Coronavirus

That's a new one on me; toilet paper shortage?  I just went grocery shopping and they had plenty on the shelves.  Who the hell is hoarding toilet paper and why?  The runs aren't even part of the coronavirus symptomology.

Idiots.

It is kind of scary though when the CDC starts issuing warnings for anyone 60 or older to be able to "hunker down" in quarantine mode.  C'mon, I thought only "elderly" people really needed to worry about this; 60 is not "elderly" IMO (although it probably is to some of the young bastards).

Fat Freddy wrote:

scottmitchell74 wrote:

I've never been more furious with the mainstream media. They are whipping this into a panic.

I work for the mainstream media and even *I* think it's ridiculous.

Side note: why is everybody hoarding toilet paper? Soap/hand sanitizer, I understand. TP, not so much.
Are we supposed to build little forts out of it or something?

Fortunately we bought TP last week, before the shit hit the fan (pun intended) so we already have an adequate supply... I wouldn't want to be out looking for it now

Well I for one don't think that 'the mainstream media' are doing anything at all. Europe is deep into this, our governments are quarantining countries, health systems are collapsing, businesses and governments are DEEP into contingency planning, even our own government admit that 60% of people might get this (but are still letting planes from hot zones land and enter the U.K without so much as a wave of a thermometer) I have been following this and am very genuinely concerned, not so much because of the fairly modest numbers but because of the measures that are going in across the world to try and stop it becoming what they think it might become and the affect that it will have on an overworked and under funded NHS. I'm not advocating panic but I definitely feel that hope for the best, plan for the worst is sensible right now. It isn't 'the mainstream media' that are putting troops on the streets!

Just a few days ago your wise and caring leader said that they had definitely contained this due to his genius move of closing the borders to China when you had 60 cases. Now you have 1000+ cases and you have done fewer tests than Iceland (population 320,000) Once you start testing in earnest you will see where you actually are with this (this isn't U.S bashing, my country is also way behind countries that actually care about it's people)

As for hoarding, most of it is silly, considering the thing that will keep you safe is other people washing their hands (not you) then making sure that you are the only one with hand wash is stupid, I'm also pretty sure that coronavirus doesn't make you shit yourself to death so not sure about the toilet roll thing But I do think that having the ability to feed yourself in a crisis and have a stock of any medications you need for a little while makes sense (where do the worlds medications come from? Oh yeah, China!)

I've got absolutely no desire to become the coronavirus 'flat earth guy'. So if you think that I'm wrong then fair enough but I think that we are in for a tough couple of months no matter what 'the mainstream media' say or don't say.

Oh yeah and the global markets are also collapsing! (those guys tend to know what's going down no matter what the media reporting)

I completely agree with you Boris, on all your points (unfortunately).

Earlier today we got an email that a "contractor" that works for the bank at one of three corporate locations tested positive. This place is only the nest town over and I pass it on the way to my branch every morning. Like FF said earlier, shit just got real. Also, my wife's OT conference in Boston later this month was cancelled earlier today. They are having a staff meeting at her hospital to talk about emergency precautions. Most hospitals here have suspended visiting hours until further notice.

I think I'm most pissed off about them delaying the release of the new James Bond movie than anything else...

I am not denying the severity of the disease, and am taking it seriously, but haven't more people died from the flu than Coronavirus this year? There is a bit of sensationalizing going on with the local media, especially where I live. The smallest state in the Union remembers the blizzard of '78 all too well and panic buys milk and bread every time an inch of snow gets forecast. I also am old enough to remember when SARS was gonna wipe us all out, as well as the Avian flu, and there was a time when killer bees rom the gulf stream were going to over run Texas or some shit like that. This is why I am not a fan of the 24 hour news cycle...for anything.

the sentinel wrote:

I am not denying the severity of the disease, and am taking it seriously, but haven't more people died from the flu than Coronavirus this year? There is a bit of sensationalizing going on with the local media, especially where I live. The smallest state in the Union remembers the blizzard of '78 all too well and panic buys milk and bread every time an inch of snow gets forecast. I also am old enough to remember when SARS was gonna wipe us all out, as well as the Avian flu, and there was a time when killer bees rom the gulf stream were going to over run Texas or some shit like that. This is why I am not a fan of the 24 hour news cycle...for anything.

