Was glam metal misogynistic?

I think this has been asked before. Regardless, I was wondering how you would rank most of the glam metal bands on the misogyny meter. It does seem, that since glam/L.A. metal was a largely American movement, that the idea of having some sort of dominance over the female sex, getting laid ASAP to prove manhood, having leather and muscles, etc. were some of our cultural ideals that perverted the integrity of the genre. In comparison, UK and Euro metal was much more intelligent and artistic in comparison. But in regards to what would rank as one of the most misogynistic genres ever, I am wondering what you would give it from 1 (lowest) to 10 (highest). There is no doubt in my mind that hiphop has been more guilty in this regard than glam metal ever could, and had a much more lasting influence to boot. But some would say that things like Hot for Teacher or Ted Nugent's material showed where glam metal really put women. It then surprises me that so many women were falling for these bands with smutty ballads like Every Rose Has Its Thorns, considering how the artists lived, or perhaps they bought in to the romantic perception of what they must do to be beautiful, to appease the popular, wealthy male ranks and prove their worth. That itself is terribly unhealthy and persists even now. To see these artists gain any control over them under such blatantly sexualized conditions is pretty depressing. Some women who slept around with groups like this said in a documentary, "They got the fame and we just got the heartache". So do you think women who feel comfortable with sleaze rock and metal are desensitized to its ideals of women from the get go? How do you think they feel about the level of objectification that came from that culture? Hopefully, our friend 80's Metal Lady can fill us in on some of the latter questions. But what do you guys think of it? Do you think you might be less offended by it, having grown up in a culture that promoted these ideals since you were young?

Probably yea, but there were plenty of gals that went along for the ride too. Noone was forced into their spandex pants. Everyone enjoyed the fun while it lasted.

I read how glam metal was "racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, sexist and chauvinist" on a grunge forum once.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I read how glam metal was "racist, homophobic, xenophobic, misogynist, sexist and chauvinist" on a grunge forum once.

Sounds like you got redirected to Tumblr.

If it was, it was unintentional. It was supposed to be fun. I wouldn't call it misogynistic. More like juvenile.

To your latter questions, of which I can't answer, since I'm a dude, but I do want to point out that many females did and still do listen to all manner of rap that, as you mentioned, is way more misogynistic (generally speaking). I assume the answer lies in the "some people care, some people don't" area, and that would go for men and women.

To generalize for a moment, the songs the bands geared towards women were the ballads...and they were usually much less sleazy than the other songs on the album. "Cherry Pie" versus "Heaven". Also, some bands went way past any lines more so than other bands. I've never really thought of "Hot for Teacher" as that big of an offender. Sexual innuendos and thinking a woman is hot and sex and all that are not necessarily the biggest offenders. Listen to Alley Cat Scratch's "Love Song". To me, that song basically diminishes any merit the band has (not that they were successful, but as a fan of the genre, you know what I mean). If your average glam metal video sexualizes/objectifies women, then "Love Song" implied they were bags of meat created solely for the pleasure of men.

But when an alternate name for your brand of music is "sleaze metal", then what do we expect I guess, right?

Lari wrote:

If it was, it was unintentional. It was supposed to be fun. I wouldn't call it misogynistic. More like juvenile.

Exactly.

S.D. wrote:

Lari wrote:

If it was, it was unintentional. It was supposed to be fun. I wouldn't call it misogynistic. More like juvenile.

Exactly.  

I guess I never looked that deeply into it. If I liked a song musically, I liked it regardless of the lyrics. KISS is my favorite (at least top 5) band, and they are probably one of the worst in this category. I remember, as a kid, listening to "Goin' Blind." I really liked that song and thought it was beautiful. My mom came in and started laughing, "I'm 93, you're 16." I never really heard that line, but had to admit it was gross, LOL. When I was a little older, I listened to N.W.A. and Eazy E. As you guys probably know, they have really misogynist lyrics. It didn't bug me; I actually thought they were funny. I mean, they were rapping about chicks they knew who probably were hoes, LOL.

