Hit Parader=poser

No one is ever going to convince me tha Cobain was a great guitarist. He was mediocre at best, his only nack was writing songs that people at the time liked. I will give him his due as far as influence on some of the hard rock bands of the last 10 years but nothing more. Lets face it he is remembered more for his suicide and distaste for hard rock of the 80s than for his actual music. If you want to talk about a guitarist with a great unique tone and sound with some of the best guitar riffs ever (who was also taken before his time) then lets talk about the late, great Criss Oliva, that man was a greater guitarist than Cobain could have ever hoped to have been.

Also I am not a "snob", Rattpoison, as a matter of fact when I first got into heavy metal everyone called me a poser. The difference for me was that I actually liked the music and also the music was out of popularity so I had no reason to be a poser. The posers that I'm talking about are the ones who, because old school metal is making a minor come back, claim to be old school but if you saw their music collection they have the hits of the legends but none of the full albums but tons of Slipknot, Godsmack, Korn, etc. I WANT these people to be set right and become true metal heads (like the people on this disscussion board) but as long as they depend on rags like HP, they will never get to that level.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Uhm...he wrote some of the hookiest guitar riffs ever? Are you deaf, or have you been living under a rock your whole life, with only Slipknot and Nirvana cd's to compare? Hm...what great riffs has that little faggott written...hm..."Smells Like Teen Spirit"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! One of the worst songs ever, some of the worst lyrics ever, LESS than casual main riff. Lithium? You have got to be kidding me! "Nevermind" ...hmmmm

You are up against Legendary "Riff-Writers", such as Toni Iommi, Kirk Hammett, James Hetfield, Scott Ian, and thousands of others! How can you even COMPARE Kurt's Crap to legendary riffs like "Iron Man", "Paranoid", "Into the Void", "Master of Reality", "Children of the Grave", "Master of Puppets", "Creeping Death", "Smoke on the Water", THOUSANDS!!

Lay off. I'm not much of a Nirvana fan and do regard them as quite an overrated band, but you can't deny how hugely influential the band was, even at times if it was for the wrong reasons. Noone's denying the ability of the various metal musicians you listed, rattpoison was actually being quite fair with his comments. At least he's not getting caught up in some of the elitism I can see here.

Smindas wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Uhm...he wrote some of the hookiest guitar riffs ever? Are you deaf, or have you been living under a rock your whole life, with only Slipknot and Nirvana cd's to compare? Hm...what great riffs has that little faggott written...hm..."Smells Like Teen Spirit"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! One of the worst songs ever, some of the worst lyrics ever, LESS than casual main riff. Lithium? You have got to be kidding me! "Nevermind" ...hmmmm

You are up against Legendary "Riff-Writers", such as Toni Iommi, Kirk Hammett, James Hetfield, Scott Ian, and thousands of others! How can you even COMPARE Kurt's Crap to legendary riffs like "Iron Man", "Paranoid", "Into the Void", "Master of Reality", "Children of the Grave", "Master of Puppets", "Creeping Death", "Smoke on the Water", THOUSANDS!!

Lay off. I'm not much of a Nirvana fan and do regard them as quite an overrated band, but you can't deny how hugely influential the band was, even at times if it was for the wrong reasons. Noone's denying the ability of the various metal musicians you listed, rattpoison was actually being quite fair with his comments. At least he's not getting caught up in some of the elitism I can see here.

Oh no, I am not denying their influence at all. They influenced THOUSANDS of other bands, taking crap to another level. But stating that he wrote some of the hookiest riffs ever, is a VERY high rate. In my opinion, his music (and himself as a person. The Guy was a cracked up, bisexual freak. I'l try and find the article) is pure crap.

Eyesore wrote:

Required Fields wrote:

Metal Maniacs is the best mag out there.

That magazine is largely redundant crap that's already two months old by the time it comes out.

I read Metal Maniacs pretty religiously for over ten years, it's only been in the last year or two that I've begun to lose interest in it. I used to run out and pick up every issue as soon as it came out just to keep my then-complete collection up to date (a habit which was a holdover from my completist comic book collecting days I guess), but as time went on and I missed an issue here and an issue there I was like "Meh, heck with it." Now if I'm in a store and I see an issue on the rack I'll pick it up but I don't go nuts if I miss one from time to time.

