Exodus fan jailed for posting lyrics on Facebook

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Just to simplify this thread - half of us here believe that the constitution should never be violated no matter what.  And the other half believe that it is ok for civil rights to be violated in the name of public safety.  And I am not saying that either one of us are 100% correct.  But, let's ALL call it what it is, regardless of opinion.

That's grossly oversimplifying things, what if the guy had been posting those lyrics as an ominous warning? I say better safe then sorry, a minor inconvenience on one person is nothing compared to potentially letting a massacre happen when you could've prevented it.

If this had occurred say 3 or 4 years ago things probably would've been different, but after tragedies like Aurora, authorities are very much on edge about not letting something like that ever happen again if they can help it. Psychiatrists and university officials ignored numerous warning signs that James Holmes was a very unstable and dangerous individual, and because they didn't pay attention to those warnings or didn't take them seriously, 22 people paid the price with their lives, and now nobody wants to take the risk of overlooking anything like that. I would hardly call that "unconstitutional", I say you can never be too careful when it comes to this sort of thing

The guy maybe a moron or not, but 8 days for posting lyrics from an album that came out 29 years ago, c'mon!!!!

Vexer6 wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Just to simplify this thread - half of us here believe that the constitution should never be violated no matter what.  And the other half believe that it is ok for civil rights to be violated in the name of public safety.  And I am not saying that either one of us are 100% correct.  But, let's ALL call it what it is, regardless of opinion.

That's grossly oversimplifying things, what if the guy had been posting those lyrics as an ominous warning?  I say better safe then sorry, a minor inconvenience on one person is nothing compared to potentially letting a massacre happen when you could've prevented it.  

If this had occurred say 3 or 4 years ago things probably would've been different, but after tragedies like Aurora, authorities are very much on edge about not letting something like that ever happen again if they can help it. Psychiatrists and university officials ignored numerous warning signs that James Holmes was a very unstable and dangerous individual, and because they didn't pay attention to those warnings or didn't take them seriously, 22 people paid the price with their lives, and now nobody wants to take the risk of overlooking anything like that. I would hardly call that "unconstitutional", I say you can never be too careful when it comes to this sort of thing

Where do you draw a line with mass surveilance with no validating evidence? Also, it sounds like you have never done 8 days in jail before, let alone 'a' day. Well listen...it f*cking sucks, especially when it is unwarranted, and is hardly a minor inconveinance to the said party. Not to mention this little mishap is a permanent mark on this individuals record that may or may not be expunged later...all because folks in this country are wigged out because everyones paranoid about everyone and everything.

Based on the states profiling of sanity I'm pretty sure most of us on this board would be locked away by now..especially that Vexer kid, I mean what a psycho. I'm kidding, but I hope you see what I mean.

Vexer6 wrote:

what if the guy had been posting those lyrics as an ominous warning?  

"What If's" are simply that. Ice-T never spent a day in jail for his "What If". Neither has Bruce Dickinson, El Duce, or even GG Allin. You are going overboard thinking "words" equal "actions"! You are 24 and have very little experience. Yet, you say nothing about Bud Light commercials. What kills more? Song lyrics or beer?

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

what if the guy had been posting those lyrics as an ominous warning?  

"What If's" are simply that.  Ice-T never spent a day in jail for his "What If".  Neither has Bruce Dickinson, El Duce, or even GG Allin.  You are going overboard thinking "words" equal "actions"!  You are 24 and have very little experience.  Yet, you say nothing about Bud Light commercials.  What kills more?  Song lyrics or beer?

+1

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

what if the guy had been posting those lyrics as an ominous warning?  

"What If's" are simply that.  Ice-T never spent a day in jail for his "What If".  Neither has Bruce Dickinson, El Duce, or even GG Allin.  You are going overboard thinking "words" equal "actions"!  You are 24 and have very little experience.  Yet, you say nothing about Bud Light commercials.  What kills more?  Song lyrics or beer?

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

I really don't see what on earth beer commercials have to do with anything in this thread.

Just because i'm younger then you doesn't automatically mean I have "very little" experience(experience with what exactly?), you don't know me at all, so don't even try to pretend like you do.

Stender wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Just to simplify this thread - half of us here believe that the constitution should never be violated no matter what.  And the other half believe that it is ok for civil rights to be violated in the name of public safety.  And I am not saying that either one of us are 100% correct.  But, let's ALL call it what it is, regardless of opinion.

