Question For Bible Believing Christians

lets not get into that in Dallas's thread! Wouldn't be fair.

JW is Jehovah’s Witness

Jumping into the JW conversation it seems like JW's as well as well most of christianity nowadays seems to want to WORK for their salvation. Only requirement for salvation is to believe in Jesus.

EDIT- Please do not reply to this, as the post above was posted while i was writing my post.

it's all good bro!

awillis50 wrote:

Also what do you guys think about the 'Word of Faith' movement among chrstians (ie Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, among many others)?

Those people, in my opinion, are just motivational speakers who find bible passages that fit into their messages. I find them to be very empty and lacking of real substance.

Another empty part of "Christianity" is the explosion of what I call "logo churches". They have sprung from this word of faith crap and draw people even further from the truth. If your church has a logo on the sign outside and a mission statement, you are going down the wrong path, I believe. Christ doesn't have a slogan, and your church shouldn't either.

okay...nevermind

oops.

spectrefate wrote:

awillis50 wrote:

Also what do you guys think about the 'Word of Faith' movement among chrstians (ie Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, among many others)?

Those people, in my opinion, are just motivational speakers who find bible passages that fit into their messages. I find them to be very empty and lacking of real substance.

Another empty part of "Christianity" is the explosion of what I call "logo churches". They have sprung from this word of faith crap and draw people even further from the truth. If your church has a logo on the sign outside and a mission statement, you are going down the wrong path, I believe. Christ doesn't have a slogan, and your church shouldn't either.

You said it!

Quote :

The way they "live” is admirable, but not directly leading to salvation.

I totally agree. I was just trying to bring to light some "redeeming qualities" of the SDA's.

And your explaination of the word "cult" took the edge off for me. I guess it's just all the JW I know personally are such nice, decent people that exude thier "brand" of faith so much more boldly than most, that hearing the word "cult" attached to thier sect seems overly negative. I never tell anyone who or how to believe. But like my pastor always used to say - if ya make it to heaven, you'll be pretty surprised who's up there with ya!

Anyways, big respect on that post, T.

Quote :

I guess it's just all the JW I know personally are such nice, decent people that exude thier "brand" of faith so much more boldly than most, that hearing the word "cult" attached to thier sect seems overly negative.

That's probably true of most "cults".

It's only the occassional crazy shoot 'em up, poison them, long crazy bearded bug-eyed - leader cults that give a bad name to the word cult!

Seriously, though, those religions that mainstream Christians call Cults usually truly are active and zealous as well as nice and upstanding folk.

For me that makes the situation all the more frustrating/sad/deflating as a Christian.

IF IF IF IF Christians had as much collective proper zeal and "go get 'em" we'd be a force!

Totally unrelated note here guys, but every time I see "Bible Believing Christians" in the title of this thread, I always wonder, "is there such a thing as a Bible UNbelieving Christian?"

Just curious.

This is great stuff. I've spoken to Jehovah Witnesses before. They are some of the nicest and well-dressed people you will ever meet. I spoke with a couple of them for 90 minutes. They tried to convice you that what they believe is the truth. They even say that "we believe the same things as you do". That is truly not the case as Ult clearly pointed out before in his post.

I definitely recommend that you really know your scripture before you go discuss the bible with a Jehovah Witness. They really know their scripture inside and out. Pray for guidance and the words to speak from the Holy Spirit.

It's sad that we as Christians (as a whole, not pointing to anyone particular) do not know the Bible as well as we should. I'll admit I am one of those who should know the Bible better than I do. We need to continue to strive to do better and know his word as it is our Daily Bread to get us through this time on this world and eventually to Heaven.

By the way, favorite books are James and Proverbs. James is direct which I appreciate and Proverbs is amazing. God really gave Solomon (who wrote the bulk of Proverbs) great wisdom.

God rules - love you all brothers. :goodluck:

Fat Freddy wrote:

Totally unrelated note here guys, but every time I see "Bible Believing Christians" in the title of this thread, I always wonder, "is there such a thing as a Bible UNbelieving Christian?"