I just picked up the current one over the weekend and it's chock full of bands I have either never heard of (and have no desire to hear) or don't give a rat's patoot about either, so it doesn't look like I'm missing much. Although I did laugh at the review of Iced Earth's "Framing Armageddon," which calls it "Iced Earth's masterpiece" (wha?), says it's their "best produced album" (eh?) and the writer sez he prefers Owens to Barlow. (Haha)

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Smindas wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Uhm...he wrote some of the hookiest guitar riffs ever? Are you deaf, or have you been living under a rock your whole life, with only Slipknot and Nirvana cd's to compare? Hm...what great riffs has that little faggott written...hm..."Smells Like Teen Spirit"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! One of the worst songs ever, some of the worst lyrics ever, LESS than casual main riff. Lithium? You have got to be kidding me! "Nevermind" ...hmmmm

You are up against Legendary "Riff-Writers", such as Toni Iommi, Kirk Hammett, James Hetfield, Scott Ian, and thousands of others! How can you even COMPARE Kurt's Crap to legendary riffs like "Iron Man", "Paranoid", "Into the Void", "Master of Reality", "Children of the Grave", "Master of Puppets", "Creeping Death", "Smoke on the Water", THOUSANDS!!

Lay off. I'm not much of a Nirvana fan and do regard them as quite an overrated band, but you can't deny how hugely influential the band was, even at times if it was for the wrong reasons. Noone's denying the ability of the various metal musicians you listed, rattpoison was actually being quite fair with his comments. At least he's not getting caught up in some of the elitism I can see here.

Oh no, I am not denying their influence at all. They influenced THOUSANDS of other bands, taking crap to another level. But stating that he wrote some of the hookiest riffs ever, is a VERY high rate. In my opinion, his music (and himself as a person. The Guy was a cracked up, bisexual freak. I'l try and find the article) is pure crap.

Yeah, you see, I'm not the kind of person who will hold bisexuality against someone. I don't condone his drug abuse but that's just a staple of rock and metal - I'm sure some of your favourite musicians have had their drug-related lows. And it can't be denied, Cobain did write some of the hookiest riffs ever. It's not an exaggeration. They were so infectious that they still get praised over a decade later. You may not like them, but the fact you're so aware of the songs implies they must've had some kind of hook.

Cobain was a great songwriter. Who cares how good of a guitarist he was. You can be technically amazing like an Yngwie and write crap songs, or very simplistic like Cobain and write great songs. My vote goes to the one that writes great songs.

DAMMIT KIDS STOP THIS ARGUING ABOUT KURT COBAIN OR I SWEAR I AM TURNING THIS CAR AROUND AND GOING HOME AND YOU'LL NEVER GET TO WALLY WORLD!!!!

...but I love Wally World

ultmetal wrote:

I still have a copy from the 1980's with Stryper on the cover.

I had a subscription to Hit Parader from 1982-1985. I wish I'd have kept some of them.

Smindas wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Smindas wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

Uhm...he wrote some of the hookiest guitar riffs ever? Are you deaf, or have you been living under a rock your whole life, with only Slipknot and Nirvana cd's to compare? Hm...what great riffs has that little faggott written...hm..."Smells Like Teen Spirit"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! One of the worst songs ever, some of the worst lyrics ever, LESS than casual main riff. Lithium? You have got to be kidding me! "Nevermind" ...hmmmm

You are up against Legendary "Riff-Writers", such as Toni Iommi, Kirk Hammett, James Hetfield, Scott Ian, and thousands of others! How can you even COMPARE Kurt's Crap to legendary riffs like "Iron Man", "Paranoid", "Into the Void", "Master of Reality", "Children of the Grave", "Master of Puppets", "Creeping Death", "Smoke on the Water", THOUSANDS!!

Lay off. I'm not much of a Nirvana fan and do regard them as quite an overrated band, but you can't deny how hugely influential the band was, even at times if it was for the wrong reasons. Noone's denying the ability of the various metal musicians you listed, rattpoison was actually being quite fair with his comments. At least he's not getting caught up in some of the elitism I can see here.

Oh no, I am not denying their influence at all. They influenced THOUSANDS of other bands, taking crap to another level. But stating that he wrote some of the hookiest riffs ever, is a VERY high rate. In my opinion, his music (and himself as a person. The Guy was a cracked up, bisexual freak. I'l try and find the article) is pure crap.

