Fake Live Albums

In recent memory, the only live album that didn't click and sounded "messed with" is Priest Live. I don't have any issue with bands tweaking their albums, after all, they need to be happy with the product. It's really cool if the band is up front with it. I generally really dig live albums. Many times it can turn into a major project, cause the guitarist, bassist and drummer may not be exactly in tune, but they are with each other and that locked in beat is hard to punch in, and redoing one thing leads to many and so on. Often my opinion fluctuates from band to band and is dependent on how "on" they sound. I'd much rather hear mistakes rather than a technically excellent, but sterile performance.

The completely live and un-doctored Black Sabbath release "Live At Hammersmith Odeon" is about 10 times better than the overly-tweaked Live Evil which was pulled from multiple different concerts and has no organic flow to it.

Chairman_Smith wrote:

Type O Negative's The Origin of Feces is completely doctored.

I think it goes beyond doctored. Didn't the record it in one of the band member's basements and overdub themselves as the crowd?

Finally got around to hearing Grand Funk Live ('71 I think?) on vinyl. I had heard Caught in the Act plenty of times but being more a fan of their early work than what came later I'm surprised I hadn't heard this one already.

On the sleeve it's noted that there are no overdubs or manipulations, and damn that has got to be accurate. It is one of the rawest and loudest live albums I've ever heard, messy in many parts, treble is through the roof, tuning problems abound, Mark's voice going to pot after all the [beautiful] screaming he pulls off--and I love every minute of it. Seriously, it could easily be in my top 5 favorite live albums. The sound of Heartbreaker alone is worth it.

The albums is so authentic of its era that I swore I was getting a contact buzz and going deaf. Hyperbole perhaps, but hard to contain my enthusiasm for a newfound love.

Anyone know any background info (ie studio doctoring, overdubs) on Iced Earth's Alive in Athens release from 1999? I'm listening to it now and the album is just soooooo intense. It also at times sounds a little "too clean" for a live release.

The only thing I know is that it was 2 shows played back-to-back and pieced together for one 3-cd set. I'm not a big live album guy, but I do love this one.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Anyone know any background info (ie studio doctoring, overdubs) on Iced Earth's Alive in Athens release from 1999? I'm listening to it now and the album is just soooooo intense. It also at times sounds a little "too clean" for a live release.

The only thing I know is that it was 2 shows played back-to-back and pieced together for one 3-cd set. I'm not a big live album guy, but I do love this one.

I think it's a very safe bet that it's fake.

Temple of Blood wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Anyone know any background info (ie studio doctoring, overdubs) on Iced Earth's Alive in Athens release from 1999? I'm listening to it now and the album is just soooooo intense. It also at times sounds a little "too clean" for a live release.

The only thing I know is that it was 2 shows played back-to-back and pieced together for one 3-cd set. I'm not a big live album guy, but I do love this one.

I think it's a very safe bet that it's fake.

Something about Barlow's vocals (always spot-on) and the way the crowd interaction fades in and out at just the right moments makes me think it's just "too perfect" for a live album, ya know? It's not taking away from my enjoyment of it though. It's still a killer disc.

Personally, many times I don't really care. If the album is enjoyable as an "album" and doesn't just sound like a mirror image of the studio recordings then I'm fine if it's 100% live, 80% live or 50% live.

I also think that in most cases few people would be able to tell if a live recording contained overdubs or not.

Not even that "crowd noise fading up and down" is a dead giveaway, that can be accomplished either via noise gate or manually via final mixing.

Yea, I can't say that I'm really fussed by it either way. It's still a good listen. Since I've been listening to music in work with big, comfy headphones on, I'm noticing things in albums that I never noticed before.

S.D. wrote:

Personally, many times I don't really care.  If the album is enjoyable as an "album" and doesn't just sound like a mirror image of the studio recordings then I'm fine if it's 100% live, 80% live or 50% live.  

I also think that in most cases few people would be able to tell if a live recording contained overdubs or not.  

Not even that "crowd noise fading up and down" is a dead giveaway, that can be accomplished either via noise gate or manually via final mixing.  

Often, isn't the audience separately miced up? I seem to recall reading the liners of some reissued live albums and they mentioned that people accused the album of being "faked" because of how cued up the audience was. It turns out that, becuase there were so many keyboards on stage, most everything was actually plugged directly into the PA and wasn't miced, so the only way to get the "room" was to put microphones specifically on the audience.

