Roger Martinez

manny wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

I never understood the whoopy doo over VR either, to be honest...

I personally never cared for them and was shocked how popular they must have been in Christian circles, I barely remembered them, and I knew no one had or owned any of their albums.

Me too. I never liked them in the day, I was into the more melodic metal. I have the reissues on CD and while I have to be in the mood to listen to the first 2 albums (and I'll never be in the mood for Destruction Comes, that one is terrible) I just can't get into songs if I can't understand what they are saying. Roger was good for this style but my style was more Michael Sweet singing that Rog.

Quote :

Ratt and Roll book said that Stryper - were banging chicks all over the place -
before coming up with the 'God' - angle - and the black and yellow uniforms -

"STRYPER" were, or just Tim Gaines?

Let's hear the theories James!   

As to my theory ?

It's pretty much been touched on by others in this thread.

VR was a really good thrash band. Roger's voice was as unconventional as the rest of the pool. And the only reason they've been given the label of 'legendary' is because they were one of the first, and the church could not accept that at the time. Roger's ideals changed and he found himself conflicted with those of Christianity, while at the same time dealing with negative business. So he flew, and unfortunately went on a whiny rant of pseudo-satanism as a final offense. I wanted to do the same when I left the church, honestly, but in the end realized it would've been an immature move. Anyway that ended and Roger is just an everyday dude now. And yes, they're stigmatized way more than need be.

Vengeance Rising was a band I had heard of but never actually heard. I kept reading a lot of praise for them ,mainly on this site, and figured I had to check them out. I was not impressed. Can't quite figure out what the big deal was over them.

Like I said, the big deal wasn't their music, which is was just good (not great). It was that they went against the grain to release music that was perceived by their peers as occult-driven. The heavy metal imagery and even the album art was scary stuff for evangelism back in the day.

I really don't think a "big deal" has ever been made about Roger and his antics. I only think that it was a unique situation and an interesting conversation-starter. Roger Martinez still has 100 times more balls than Ted Nugent or Axl Rose in my book.

007 wrote:

Vengeance Rising was a band I had heard of but never actually heard. I kept reading a lot of praise for them ,mainly on this site, and figured I had to check them out. I was not impressed. Can't quite figure out what the big deal was over them.

Depends which album you heard. You'll hear lots of praise for the first two records, and much disdain for the second two when it was basically Roger's solo band.

You also have to remember that hearing their music for the first time in 2014 is quite different than hearing something that extreme and heavy in 1987/1988. Roger's voice was manic at the time. Larry's guitar playing was and still is fantastic. He's a great musician whether it be thrash, rock, blues, or whatever.

ultmetal wrote:

007 wrote:

Vengeance Rising was a band I had heard of but never actually heard. I kept reading a lot of praise for them ,mainly on this site, and figured I had to check them out. I was not impressed. Can't quite figure out what the big deal was over them.

Depends which album you heard. You'll hear lots of praise for the first two records, and much disdain for the second two when it was basically Roger's solo band.

You also have to remember that hearing their music for the first time in 2014 is quite different than hearing something that extreme and heavy in 1987/1988. Roger's voice was manic as the time. Larry's guitar playing was and still is fantastic. He's a great musician whether it be thrash, rock, blues, or whatever.

Exactly.

ultmetal wrote:

007 wrote:

Vengeance Rising was a band I had heard of but never actually heard. I kept reading a lot of praise for them ,mainly on this site, and figured I had to check them out. I was not impressed. Can't quite figure out what the big deal was over them.

Depends which album you heard. You'll hear lots of praise for the first two records, and much disdain for the second two when it was basically Roger's solo band.

You also have to remember that hearing their music for the first time in 2014 is quite different than hearing something that extreme and heavy in 1987/1988. Roger's voice was manic at the time. Larry's guitar playing was and still is fantastic. He's a great musician whether it be thrash, rock, blues, or whatever.

Yeah I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. I'm not even sure which songs I have heard of their's,just various ones through youtube.Well I guess everyone can't all like the same things.

Yeah it was a whole "you had to be there" kinda thing.What those guys were doin at the time was awesome,especially to the Christian market.

Roger was a great speaker,he had the charisma and the intelligence to keep you entertained.

Wow - he's like the other video - a real chatter box !
His message was strong - and on target, for the most part -  
but really, in a concert setting - while passing a joint in the darkness - to your pal -

Great metal holds up years, even decades later.

I've always found Roger's vox to be the weakest part of VR. I really dig their music (especially Human Sacrifice and Once Dead, particularly the former). But Roger's vox grate on my nerves after a while. I actually like his deeper vox he used during parts of Released Upon the Earth better than his other style. However, I jam to VR from time to time because the riffs, especially on their first two, are great.

Temple of Blood wrote:

I'm shocked that people still care so much.  I'll never be able to understand.  

It's not like the guy was Mozart or something and had off-the-charts musical talent.

THIS

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

007 wrote:

Vengeance Rising was a band I had heard of but never actually heard. I kept reading a lot of praise for them ,mainly on this site, and figured I had to check them out. I was not impressed. Can't quite figure out what the big deal was over them.

Depends which album you heard. You'll hear lots of praise for the first two records, and much disdain for the second two when it was basically Roger's solo band.

You also have to remember that hearing their music for the first time in 2014 is quite different than hearing something that extreme and heavy in 1987/1988. Roger's voice was manic as the time. Larry's guitar playing was and still is fantastic. He's a great musician whether it be thrash, rock, blues, or whatever.

Exactly.

X2

I don't need theories, I know why he changed.

Well this happened to many others , The guy from Tourniquet ( Gary Lenaire ) was actually a more well known example. Sometimes it can be "reversed" but when you actually lose your faith in what you previously believed ( like in my case , the bible ) its something not even the scariest picture of hell will get you back in the path. I moved to other religious practices and beliefs, still have faith in god.

BTW VR was a great band, but it wasn´t even close to Deliverance or Tourniquet.

ze_mau wrote:

BTW VR was a great band, but it wasn´t even close to Deliverance or Tourniquet.

Agreed.

I actually think that Jimmy P. Brown is a genius. And I even think that Weapons of Our Warfare could beat Master of Puppets any time ...

ze_mau wrote:

I actually think that Jimmy P. Brown is a genius. And I even think that Weapons of Our Warfare could beat Master of Puppets any time ...

  

Lurideath wrote:

I don't need theories, I know why he changed.  

Tell us Shannon.Didnt you jam with him some?

Its way too damn complicated to get into. Lets just say there is a bit of EVERYTHING into why he left. I still highly respect him and will not put him down in any way.