That's grossly oversimplifying things, what if the guy had been posting those lyrics as an ominous warning?  I say better safe then sorry, a minor inconvenience on one person is nothing compared to potentially letting a massacre happen when you could've prevented it.  

If this had occurred say 3 or 4 years ago things probably would've been different, but after tragedies like Aurora, authorities are very much on edge about not letting something like that ever happen again if they can help it. Psychiatrists and university officials ignored numerous warning signs that James Holmes was a very unstable and dangerous individual, and because they didn't pay attention to those warnings or didn't take them seriously, 22 people paid the price with their lives, and now nobody wants to take the risk of overlooking anything like that. I would hardly call that "unconstitutional", I say you can never be too careful when it comes to this sort of thing

Where do you draw a line with mass surveilance with no validating evidence? Also, it sounds like you have never done 8 days in jail before, let alone 'a' day. Well listen...it f*cking sucks, especially when it is unwarranted, and is hardly a minor inconveinance to the said party. Not to mention this little mishap is a permanent mark on this individuals record that may or may not be expunged later...all because folks in this country are wigged out because everyones paranoid about everyone and everything.

Based on the states profiling of sanity I'm pretty sure most of us on this board would be locked away by now..especially that Vexer kid, I mean what a psycho. I'm kidding, but I hope you see what I mean.

Yeah it sucks when it's unwarranted, but it would suck even worse if it actually WAS a threat and authorities did NOT take it seriously and people died because of it.

What's tripping me out is that i agree with everyone here so far. And the fact that this thread hasn't been locked in two pages. :-)

I just wonder whether there's more to it than just the lyrics. Eight days does seem excessive simply for posting those lyrics (no matter how stupid it was of him to post them in the first place), so could it be possible that he was initially held because of the lyrics but further investigation revealed more things that needed time to look into?

Of course, that may not have happened, but often with stories like this there are additional details that make the response seem much more reasonable that get left out in the interests of sensationalism.

Citanul wrote:

I just wonder whether there's more to it than just the lyrics.  Eight days does seem excessive simply for posting those lyrics (no matter how stupid it was of him to post them in the first place), so could it be possible that he was initially held because of the lyrics but further investigation revealed more things that needed time to look into?

Of course, that may not have happened, but often with stories like this there are additional details that make the response seem much more reasonable that get left out in the interests of sensationalism.

Yeah that seems more likely, maybe someone discovered that the guy had a history of violent behavior and/or making threats of violence?

I think that age does come into this, no matter how you dress it up 8 days detention without charge seems abhorrent to me and completely at odds with my concept of a fair and just society. All perfectly legal these days and you can always bring in past events as justification.

I suppose I'd better go and burn my copy of The Distillers Sing Sing Death house now before the police find out I own it.

Vexer6 wrote:

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

So, your opinion is to get rid of social media then? Free speech is only allowed by "artists", radio-heads, and politicians?

And now I just did the same. Come get me.

I think i can hear Fat Freddy's footsteps down the hall.

S.D. is running full speed

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

So, your opinion is to get rid of social media then?  Free speech is only allowed by "artists", radio-heads, and politicians?  

And now I just did the same.  Come get me.

No, i'm saying people should watch what they say on social media, like others have said, too many people have the mistaken impression that what you post on sites like Facebook is private when it is not, you should really think carefully before you post or you could get fired from your job or worse.

Boris2008 wrote:

I think that age does come into this, no matter how you dress it up 8 days detention without charge seems abhorrent to me and completely at odds with my concept of a fair and just society. All perfectly legal these days and you can always bring in past events as justification.

I suppose I'd better go and burn my copy of  The Distillers Sing Sing Death house now before the police find out I own it.

I don't really see what age has to do with it(though the whole posting lyrics on Facebook thing is something you'd expect a teenager to do, not a 31 year old man).

8 Days is inconvenient and unfair yes, but I wouldn't quite call it abhorrent.

Vexer6 wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

So, your opinion is to get rid of social media then?  Free speech is only allowed by "artists", radio-heads, and politicians?  

And now I just did the same.  Come get me.

No, i'm saying people should watch what they say on social media, like others have said, too many people have the mistaken impression that what you post on sites like Facebook is private when it is not, you should really think carefully before you post or you could get fired from your job or worse.

Why not just settle for not telling people what to do when it comes to their free speech? Here let Discharge help you out..

Love this song! It's awesome!