Just curious.

You've just found one.


In my own personal faith, I know three things....


1. That Jesus was the son of God made present as Man

2. That Jesus was crucified for the sins of Mankind and rose on the third day

3. That through Christ's blood, we are cleansed.

....and that is ALL that I know.


I think the Holy Bible is an important book for followers of Christ Jesus, but a very important thing must be remember: The hands of man always profane things that are sacred. Humans are imperfect by our very nature. God is perfect. We are not God, neither was Paul. The Bible was not somekind of mana from Heaven, it was a collection of various Christian texts, written by various believers, that were put together in a single volume on the basic of their own merits (at least two of them almost didn't make it). Though the Bible is a great source of inspiration, one must ALWAYS remember that it is no above being errant in some cases.

Beware of those on Earth who claim to have knowledge of the matters of Heaven.

SAXON1500 wrote:

Quote :

The way they "live” is admirable, but not directly leading to salvation.

I totally agree. I was just trying to bring to light some "redeeming qualities" of the SDA's. I guess it's just all the JW I know personally are such nice, decent people that exude thier "brand" of faith so much more boldly than most....

YES, AND ABSOLUTELY! I've known some wonderful Mormon, JW and Christian Science friends over the years!

shamgar75 wrote:

This is great stuff. I've spoken to Jehovah Witnesses before. They are some of the nicest and well-dressed people you will ever meet. I spoke with a couple of them for 90 minutes. They tried to convice you that what they believe is the truth. They even say that "we believe the same things as you do". That is truly not the case as Ult clearly pointed out before in his post.

We've had a Jehovah's Witness couple show up at our front door a few times in the past couple of months. They first came by when my wife was home on maternity leave and I guess she was too nice to tell them "please go away" so they keep coming back. I don't particularly mind them except that they always seem to come a knockin' at the worst possible time, i.e. the baby has just ralphed on the floor, we're in the midst of house cleaning, or whatever...

Fat Freddy wrote:

ralphed

[A.D.D. Moment] I haven't heard that word in forever. How 1987 of you. [/A.D.D.]

Like, totally!

Tall Tyrion wrote:

Like, totally!

RIGHTEOUS DUDE!

shamgar75 wrote:

This is great stuff. I've spoken to Jehovah Witnesses before. They are some of the nicest and well-dressed people you will ever meet. I spoke with a couple of them for 90 minutes. They tried to convice you that what they believe is the truth. They even say that "we believe the same things as you do". That is truly not the case as Ult clearly pointed out before in his post.

I definitely recommend that you really know your scripture before you go discuss the bible with a Jehovah Witness. They really know their scripture inside and out. Pray for guidance and the words to speak from the Holy Spirit.

It's sad that we as Christians (as a whole, not pointing to anyone particular) do not know the Bible as well as we should. I'll admit I am one of those who should know the Bible better than I do. We need to continue to strive to do better and know his word as it is our Daily Bread to get us through this time on this world and eventually to Heaven.

By the way, favorite books are James and Proverbs. James is direct which I appreciate and Proverbs is amazing. God really gave Solomon (who wrote the bulk of Proverbs) great wisdom.

God rules - love you all brothers. :goodluck:

The Witnesses are part of a sociological and theological cult. Theology is drilled into them day and night. They have a book that helps them to refute Christian doctrine. I have that book. It gives the possible responses people will give them at the door and how they should properly reply. They memorize this stuff. They are also taught not to take any printed literature from anyone other than the Watchtower Society. They believe that they alone are true believers because they alone call God by his name.

They love to point out that the KJV uses the word Jehovah in the Old Testament on a few occasions. Indeed it does. Jehovah is one way to possibly pronounce the tetragramaton. Yahweh is another. Unfortunately the tetragramaton is virtually un-pronounceable as it has no vowels and only four letters יְהֹוָה, or YWHW or YVHV, in English or JHWH in German. When you see LORD in all caps in the Old Testament in the KJV, this is where the tetragramaton was used. Basically it means "I AM" or "all encompassing". It would take a long time to explain how the name Jehovah was settled upon from those letters, but it's basically Jehovah is the most commonly spoken English pronunciation of the tetragrammaton.

