interesting books Marc. I'll have to pick some of those up.

You do that, son, and watch your head grow to humongo proportions. Nuthin scarier than a Metalhead with full on smarts, kid. lol.

We're the same age,kid.

I really like Mastodon as well and have seen them perform quite a few times in everything from hole in the wall pizza joints to large clubs and arenas.

One thing that has always stuck out about them to me is that they seem to have a pretty wide ranging appeal for a band of their type. Whenever I visit the indie record store near me I seem to always see somebody buying one of their cds along with other typical stuff in a store like that; Morrissey, My Morning Jacket, etc... .

Bought tickets to see Mastodon, Kylesa and Intronaut in May,earlier today.

nevermore wrote:

Marc Mason wrote:

nevermore wrote:

Interesting books Marc. I'll have to pick some of those up.

You do that, son, and watch your head grow to humongo proportions. Nuthin scarier than a Metalhead with full on smarts, kid. lol.

We're the same age,kid.

Nuthin scarier than a middle-aged Metalhead with full-on smarts, kid. Oh, snap, nizzizza. You won't hear me using that word 'middle-aged' now for another ten years. That word is whack, son. Plussin', the way I've lived my life and abused thy body, the middle-age mark prolly passed for me like 8 and quarter years back.

What's with the Ebonics for Dummies?

Marc Mason wrote:

nevermore wrote:

Marc Mason wrote:

nevermore wrote:

Interesting books Marc. I'll have to pick some of those up.

You do that, son, and watch your head grow to humongo proportions. Nuthin scarier than a Metalhead with full on smarts, kid. lol.

We're the same age,kid.

Nuthin scarier than a middle-aged Metalhead with full-on smarts, kid. Oh, snap, nizzizza. You won't hear me using that word 'middle-aged' now for another ten years. That word is whack, son. Plussin', the way I've lived my life and abused thy body, the middle-age mark prolly passed for me like 8 and quarter years back.

I edited my original posting, felt I was being unfair in my statement, but I do feel this ebonics is getting old, but whatever, if this is the way you really speak Marc, than I'll try to keep an open mind.

It's getting old... yo.

Never could get into the old albums but the new one is really sweet.

check it out

crack the skye

I really like Mastodon. I wasn't sure what to make of them when I first heard them - especially as I think the first songs I heard were from Remission and the harsh vocals irritated me - but after hearing Leviathan and Blood Mountain I was converted. They're certainly one of my favorite bands going right now and I've been enjoying the new album (kind of amuses me that the more long-time fans are starting to turn on them for going soft *L*).

sheets wrote:

(kind of amuses me that the more long-time fans are starting to turn on them for going soft *L*).

soft? what are those dudes smoking? this album isn't soft, its damn spacey is what it is. I absolutely love it!

After the Remission disc these guys took a bit of a left turn musically and I think it was all for the best. I've been listening to these guys since the Lifesblood ep and I've enjoyed every change these guys have made musically.

I've seen 'em live numerous times in everything from a crappy pizza joint to large arenas and they still continue to impress me.