Stender wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

So, your opinion is to get rid of social media then?  Free speech is only allowed by "artists", radio-heads, and politicians?  

And now I just did the same.  Come get me.

No, i'm saying people should watch what they say on social media, like others have said, too many people have the mistaken impression that what you post on sites like Facebook is private when it is not, you should really think carefully before you post or you could get fired from your job or worse.

Why not just settle for not telling people what to do when it comes to their free speech? Here let Discharge help you out..

I hate it to break it to you, but just because you CAN say something doesn't automatically mean that you SHOULD say something, i'm just saying when it comes to free speech you sometimes need to use common freaking sense(I.E. don't make jokes about killing the president). Why not just settle for not saying stupid sh*t that could potentially be miscontrued?

BTW that Discharge song sucks.

The purpose of free speech is to defend the right for someone to say that which you may find abhorrent. I have no clue or idea why he posted the lyrics to an Exodus tune, nor should it matter.

If the police saw this because a concerned citizen read it and thought he was going off the deep end, fine, question him. But no need a arrest a person because of what you think that person might be thinking or what you think he or she may do. Especially based on a lyric from an album that came out 29 years ago, hell it would not matter if the album came out 29 minutes ago.

Arresting someone for posting lyrics whether attributed or not, is beyond ridiculous.

Vexer6 wrote:

Stender wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

So, your opinion is to get rid of social media then?  Free speech is only allowed by "artists", radio-heads, and politicians?  

And now I just did the same.  Come get me.

No, i'm saying people should watch what they say on social media, like others have said, too many people have the mistaken impression that what you post on sites like Facebook is private when it is not, you should really think carefully before you post or you could get fired from your job or worse.

Why not just settle for not telling people what to do when it comes to their free speech? Here let Discharge help you out..

I hate it to break it to you, but just because you CAN say something doesn't automatically mean that you SHOULD say something, i'm just saying when it comes to free speech you sometimes need to use common freaking sense(I.E. don't make jokes about killing the president).  Why not just settle for not saying stupid sh*t that could potentially be miscontrued?

BTW that Discharge song sucks.

As another 24 year old, I highly recommend you educate yourself about what the first ammendment in this country entails because what you are saying has nothing to do with the actual right of free speech. Free speech dosn't take into account speech in bad taste or out of common sense...nor should it have to.

Stender wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Stender wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

UNCLE SAXON'S KICKASS CDS wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Again, none of them posted lyrics on a Facebook page without actually identifying them as lyrics, so it's not the same thing.

So, your opinion is to get rid of social media then?  Free speech is only allowed by "artists", radio-heads, and politicians?  

And now I just did the same.  Come get me.

No, i'm saying people should watch what they say on social media, like others have said, too many people have the mistaken impression that what you post on sites like Facebook is private when it is not, you should really think carefully before you post or you could get fired from your job or worse.

Why not just settle for not telling people what to do when it comes to their free speech? Here let Discharge help you out..

I hate it to break it to you, but just because you CAN say something doesn't automatically mean that you SHOULD say something, i'm just saying when it comes to free speech you sometimes need to use common freaking sense(I.E. don't make jokes about killing the president).  Why not just settle for not saying stupid sh*t that could potentially be miscontrued?

BTW that Discharge song sucks.

As another 24 year old, I highly recommend you educate yourself about what the first ammendment in this country entails because what you are saying has nothing to do with the actual right of free speech. Free speech dosn't take into account speech in bad taste or out of common sense...nor should it have to.

I'm perfectly "educated" and i'm well aware of what the first amendment is

But that doesn't mean it's always a good idea to say whatever you want.

Vexer6 wrote:

 Why not just settle for not saying stupid sh*t that could potentially be misconstrued?

Because then there would be no HoM!!

All I mean by the age thing is that my education and the forming of my opinions on what constitutes a free & just society was all pre 'War on Terror' and all of the legislation that came with it. I grew up in a very different world to you, that's all.

Freedom of Speech does not cover threats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions#Threats

Just like you can't walk up to your neighbour and say you're going to murder his wife and baby tomorrow after he goes to work. That's not cool.

Had he made it clear it was a quote from a song, then there'd no problem.

There needs to be a specific target person or group for this to apply. If this guy had committed a criminal offence then he would have been charged.

I'm not even saying that the police were wrong to investigate this, or to speak to him, but locking him up as a terrorist for 8 days without charge is something completely different. The guy's a moron, but that's not criminal.