Thankfully as Christians of the new covenant, we don't need to worry about the pronunciation of God's name because we can now call him "Abba Father", a term of endearment which in simplest terms means "Daddy".

I agree. The JWs are well spoken and polite, that is, until you actually have them cornered. Then they will fight back tooth, fang and claw. It's part of being in a sociological cult. Basically it's brainwashing. Be careful. They suck in thousands and thousands of people every year.

When my wife first told me that a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses had dropped by, I said that she should've told them "I'm sorry, but we already have a deep and meaningful relationship with Satan," but apparently she thought that would've just encouraged them to keep talking...

Quote :

The JWs are well spoken and polite, that is, until you actually have them cornered. Then they will fight back tooth, fang and claw. It's part of being in a sociological cult. Basically it's brainwashing. Be careful. They suck in thousands and thousands of people every year.

I don't bother trying to debate with them or "corner" them. Firstly because I'm not as Biblically knowledgable (spelling?) as some of y'all, and secondly because I find if you just go "OK, whatever, that's lovely, thank you" they go away quicker.

My dad once told me of when he was young how he had a party where he got plastered (my dad used to party hard, now days he has a beer or two a day for four days a month). In the living room there was trash and empty bottles lying around and a little kiddie pool. A JW knocked on the door and my dad answers it in his underwear with the door wide open enough to see everything in the room. My dad is diesheveled (sic?) suffering a hangover when asks if he can help him. The JW smiles nervously, backs away, and says, "Sorry to interupt you, have a nice day." That story always makes me laugh. It's better than the comedian who says when the JW come to his house, he opens the door impatiently and yells, "Hey, man make it quick, I'm trying to sacrifice a goat and it has to happen before high noon or Jupiter will come out of alignment!" (or something to that matter)

There are a ton of things I disagree with the JW - alot have been discussed here. But I will point out one thing. God uses everyone and everything in mysterious ways. If a JW shows up at someones house that has never heard anything about Jesus - then that person goes out and explores thier own spirituality and ends up being saved - well, it was the JW that instigated that circumstance. The JW gave them hope in a hopeless world, light in the thier darkness - possibly not just saving thier earthly lives, but thier eternal lives as well. Chances are they do not end up subscribing to the JW doctrine, but the door was opened for them. For that I give the JW props. It is a tiny minority of the worlds population that is as well educated in the deep and confusing world of theology, as Scott or T-Roy are. It takes a spark to start a fire - and who are we to question God as to where that spark comes from?

SAXON1500 wrote:

There are a ton of things I disagree with the JW - alot have been discussed here. But I will point out one thing. God uses everyone and everything in mysterious ways. If a JW shows up at someones house that has never heard anything about Jesus - then that person goes out and explores thier own spirituality and ends up being saved - well, it was the JW that instigated that circumstance. The JW gave them hope in a hopeless world, light in the thier darkness - possibly not just saving thier earthly lives, but thier eternal lives as well. Chances are they do not end up subscribing to the JW doctrine, but the door was opened for them. For that I give the JW props. It is a tiny minority of the worlds population that is as well educated in the deep and confusing world of theology, as Scott or T-Roy are. It takes a spark to start a fire - and who are we to question God as to where that spark comes from?

I agree with Unc here on the fact that God uses people from all walks of life.They plant that seed and then someone else may get the harvest.Isnt it Great how God works?

I talked to my co-worker again today, showing him the verse in the Old Testament where it is said to stay away, or don't give attention to false prophets (i.e. people prophechying in the name of God, only to discover that the prophechies don't come true. This has happened with the JW a lot of times in the past). He has prior to this told me he didn't know of a verse like this, so I gave him the verse for him to look up. I also talked to him about the pole vs. the cross. I just read an interesting website about this, and he had to look it up again to talk to me further.

Proverbs for me

1 A gentle answer turns away wrath,
but a harsh word stirs up anger. - Proverbs 15:1