As far as glam rock goes, they were really young guys writing lyrics about, I would imagine, what was on their minds. Well, girls! It would be nice to have songs on deeper subjects, but they were writing fun, accessible rock music, so more intellectual subjects might not have worked well. They weren't writing epic, complicated tracks that could lend themselves to subjects like Alexander the Great, etc. I guess, for me, it just went with the territory and it didn't bother me.

80s glam was an extension of 70s glitter/glam rock...bands like T-Rex, The Sweet, Slade, Mott The hoople... If you go back and look at all these bands you will see the same type of lyrics and the same lifestyle... Essentially rock music has always been this way..And the 80s euro bands may have had a few different lyrics but their lifestyle and how they treated women was no different than the glam guys.. I think "using" women has always been there. I met an old man back when I lived in Lubbock who used to run with Buddy Holly and knew Elvis and Chuck Berry and he told me that back then they used women like crazy..(Elvis and buddy had a thing for 15 yo girls).. The American society as a whole objectifies women... As for being Misogynistic; I dont think so...more like being narcissistic maybe..LOL..

Not really. I mean, most of the bands weren't taking themselves too seriously.

On the other side of the coin, there's this:
http://www.supermusic.sk/skupina.php?action=piesen&idskupiny=587937&idpiesne=388383

I don't think there is any room for interpreting the lyrics any other way.

I would say yes, but as someone else wrote, I would agree it was not intentional. It was, for the most part, 18-25 year olds writing for the 15-25 year old demographic with the sappy, syrupy sweet "love" songs written for the 14 -21 year old female demo.

I also believe a lot of it was tongue in cheek and much like each Thrash band tried to be faster and louder than the previous one, the hair bands tried to outdo each other with lyrics, looks, and hooks. A winning "formula" as some (artists and record execs.) believed had been created and it could propel you to super stardom. So, some may have felt pressured to write a certain way. Just my 2 cents.

I think you people are misusing the word "misogynistic".

Quote :

Definition of misogynist in English:
noun
A person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

Does that definition fit any glam songs you know?

Glam bands routinely demeaned, dehumanized, objectified and mocked women but I think the "misogynistic" tag is over the top.

The Mentors were misogynistic.

Glam metal was just a bunch of dorks who figured out that the fastest way into a chick's pants was with a power ballad.

Fat Freddy wrote:

The Mentors were misogynistic.

Glam metal was just a bunch of dorks who figured out that the fastest way into a chick's pants was with a power ballad.

Yep.  I can think of a bunch of death metal or grindcore bands that are/were truly misogynistic.  I can't come up with one glam band.

tohostudios wrote:

I think you people are misusing the word "misogynistic".

Quote :

Definition of misogynist in English:
noun
A person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

Does that definition fit any glam songs you know?  

Glam bands routinely demeaned, dehumanized, objectified and mocked women but I think the "misogynistic" tag is over the top.  

Yup, it was also the times, rap was probably worse. I didn't read any genuine hatred of women into anything those bands were doing (G&R's rape cover being the closest) I mean, it's not like they were saying that she should be made to smell the glove, well she should be made to smell it, but not over and over.......

Fat Freddy wrote:

The Mentors were misogynistic.

Glam metal was just a bunch of dorks who figured out that the fastest way into a chick's pants was with a power ballad.

Those are not dorks, those are wise men right there! 

Boris2008 wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I think you people are misusing the word "misogynistic".

Quote :

Definition of misogynist in English:
noun
A person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

Does that definition fit any glam songs you know?  

Glam bands routinely demeaned, dehumanized, objectified and mocked women but I think the "misogynistic" tag is over the top.  

Yup, it was also the times, rap was probably worse. I didn't read any genuine hatred of women into anything those bands were doing (G&R's rape cover being the closest) I mean, it's not like they were saying that she should be made to smell the glove, well she should be made to smell it, but not over and over.......

Gotta love a Spinal Tap reference.

Boris2008 wrote:

 I mean, it's not like they were saying that she should be made to smell the glove, well she should be made to smell it, but not over and over.......

