Divisiveness of metal musicians?

Which genre or subgenre rather, of metal has the most cold and divisive musicians? I hear alot of them come across as tough but rarely are, but the black metal culture seems to harbor alot more extremist musicians than the others, as is the case with Burzum. Also, it seems the more brutal it is, the more cynical the musicians actually are. Seems the traditional metal bands have the nicest people in real life vs. the more radical ones. Seems to correlate with the culture, obviously.

I don't know that this can be determined with any degree of certainty. It would all be based on speculation and a few interview quotes.

Someone like Varg, obviously, talks a lot so you have more to go on. But it doesn't mean that all Black Metal musicians, especially some of the original wave who are all older and more settled down now, still hold the extreme views they held when they were younger.

This really seems to be a toss-up. Read Dee Snyder's autobiography and you'll realize how nasty the "hair" metal scene could be from time to time. It wasn't something the public was aware of, but there were some nasty buggers there.

With black metal, the trick is figuring out who was playing a character, who was just being a dumb kid (most of those guys were 18 or so when they started playing/recording), and who was legit kind of nuts (Burzum). The most divisive figures in that scene seem to be the ones who talk a lot of crap but who never actually DID anything. Those who actually did the stuff are either really repentant over it now or say NOTHING about it at all. I'm thinking specifically of Hellhammer from Mayhem who was in the "Until the Light Takes Us" documentary talking all manner of stupid $#@% encouraging the murder of homosexuals or whatever when it was always other people in the scene actually going out and doing the stuff. Not that talking about it's particularly comforting either, but when the dude sitting next to you actually went out and did it... And now I'm comparing hardcore levels in the black metal scene... Abandon paragraph!

Beyond that, prog metal is divisive, but that's because everyone will always be questioning whether they're too prog or too metal... or if that bridge should have been in 13/8 instead of 4/4 time.

I don't really like to trash talk people that i don't know but some of the black metal bands have spouted some repugnant shit over the years. Other than that I just stick with i don't know them.

Over-thinking heavy metal takes all the fun out of it. Enjoy it for what it is, man.

National Socialist Black Metal

Kind of says all about your character if you decide to play in one of those bands.

Varg seems to be hailed as a hero by much of the metal community, despite being a neo-Nazi and a murderer. How sad.

Varg is a hard one to read - and this is going to sound like I'm defending the guy. Being clear, I'm not. BUT... Having read what HE actually has to say rather than second hand stuff, here's the skinny on him that seems to make sense (at least to me):

-He's not a national socialist because he hates socialism in all its forms. He IS, however, a raving anti-semite. He just doesn't put in with the political side of the Nazi thing (because that makes it SOOO much better).

-He's BIG into something resembling Eugenics, but he's also one of those scary guys who actually has said that he doesn't consider whites the pinnacle of the ladder. It makes a sick sort of sense when you place your own group in the position of pride - you're just boosting your own. When you're NOT doing that, it... It's a kind of dedication to a rather repugnant idea that I can't wrap my head around.

-On the murder front, consider that people in the black metal scene HAD killed - some of them "just because" they wanted to know what it felt like. When Varg says that he killed Euronymous from Mayhem because he was convinced Euronymous would have killed him if he hadn't... He may have judged it wrong, but I wouldn't call it beyond the realm of possibility given the cast and crew of that scene at the time.

So, he's still a person who holds some pretty damn bizarre and sick views, but I don't think anyone would care half as much as they do if he wasn't also considered a cold-blooded killer, which doesn't seem to fit given the facts such as they are. It's also that sick thing people do with historical figures like Hitler - you give them this almost supernatural significance when, in the case of Varg, it's just some dude who says some sick @%$# and killed someone once. Not exactly the stuff of suburban bliss, but hardly Pol Pot either...

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Over-thinking heavy metal takes all the fun out of it. Enjoy it for what it is, man.

Truth. Over-thinking anything takes all the fun out of it.  Sadly it seems to be the #1 pastime on the internet.

Respectfully disagree. Under-thinking it (or under-listening, or focusing on the personal/TMZ aspects of bands) is an impediment to appreciating the music as a whole.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Respectfully disagree.  Under-thinking it (or under-listening, or focusing on the personal/TMZ aspects of bands) is an impediment to appreciating the music as a whole.

I think it's all a question of WHAT you're thinking about. If you're digging into Manowar expecting something deep, you will either be disappointed or lose your damn mind.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Respectfully disagree.  Under-thinking it (or under-listening, or focusing on the personal/TMZ aspects of bands) is an impediment to appreciating the music as a whole.

I totally get that.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Respectfully disagree.  Under-thinking it (or under-listening, or focusing on the personal/TMZ aspects of bands) is an impediment to appreciating the music as a whole.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, not over-thinking, not under-thinking, just THINKING.

S.D. wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Respectfully disagree.  Under-thinking it (or under-listening, or focusing on the personal/TMZ aspects of bands) is an impediment to appreciating the music as a whole.

The truth is somewhere in the middle, not over-thinking, not under-thinking, just THINKING.  

Sure. To me, music is entertainment. It can make me happy, sad, angry, or any range or emotions in between. If by chance it happens to make me think a little deeper on a subject or form an opinion, that's fine. It's happened once or twice, I'll admit it. However, I'm not looking for answers to life's big questions when I put on an AC/DC album.

Music at it's best for me takes me away from over thinking anything and I just go with it to another place (not very technical I know!  ) I find music to be very emotional which really doesn't lend itself to analysis.

i imagine that it's different for musicians (and some jazz/prog fans) as they tend to look at the technical side of the creation of the music, but not me.

Boris2008 wrote:

Music at it's best for me takes me away from over thinking anything and I just go with it to another place (not very technical I know!  ) I find music to be very emotional which really doesn't lend itself to analysis.

i imagine that it's different for musicians (and some jazz/prog fans) as they tend to look at the technical side of the creation of the music, but not me.

I have a tendency to over-think and over-analyze movies and it takes the joy out of just watching it for what it is, entertainment. Just ask my wife. She can't stand watching movies with me because I just nit-pick and criticize.

I don't want that to happen to my music.

Runicen wrote:

I think it's all a question of WHAT you're thinking about.  If you're digging into Manowar expecting something deep, you will either be disappointed or lose your damn mind.  

Sounds like all you're paying attention to is the lyrics.  There is some really great music there.

"Manowar" is more than their lyrics.

I kind of miss being a kid with a skin-deep knowledge of rock and metal musicians. That sort of naivete made for life-size gods and idols, and their music had a greater degree of importance than it does today. Exploration wasn't an exposition; it was a narration.

But there I go, over-thinking again.

I tend to heavily-analyze things that I find flawed in some aspect, that's usually what kicks in the inner critic. But if I listen to something like John Coltrane's Crescent album, the inner critic shuts up in utter awe at the magic coming out of the speakers.

It can run both ways, and that's kind of the fun with this stuff.


Hey, we can't feel too bad. There are entire career paths that involve trying to argue that art needs to be considered in context with its creator vs. art should be taken as a separate thing from the people who made it. Seriously, there are professors in this stuff... I think we can all sleep a little easier once that sinks in.

I definitely don't think the metal scene suffers from an epidemic of "over-thinking".

Temple of Blood wrote:

I definitely don't think the metal scene suffers from an epidemic of "over-thinking".

Truer words were never spoken.

WTF is a "Varg"?

I like the kind of song that makes me think.....



      BEER

There are times I think I know what a song is about and I am pretty close when I see or read an interview that confirms my guess; and then there are times I am waaayyyy off.