I get your point and I sincerely hope that this does turn out to be a false alarm but this thing is just getting started. If in a couple of months time it has still killed less than the flu then I'll be delighted but at the moment it's looking like the contagion rate and the mortality rate are MUCH higher than seasonal flu, but it's still too early to say whether the current trends will continue as it spreads.

The thing about viruses is that they mutate, very often they become less contagious,weaker and less dangerous, sometimes it goes the other way

Fat Freddy wrote:

I think I'm most pissed off about them delaying the release of the new James Bond movie than anything else...

Well I will be missing a concert in Greece this coming weekend with Toxik, Fifth Angel, Traveler and Riot City on the Bill, only to name a few .

Boris2008 wrote:

at the moment it's looking like the contagion rate and the mortality rate are MUCH higher than seasonal flu

That's where a big part of the concern lies. More people might have been killed by flu, but if your chances of dying of coronavirus once you've contracted it are greater then there's every reason to be concerned.

And to add to the public going crazy stories. Places have run out of face masks here, so now there's been a run on dust masks, even though those provide no protection whatsoever, with the result that building contractors, who have are the ones with a legitimate need for dust masks, are finding it difficult to get hold of any.

I grew up in the middle of the Civil War and spent years in the shelters during heavy bombing.

So I am used to dealing with much more dangerous issues. No panic from my side .

An experienced prepper who's been through much worse apocalyptic scenarios .

Is it wrong of me to have stolen a nine pack of toilet paper last weekend? I went grocery shopping and they must have had someone forget to grab their tp, so when he bagged my food, he assumed it was mine and threw it in the basket. My first thought was, I'm now set for the great plague everyone is in a panic over lol I could have told them it wasnt mine, but all's fair in the end of days!

People have been watching too much apocalypse movies/series that they want to live the thing for real.

Those preppers who spent their lives waiting for the zombie outbreak should be so happy now.

Damn! I just found out that the Pittsburgh St. Patrick's Day Parade was canceled for this upcoming Saturday due to the coronavirus outbreak. Disappointed in that call but what are you going to do? Better safe than sorry, I guess even though there are no cases in our area. Err on the side of caution.

Bands are cancelling shows and postponing tours all over the globe.

Not good for business. But hopefully a 2-3 week slowdown of mass events stops the spread and we'll soon be back to normal. People who currently have it need to heal properly, let their white blood cells kill it completely before going out and then we'll bounce back. The virus only sustains itself by spreading to new victims.

If it's completely uncontrolled it'll be like another Spanish flu. Everyone gets it and tens of millions die (hundreds?).

My brother is going to an Overkill show here in Jersey this coming weekend. It hasn't been cancelled yet but I wonder if he's losing sleep over it.

The NCAA just announced that the Round 1 games of the tournament will be played in empty venues, one of which is here in STL.  Bummer of multiple levels.  The "atmosphere" will be totally ruined and STL is eating a major shit sandwich by not having all the hotel and restaurant business March Madness games bring.  The city worked hard to land tournament games again and now it's all up in smoke.

In a complete change of direction Trump has.............Closed U.S borders to Europe! (but not the U.K)

This is just ridiculous! Does he understand how Europe works? Does he understand how this virus works?

If you are going to suspend air travel then fine (I personally think that all but absolutely essential travel should be stopped world wide) but he just isn't getting that we have free movement of people, I work with people from at least 15 different European nations who fly all over the place all of the time. Whatever they have on the continent, we have here, but we are 1-2 weeks behind some of the more affected nations but it's coming all right. Also some of the richer EU countries have done a lot more testing so have identified more cases but trust me, we are getting ready for a major outbreak.

He would be much better off getting those test kits out to the states and start identifying patterns and clusters of cases and taking the appropriate steps to try to contain this while he still has chance

Closing borders is not working, the only EU country to do this is Italy. But if you are going to do it then not including the U.K is like barricading your house and then leaving the back door wide open.

