Capitol Punishment

rattpoison wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

That's the problem; there are too many criminals and not enough jails. I suppose we could ship all the criminals off to some remote island, like Australia.

A sense of deja vu came over me.

But do you agree with me that attitudes are more in tune with existing laws that have stood for years? As in the US public are more in favour of the death penalty because it's been a law for a long time as opposed to Australia which stopped the death penalty decades ago.

I believe prevailing attitudes have in a small way something to do with it. It also comes down to personal belief, opinions on societal impacts, economic factors, and where it resonates on our own moral compass. I would say that yes, my living within the United States where capital punishment has been the norm since the beginning may have something to do with my opinion. I'd also say that my beliefs as a Christian have something to do with it. The influences and opinions expressed by my parents are a factor, as are my own ideals on what is right, the nature of justice, and personal accountability.

While I can see what you're saying, and even give credence to it to a small degree, I would in no way say it is the dominating factor.

Eyesore wrote:

Do you honestly think if a man kidnaps and repeatedly rapes a little girl, a baby, and then buries her alive he should be able to go on living? No way! And I am only for the death penalty simply because these idiotic "human rights" activists make it impossible for anyone to truly punish these criminals for their crimes if they aren't put to death.

While that is a horrible and tragic case i still think it's wrong to kill someone no matter what they have done. So in that case and any other case imo it's wrong to kill the perpatrator of that crime.

I'm with Eyesore. In the "no doubt" cases of very henious crimes, the
person must be executed. Just as Eyesore wrote these people are a
MASSIVE drain on resources and many of them do in fact lead nice little
lives in prison.

I can't think what it serves to allow them to linger for decades,
essentially being served hand and foot by others. Almost sounds like a
good gig. At the very least make these people work hard, hard, hard.

Rattpoison - what do you think about Sax and Eyesore's "brutal labor" camps? At least they aren't enjoying their prison sentence.

Don't even get me started on the "prisoners" that record music and write and publish books while in prison for taking lives.

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Rattpoison - what do you think about Sax and Eyesore's "brutal labor" camps? At least they aren't enjoying their prison sentence.

Yep that sounds like a good idea, work em into the ground. At least they can be contributing something to society. Just don't systematically kill them.

Cool. I can live with that. Send them to Rura Penthe!!!

rattpoison wrote:

scottmitchell74 wrote:

Rattpoison - what do you think about Sax and Eyesore's "brutal labor" camps? At least they aren't enjoying their prison sentence.

Yep that sounds like a good idea, work em into the ground. At least they can be contributing something to society. Just don't systematically kill them.

.....Maybe we should expand the Guantanamo Base..

In all honesty, I have a bit of a problem with the death penalty.

It's not the idea of putting to death genuinely evil human beings that worries me......what worries me is allowing such an apparatus to exist in the hands of the State. I honestly don't know if I trust any government enough to allow them to have it.

But then again, what's the alternative? *shrugs*

Quote :

my big concern is the recent trend of MANY cases being overturned due to moder science (DNA etc....) proving people to be innocent who were judged guilty. Many of these people were on death row. How many were executed who were innocent before the advent of better science?

These people are guilty of SOMETHING, just maybe not the crime they've been charged with. In this day and age, I believe the amount of "innocent" people in prison is less than 1%. And if that percentile is removed from my planet, I'm pretty sure I'll still function just fine.

This is the only alternative for the death penalty I'll accept (also only when it's beyond a shadow of a doubt):

Stick them in a dark room by themselves with a minimal sized mattress and a toilet with John Wayne toilet paper. Keep the room slightly above room temperature so they are minimaly comfortable. Give them a gallon of water, a daily multivitamin and half a loaf of bread a day, nothing more. Let them take a shower twice a week (cold shower with cheap soap and shampoo, not for their sake but for the sake of the prison guards who have to put up with the stench). Inside this room they will have no TV, no books to read, and no music to listen to.

I'd go with working them hard except for the fact that the human body can adapt to that kind of work and then they'd be in great shape and probably end up enjoying it. So I might say add it to the above punishment but only for about once a week (on one of the shower days).

I can understand the concerns of condemning the innocent but to take away the option leaves too many guilty living cushy lives on taxpayers expense.

On a side note to this issue

most who favor capitol punishment are against abortion
most who favor abortion are against capitol punishment

go figure

Quote :

I can understand the concerns of condemning the
innocent but to take away the option leaves too many guilty living
cushy lives on taxpayers expense.

I struggle with this....but to me the horror of killing a truly innocent person weighs heavy on my mind. There's probably never going to be a perfect answer. We must wait for that.