Yeah, you see, I'm not the kind of person who will hold bisexuality against someone. I don't condone his drug abuse but that's just a staple of rock and metal - I'm sure some of your favourite musicians have had their drug-related lows. And it can't be denied, Cobain did write some of the hookiest riffs ever. It's not an exaggeration. They were so infectious that they still get praised over a decade later. You may not like them, but the fact you're so aware of the songs implies they must've had some kind of hook.

Oh no, I am not holding his sexuality against him. That came out wrong, I know. I read, he was violent, and hurt/raped every person that did not agree with his blasphemous views (and tons of other stuff, revealing what a prick he really was). I still do not agree on the riffs, though. That, I will never believe.

to the guy tossing around words like "fag" & "faggot"... you need to grow up. it doesn't make you look as tough as you think it does.

mc666 wrote:

to the guy tossing around words like "fag" & "faggot"... you need to grow up. it doesn't make you look as tough as you think it does.

If it is me you are talking to, all right then. I Don't usually swear or use "colourful" language, but in some rare cases I do. Sorry about that, though, I was just a little pissed off (I HATE Kurt Cobain...)

Kurt Cobain's guitar riffs were hooky and bouncy like Cheap Trick of old, you ask anyone and they can hum the opening guitar lines of the 'anthem to end all anthems' Smells Like Teen Spirit. His guitar solos while minimalist were way more spectacular and different then the boring souless shred that unfortunately plagued much of 80's metal. You gotta remember Nirvana were a musical and cultural phenomenon rarely seen post-Beatles, and this cultural and musical phenomenon all came from a group who's music was based around the 'guitar'! For this he deserves to be ranked as highly as he is by critics. I don't care what brilliant metal guitarist you throw up (Criss Oliva as suggested by DallasBlack), their music fairly or unfairly only impacted on one small genre of music, while Kurt's music not only transcended different musical genres but also outside of the music world. You just can't compare. I don't care what he was like as a person, although some of the foul diatribe Mglaffas81 spat out seems unfair and rumour based. I just care about the brilliant creative knack Kurt and Nirvana had in grafting pure pop hooks and melody to hard forceful rythms and guitars, a talent few bands can achieve.

rattpoison wrote:

Kurt Cobain's guitar riffs were hooky and bouncy like Cheap Trick of old, you ask anyone and they can hum the opening guitar lines of the 'anthem to end all anthems' Smells Like Teen Spirit. His guitar solos while minimalist were way more spectacular and different then the boring souless shred that unfortunately plagued much of 80's metal. You gotta remember Nirvana were a musical and cultural phenomenon rarely seen post-Beatles, and this cultural and musical phenomenon all came from a group who's music was based around the 'guitar'! For this he deserves to be ranked as highly as he is by critics. I don't care what brilliant metal guitarist you throw up (Criss Oliva as suggested by DallasBlack), their music fairly or unfairly only impacted on one small genre of music, while Kurt's music not only transcended different musical genres but also outside of the music world. You just can't compare. I don't care what he was like as a person, although some of the foul diatribe Mglaffas81 spat out seems unfair and rumour based. I just care about the brilliant creative knack Kurt and Nirvana had in grafting pure pop hooks and melody to hard forceful rythms and guitars, a talent few bands can achieve.

You're right he was a mediocre musician who inspired tons of other mediocre musicians while the greats that the rest of us mentioned only inspired a small amount of greats. I'm sorry but one great unknown is worth 5 mediocre "legends" IMHO.

You would be hard pressed to find any band or musician of note and talent in the last 15 years that was not at least in the small way affected or influenced by Kurt Cobain and Nirvana. Nirvana broke down boundaries and refused to play to any cliche or set rules, alot of the musicians who were influenced by them took this attitude to heart. Kurt was influenced as much by the Knack and the Cars as he was by Black Flag or Celtic Frost, and thats what made him and his music so unique their was a great push-pull dynamic between the pop and underground music worlds in Nirvana's sound. Unlike the 'true metalheads' and their bands who worship Savatage (good band, not their fault) and the like, who pride themselves on being true to the genre and its set limits and rules. These bands while talented are sadly derivative and forgettable and are not very creative. The whole metal scene is like this now, its in its worst state ever because of attitudes like these. People just find their nice little niche and pound out the most pointless derivative music ever. No one want's to be break the rules anymore. Metal and hard music in general needs to be dangerous and spontaneous again. Come to think of it a band 'like' (not musically but attitude wise) Nirvana would be handy right now.