I'm guessing that it has something to do with business or maybe he wants his golf course managers to fly over with updates on profits!

Contagion factor;
Coronavirus-2
SARS-4
Measles-18

Just a little info. I think it’s good to take measures but not panic. And yes I think the media are sensationalizing it like they do so many other things.

Thrasher73 wrote:

Contagion factor;
Coronavirus-2
SARS-4
Measles-18

Just a little info. I think it’s good to take measures but not panic. And yes I think the media are sensationalizing it like they do so many other things.

The r0 for Covid-19 is an estimate and various researchers are putting it somewhere between 2 and 4 so it could be less than SARS and maybe not but the important factor is that SARS was contained and this isn't, not even close!

I agree that people shouldn't panic, there is absolutely no point but I am bemused by the lack of will to even try to get hold of this (Other than China who if you believe their numbers, have done a spectacular job of containment)

Boris2008 wrote:

In a complete change of direction Trump has.............Closed U.S borders to Europe! (but not the U.K)

This is just ridiculous! Does he understand how Europe works? Does he understand how this virus works?

If you are going to suspend air travel then fine (I personally think that all but absolutely essential travel should be stopped world wide) but he just isn't getting that we have free movement of people, I work with people from at least 15 different European nations who fly all over the place all of the time. Whatever they have on the continent, we have here, but we are 1-2 weeks behind some of the more affected nations but it's coming all right. Also some of the richer EU countries have done a lot more testing so have identified more cases but trust me, we are getting ready for a major outbreak.

He would be much better off getting those test kits out to the states and start identifying patterns and clusters of cases and taking the appropriate steps to try to contain this while he still has chance

Closing borders is not working, the only EU country to do this is Italy. But if you are going to do it then not including the U.K is like barricading your house and then leaving the back door wide open.

I'm guessing that it has something to do with business or maybe he wants his golf course managers to fly over with updates on profits!

It looks like everyone is confused by this, even my die-hard Trump fan friends. Perhaps the narrative will shift by tomorrow (whassup talk radio?!) to support this but for now it seems a lot of people on both sides are stumped.

Interesting post I found on the Hoffman forum:

"I'm a doctor in a major hospital in Western Europe. Watching you Americans (and you, Brits) in these still-early days of the coronavirus pandemic is like watching a familiar horror movie, where the protagonists, yet again, split into pairs or decide to take a tour of a dark basement.

The real-life versions of this behavior are pretending this is just a flu; keeping schools open; following through with your holiday travel plans, and going into the office daily. This is what we did in Italy. We were so complacent that even when people with coronavirus symptoms started turning up, we wrote each off as a nasty case of the flu. We kept the economy going, pointed fingers at China and urged tourists to keep traveling. And the majority of us told ourselves and each other: this isn't so bad. We're young, we're fit, we'll be fine even if we catch it.

Fast-forward two months, and we are drowning. Statistically speaking—judging by the curve in China—we are not even at the peak yet, but our fatality rate is at over 6 percent, double the known global average.

Put aside statistics. Here is how it looks in practice. Most of my childhood friends are now doctors working in north Italy. In Milan, in Bergamo, in Padua, they are having to choose between intubating a 40-year-old with two kids, a 40-year old who is fit and healthy with no co-morbidities, and a 60-year-old with high blood pressure, because they don't have enough beds. In the hallway, meanwhile, there are another 15 people waiting who are already hardly breathing and need oxygen.

The army is trying to bring some of them to other regions with helicopters but it's not enough: the flow is just too much, too many people are getting sick at the same time.

We are still awaiting the peak of the epidemic in Europe: probably early April for Italy, mid-April for Germany and Switzerland, somewhere around that time for the UK. In the U.S., the infection has only just begun.

But until we're past the peak, the only solution is to impose social restrictions.

And if your government is hesitating, these restrictions are up to you. Stay put. Do not travel. Cancel that family reunion, the promotion party and the big night out. This really sucks, but these are special times. Don't take risks. Do not go to places where you are more than 20 people in the same room. It's not safe and it's not worth it.

But why the urgency, if most people survive?