DallasBlack - Some hybrid of what you described would rock. However, work that dude! On half a loaf a day and all the water he wants he'll be 125 pounds even if he's 6'2". Lean and skinny does not = in shape.

Quote :

most who favor capitol punishment are against abortion
most who favor abortion are against capitol punishment

So true, and I raise my hand as Exhibit #1 (or 100,000,0000)

James B. wrote:

most who favor capitol punishment are against abortion
most who favor abortion are against capitol punishment

i favor both capitol punishment and the womens right to choose.

That's rare.......but you're a different cat.


I know a few people in the "real" world who are like that. It happens.....

mc666 wrote:

James B. wrote:

most who favor capitol punishment are against abortion
most who favor abortion are against capitol punishment

i favor both capitol punishment and the womens right to choose.

I'd fall into that category as well.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

mc666 wrote:

James B. wrote:

most who favor capitol punishment are against abortion
most who favor abortion are against capitol punishment

i favor both capitol punishment and the womens right to choose.

I'd fall into that category well.

Me too to a point. Once a fetus is viable outside of the womb, I only believe in abortion to save the woman's life. But before that point, I think it's up to the woman.

And I definitely support the death penalty.

Quote :

Once a fetus is viable outside of the womb

Modern science is making viability earlier and earlier into the pregnancy. Just a thought.





I appreciate the tone so much in this thread. There are other places where this would be war already. We'd have passivists threatening to execute people and so on and so forth.......

Quote :

Quote:
Once a fetus is viable outside of the womb


Modern science is making viability earlier and earlier into the pregnancy. Just a thought.

Yeah, I know but that's my measuring stick.

And I agree with your observation about the tone of this thread. Notice I never voiced my opinion on abortion before?

Quote :

Yeah, I know but that's my measuring stick.

And I agree with your observation about the tone of this thread. Notice I never voiced my opinion on abortion before?

(So do you adjust your measuring stick as science shortens it? Just curious, as I have no other point or argument to make. )

I'm against it accept to save the Mother's life. What I don't understand how in certain places a doctor can shove something into a child's partially birthed body to kill him/her but if I commit a crime and in the act manage to kill both a expectant mother and her kid I'm up on two charges. This boggles my mind without end.


I must admit in honesty and full disclosure that the closer to conception the less it sickens me. I still think it's wrong in theory, but somehow it doesn't seem as "bad". I know that's inconsistent. I have no real defense for that position besides the basic thought that the more like a human a fetus looks, (and that almost always means closer to 9 months) the more it bothers me.

The question becomes: what changes after birth to say it's viable? No newborn is able to survive without care. Not even a two year old. I understand why women want abortions but with the other options out there, I would like to see them go away. My first daughter was six weeks early and without medical care would not have survived so this subject kind of hits home with me.

And i'm not trying to fight so please don't take it that way.

Good points Etomb.

Another that I sometimes forget....which is ironic 'cause she's always around is this one:

"What if it's a rape?"

My wife is the product of a rape. Her mother was 16. She carried her, kept her, loved her and now me, my girls and just about everyone she's come into contact with has benefitted.

See that's the whole thing. By letting ANY abortion, whose to say that the next child murdered would be someone who has so much to offer the world like your wife?

I find abortion to be a moral issue and the government should stay out of it, although I am pro-life.

I guess I just don't consider it a human being until it has a chance of surviving. I used to believe that it wasn't abortion until the fetus had a measurable heartbeat. But today, the heartbeat is measurable very early so I modified my opinion somewhat. I define viable as able to live outside the womb somehow. I guess where I differ most with conservative thinking is that I don't believe life begins at conception. Conception is the start of "potential" life.

I also agree with Scott about partial birth abortion; just a horrible, barbaric practice IMO. Later term abortions should only be allowed in order to save the life of the mother.

Quote :

idiotic "human rights" activists

Try living in a country without us, K. I'll buy ya a round trip ticket to Cambodia, then when you get home, we'll see if you still consider us "idiotic".

We moved to this country 500 years ago, committed genocide, enslaved a race of peoples, and are now currently being taxed out the ass to kill off a couple more countries, just so we could have the RIGHT to make better lives for ourselves. And I understand that your comment was directed at a specific issue, but don't blanket an entire sector of Americans that are dedicating their lives to improving yours.

And before anyone sees my comments here as an attack on Eyesore, me n Ken are friends and have respect for each others opinions. So this is not a negative shot at our favorite member. [hehehe - I said "favorite member"]