I mean, that kind of nudges into the question of what a live album is supposed to be about. Why not just do your studio album with pre-recorded applause from the beginning?

It's a hard call and, for my money, I've gotta call in the "fun factor" on live records. Some are just FUN to listen to and make you wish you were there, even if the recording was so doctored that there never was a "there" to be. The last one that really grabbed me by the collar was the expanded Extraterrestrial Live by the Blue Oyster Cult. It was just a stupid fun live recording to listen to and a lot cleaner sounding than On Your Feet or On Your Knees (which is good too).

Quote :

Paul Dianno & Killers - South American Assault Live (This is completely fake. They even made up a fake tour in the liner notes!)

After reading through this thread, I actually respect this: if you're going to be fake you might as well take it all the way and do something like make up an entire tour!

Runicen wrote:

Chairman_Smith wrote:

Type O Negative's The Origin of Feces is completely doctored.

I think it goes beyond doctored.  Didn't the record it in one of the band member's basements and overdub themselves as the crowd?

I believe the band was actually playing the songs live (though they did it in a studio, not at a gig) and the crowd noises were provided by a bunch of their family and friends.

Runicen wrote:

Often, isn't the audience separately miced up?  I seem to recall reading the liners of some reissued live albums and they mentioned that people accused the album of being "faked" because of how cued up the audience was.  It turns out that, becuase there were so many keyboards on stage, most everything was actually plugged directly into the PA and wasn't miced, so the only way to get the "room" was to put microphones specifically on the audience.

Let's ignore modern tech and just go with live albums of the past for this particular question.

Yes. You have to add room mics to pick up the audience reactions (if you want to hear them that is, some live albums basically ignore the crowd reaction entirely - King Crimson for example).

Aside from that it's basically the same as a studio recording. You bring in a mobile recording unit which has multi-track capability (now it will be Pro Tools). Some instruments may be run direct, some may be mic'd. You give everything it's own track so you can mix it after the gig. Mid 70s era people were probably using 16 track recorders for capturing the live album. Several mics for the drums, guitars amps generally mic'd, bass either mic'd or run direct (or both and mix the two together), etc. You then take the recordings to a studio for mixing. Because it's multitrack it allows you to change the balance of the instruments, EQ specific tracks, decide how loud/quiet the crowd noise will be, etc.

For the record, for a live album you don't care one bit about the PA or what it sounds like in the venue, that's a wholly separate 2-channel mix that has no impact on what you're recording.

That's the difference between a "soundboard recording" and an actual multi-track live recording. A soundboard recording is just a 2-channel stereo mix taken directly from the main outputs, the same exact mix people heard when they saw the concert live. However, that recording was balanced specifically for the acoustical properties of the venue, you're not making EQ choices based solely on how you want it to sound, you're making those choices to work within that space (so mics don't feedback, etc).

glassprison wrote:

Quote :

Paul Dianno & Killers - South American Assault Live (This is completely fake. They even made up a fake tour in the liner notes!)

After reading through this thread, I actually respect this:  if you're going to be fake you might as well take it all the way and do something like make up an entire tour!

This makes me think of Seinfeld when George tells Jerry that he's been a fake architect long enough to afford a house in the Hamptons.

I bought, on Ebay, Malmsteen's 'double live' 2 cd concert. 5 bucks !
First of all, most photos were of Malmsteen, none of others - lol -
I didn't see where 'the concert' took place either - not a big deal -
Listened to it at night, going to sleep....at just the right level......
My very first thought - was - the crowd noise is a total FAKE -
It's like someone in a studio somewhere - turned a volume knob -
at certian points -no emotional cheering - it was more like static volume. Blatant.
And, of course, some songs, had TWO guitars, playing - here and there -
mind you, I wasn't listening for any of this - it was just THAT obvious.
Then I thought of this web site - and the topic - lol -
Also, what irks me most, the singer, he hits every single exact note -
perfectly and clearly - every song -
Then when he says something between songs - to the people -
his voice sounds distant - and not sincere - as the crowd static even keel -
Malmsteen's playing IS fantastic - fast - magical - all of it -
Red House, he imatates even Hendrix's singing style - kinda odd.