Here's why: Fatality is the wrong yardstick. Catching the virus can mess up your life in many, many more ways than just straight-up killing you. "We are all young"—okay. "Even if we get the bug, we will survive"—fantastic. How about needing four months of physical therapy before you even feel human again. Or getting scar tissue in your lungs and having your activity level restricted for the rest of your life. Not to mention having every chance of catching another bug in hospital, while you're being treated or waiting to get checked with an immune system distracted even by the false alarm of an ordinary flu. No travel for leisure or business is worth this risk.

mikeinfla wrote:

Interesting post I found on the Hoffman forum:

"I'm a doctor in a major hospital in Western Europe. Watching you Americans (and you, Brits) in these still-early days of the coronavirus pandemic is like watching a familiar horror movie, where the protagonists, yet again, split into pairs or decide to take a tour of a dark basement.

The real-life versions of this behavior are pretending this is just a flu; keeping schools open; following through with your holiday travel plans, and going into the office daily. This is what we did in Italy. We were so complacent that even when people with coronavirus symptoms started turning up, we wrote each off as a nasty case of the flu. We kept the economy going, pointed fingers at China and urged tourists to keep traveling. And the majority of us told ourselves and each other: this isn't so bad. We're young, we're fit, we'll be fine even if we catch it.

Fast-forward two months, and we are drowning. Statistically speaking—judging by the curve in China—we are not even at the peak yet, but our fatality rate is at over 6 percent, double the known global average.

Put aside statistics. Here is how it looks in practice. Most of my childhood friends are now doctors working in north Italy. In Milan, in Bergamo, in Padua, they are having to choose between intubating a 40-year-old with two kids, a 40-year old who is fit and healthy with no co-morbidities, and a 60-year-old with high blood pressure, because they don't have enough beds. In the hallway, meanwhile, there are another 15 people waiting who are already hardly breathing and need oxygen.

The army is trying to bring some of them to other regions with helicopters but it's not enough: the flow is just too much, too many people are getting sick at the same time.

We are still awaiting the peak of the epidemic in Europe: probably early April for Italy, mid-April for Germany and Switzerland, somewhere around that time for the UK. In the U.S., the infection has only just begun.

But until we're past the peak, the only solution is to impose social restrictions.

And if your government is hesitating, these restrictions are up to you. Stay put. Do not travel. Cancel that family reunion, the promotion party and the big night out. This really sucks, but these are special times. Don't take risks. Do not go to places where you are more than 20 people in the same room. It's not safe and it's not worth it.

But why the urgency, if most people survive?

Here's why: Fatality is the wrong yardstick. Catching the virus can mess up your life in many, many more ways than just straight-up killing you. "We are all young"—okay. "Even if we get the bug, we will survive"—fantastic. How about needing four months of physical therapy before you even feel human again. Or getting scar tissue in your lungs and having your activity level restricted for the rest of your life. Not to mention having every chance of catching another bug in hospital, while you're being treated or waiting to get checked with an immune system distracted even by the false alarm of an ordinary flu. No travel for leisure or business is worth this risk.

Interesting. Can you please put the link? I need to forward it to some ignorant fools around me.

Fat Freddy wrote:

My brother is going to an Overkill show here in Jersey this coming weekend. It hasn't been cancelled yet but I wonder if he's losing sleep over it.

My wife and I had been planning since last August to go to the Monster Mania convention in Cherry Hill, which we do every year. We decided on Tuesday we definitely weren't going and contacted about using our tickets for the August con. The whole convention was ultimately canceled yesterday, for the best for sure.

But I had been losing sleep over it for a day or two before we decided to cancel.

Boris2008 wrote:

In a complete change of direction Trump has.............Closed U.S borders to Europe! (but not the U.K)

He also said we "we need the wall more than ever".

So yeah. This situation would be a lot for any president to deal with--but I'd feel better if we had some sort of competent leadership at the moment.

I agree in ways that the media is, not sensationalizing it per se, but the 24-hour coverage intensifies the panic. But I guess we just need to look somewhere in between the media's response and Trump's "business as usual" line (and just disregard the "it's a dem hoax to take down the president" conspiracy).