Why for someone who seems to have a certain disdain for "the most pointless derivative music ever" are you part of a metal dissucsion group? You seem to think that us hardcore metal heads are slaves to our music and are not open to other forms of music. I listen to Billy Joel, John Denver, Johnny Cash, The Lost Dogs, Soundgarden, All Star United, The Choir, Ben Folds, and many more if that is not open then I don' know what is. We listen to metal because we LOVE it not because we are trying to be "true". We don't give a rat's ass about about being revolutionary or changing the face of the music world. We listen to what we like not what is deemed as not following the satus quo. Good music is good music whether it is a carbon copy or an origional. The problem with mainstream is that every one is looking for the next "big thing" instead of just enjoying the music.

DallasBlack wrote:

Why for someone who seems to have a certain disdain for "the most pointless derivative music ever" are you part of a metal dissucsion group? You seem to think that us hardcore metal heads are slaves to our music and are not open to other forms of music. I listen to Billy Joel, John Denver, Johnny Cash, The Lost Dogs, Soundgarden, All Star United, The Choir, Ben Folds, and many more if that is not open then I don' know what is. We listen to metal because we LOVE it not because we are trying to be "true". We don't give a rat's ass about about being revolutionary or changing the face of the music world. We listen to what we like not what is deemed as not following the satus quo. Good music is good music whether it is a carbon copy or an origional. The problem with mainstream is that every one is looking for the next "big thing" instead of just enjoying the music.

Well said, Dallas, well said! ...all though, I can barely enjoy ANY music invented in the 90s...especially Grunge and Nu-Metal...to me, those two are some of, if not THE worst forms of music, or at least, some of the worst (incorrectly) labled forms of rock/metal.

THAT'S IT! I WARNED YOU KIDS TO STOP THIS ARGUING! I'M TURNING THIS CAR AROUND! NO WALLY WORLD FOR ANYBODY!!!

No Wally World?!

Fat Freddy wrote:

THAT'S IT! I WARNED YOU KIDS TO STOP THIS ARGUING! I'M TURNING THIS CAR AROUND! NO WALLY WORLD FOR ANYBODY!!!

..but.....but.....but.....

I laugh everytime I see Hit Parader. How many times a year do they release a "Top 100 Bands of All Time" list?

It's just so cheap and cheesey looking. But then ALL metal magazines are.

Is Metal Edge still around?

Metal Misfit wrote:

Is Metal Edge still around?

Yea, it is, believe it or not. It and Metal Maniacs are now being published by the same company that publishes "RELIX," which is a Deadhead/hippie/Jam-Band style magazine. Maniacs still looks pretty much the same but Edge seems to have gone thru another style overhaul and now they look like Revolver.

The last time I saw an issue of Metal Edge on the stands I noticed that it came poly-bagged with a free CD, which would've been nice if the bands on it weren't mostly terrible. I saw tracks from the new Helloween (which I already have) and the new Monster Magnet (which I don't have but want to) on it but the rest was stuff I've never heard of or which suck.

I may have mentioned this before but I remember a magazine that was short lived in the late 80's called "Power Metal" here in the U.S. The only issue I was able to afford had a live shot of Kerry King on the cover. I don't suppose anyone remembers that mag?

Other than that, I only ocassionally read RIP and Metal Maniacs up until the mid nineties. I am surprised Hit Parader is still around.

spectrefate wrote:

I may have mentioned this before but I remember a magazine that was short lived in the late 80's called "Power Metal" here in the U.S. The only issue I was able to afford had a live shot of Kerry King on the cover. I don't suppose anyone remembers that mag?

I think I had an ish of POWER METAL in the collection back then. If memory serves, it was an offshoot of Hit Parader. I picked up the issue in question because it had an article on Raven in it (this would've been around the time NOTHING EXCEEDS LIKE EXCESS was a new release) and I rarely, if ever, saw anything about them in US mags back then.

An offshoot of Hit Parader sounds about right for me in 88.