"You should've seen the cover they wanted to do. It wasn't a glove, believe me!"

Fat Freddy wrote:

Boris2008 wrote:

 I mean, it's not like they were saying that she should be made to smell the glove, well she should be made to smell it, but not over and over.......

"You should've seen the cover they wanted to do. It wasn't a glove, believe me!"

That movie just never gets old for me.

tohostudios wrote:

I think you people are misusing the word "misogynistic".

Quote :

Definition of misogynist in English:
noun
A person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

Does that definition fit any glam songs you know?  

Glam bands routinely demeaned, dehumanized, objectified and mocked women but I think the "misogynistic" tag is over the top.  

I'm going to second this. Unfortunately, the modern interpretation of any kind of prejudice seems to be, "I said something someone of a demographic didn't like." Genuine prejudice is to look at someone and say, "You are an X, therefore you are $#@% and I hate you."

And, if you can even call them glam, G&R is probably the only band of that era that slipped into the latter. "Turn around $#%#@, I got a use for you. Besides, you ain't got nothing better to do and I'm bored." That ain't exactly a term of endearment.

For the best and the rest of that style and era, I'd just chalk it up to a very selfish and juvenile view of sex. It's this idea of, "Oh, this is fun and I enjoy it... Oh, you wanted to have fun too? Eh, maybe later."

Runicen wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I think you people are misusing the word "misogynistic".

Quote :

Definition of misogynist in English:
noun
A person who dislikes, despises, or is strongly prejudiced against women.

Does that definition fit any glam songs you know?  

Glam bands routinely demeaned, dehumanized, objectified and mocked women but I think the "misogynistic" tag is over the top.  

I'm going to second this.  Unfortunately, the modern interpretation of any kind of prejudice seems to be, "I said something someone of a demographic didn't like."  Genuine prejudice is to look at someone and say, "You are an X, therefore you are $#@% and I hate you."

Can't speak for anyone else, but I was apparently misusing the word misogynist, as determined by Toho's posting of the literal definition. So I assume most others were too (who knows though), and anyone who happened to agree that glam bands were misogynists probably were not, like myself, saying the bands despised, disliked or were prejudiced against women, which I agree would be over the top to claim.

I was just kind of meaning that glam bands "routinely demeaned, dehumanized, objectified and mocked women" (quoting not for sarcasm or a dig, but because it was well worded). I misused the term misogynist to include all of the above in a single word basically.

The lyrics for a lot of the songs, while I certainly still listen to a large number of the glam/sleaze metal bands, have made me realize, as an adult, that a lot of my tween idols were just douche bags.

But take all that for whatever. I mean, I'm the type of dude that has stated before that I won't buy albums from the numerous metal bands with album covers depicting a woman with a dude holding a knife to her throat. That shit bugs me to no end.

Most glam metal bands do not have the necessary IQ to deliver messages.

it is all about fun and all is unintentional for sure.

ZombieHavoc wrote:

The lyrics for a lot of the songs, while I certainly still listen to a large number of the glam/sleaze metal bands, have made me realize, as an adult, that a lot of my tween idols were just douche bags.

Kind of an important point here. I think there's a bit of a divider between being a full-blown misogynist and just being the kind of guy any father of a daughter would have concerns about. It's possible to be a jerk without having a pathological bias against an entire class of person.

That said, how many great rock, metal or blues songs have been written about nagging wives, unfaithful girlfriends, etc. that are at least a little tongue in cheek? Probably fair to say that we'd need context here and it does matter a bit what kind of person the artist is. Alice Cooper, for example, has written a few songs about being under the thumb of some domineering dame and, by all accounts, he's a devoted husband and father, so it CAN be in good fun.

Now, if you want a real conversation, why aren't there more bands made up of women singing songs about the guy who leaves the toilet seat up?

Anyone that had a problem with it back then typically had some kind of agenda against everything "fun" and "popular" and they still have that same stick up their asses today about whatever the younger generation is doing.