Metallica - “Ronnie Rising Medley” - Tribute to Ronnie James Dio

It was pretty good.... the thing I find hilarious tho is back the 80's those guys along with the Anthrax guys would always rip on Dio because of the "rainbows and dragons...." now he's one of their big influences.... never ever heard that before...

  

S.D. wrote:

Eh, it's okay I guess, I'll stick with the far superior original versions of these songs.

Come on dude, that goes without saying!!!

manny wrote:

S.D. wrote:

Eh, it's okay I guess, I'll stick with the far superior original versions of these songs.

Come on dude, that goes without saying!!!

Believe me, I could have said a lot worse. Give me credit for showing restraint at such an easy target as Metallica.   

What do you guys think of this conversation:

https://www.facebook.com/john.boden.33/posts/10151930032301384?comment_id=28826673&offset=0&total_comments=35

Specifically at the start of this comment:

Quote :

KEA was almost all Mustaine. RTL Mustaine/Burton... Master, Justice Burton. After that Bob Rock, James and Lars, that is why their music changed so much...songwriting. Burton/Mustaine have been gone and so has Metallica. With Mustaine they had the speed metal sound ie KEA/RTL(Megadeth)..Burton changed things on Master and Justice, still fast but more melodic...after him....nothing.

Eyesore wrote:

What do you guys think of this conversation:

https://www.facebook.com/john.boden.33/posts/10151930032301384?comment_id=28826673&offset=0&total_comments=35

Specifically at the start of this comment:

Quote :

KEA was almost all Mustaine. RTL Mustaine/Burton... Master, Justice Burton. After that Bob Rock, James and Lars, that is why their music changed so much...songwriting. Burton/Mustaine have been gone and so has Metallica. With Mustaine they had the speed metal sound ie KEA/RTL(Megadeth)..Burton changed things on Master and Justice, still fast but more melodic...after him....nothing.

I think that it's two people talking about stuff they don't really have the answers to. Dave Mustaine's mark is there for all to hear on the first record and Cliff was brilliant and I'e heard a few people say that he was the real leader of the band (notably photographer Ross Halfin who spent a lot of time with the band in the early days) and if truth be told, I don't think that they ever really recovered from the accident.

But I just think that James & Lars have made themselves easy targets these days and the fact remains that they became the best selling metal band of all time long after both were gone.

No one knows what Cliff would have been influenced by, or how it would have effected his writing down the road had he not died. He might have gotten into Indie or something... no one knows. He may also have wanted the large audience that comes with radio rock by the time the self titled album came out. You can't say for sure he wouldn't have.

Dave has lost every bit as much as James & Lars in the songwriting dept. He has also been chasing the radio rock dream for as long as Metallica. No matter what his fanboys would have you believe.

I think that little snippet of conversation is just an opinion and I also think it gives a little too much credit solely to Mustaine and Burton.  

Personally I think Cliff was quite important to the group, especially after Dave left.  James even said in an early interview that Cliff was the guy that knew music theory, knew arranging.  I think James and Lars submitted a lot of ideas that Cliff helped shape into cohesive songs.  Compare the flow of the writing on Ride and Master with Justice.  There is nothing really wrong with Justice, but some of the arranging could be tighter and I think if Cliff had still been around to smooth out the arrangements it would have been a better record.  

Then Bob Rock took over arranging duties for the next decade.  

Then when Metallica starts basically producing themselves again you end up with Death Magnetic, an album that could have seriously used someone around to polish the arrangements.  The new song sounds like a continuation of that.  

That of course is just my personal theory.

back in the killem all/ride the lightning days I played the hell out of this band...now I cant stand to listen to anything they do...I guess I just got overly sick of this band (I feel the same way about Guns n Roses)...not a fan of the new single...

Tribute albums can be fun but it depends who is on them and what label is releasing it. I'm interested in checking this album out and this is a good medley, I think.

Eyesore wrote:

What do you guys think of this conversation:

https://www.facebook.com/john.boden.33/posts/10151930032301384?comment_id=28826673&offset=0&total_comments=35

Specifically at the start of this comment:

Quote :

KEA was almost all Mustaine. RTL Mustaine/Burton... Master, Justice Burton. After that Bob Rock, James and Lars, that is why their music changed so much...songwriting. Burton/Mustaine have been gone and so has Metallica. With Mustaine they had the speed metal sound ie KEA/RTL(Megadeth)..Burton changed things on Master and Justice, still fast but more melodic...after him....nothing.

The first part about KEA is almost correct, the rest is a bunch of bullshit

I'm not really a fan of Metallica, But this was damn good.   

Boris2008 wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

What do you guys think of this conversation:

https://www.facebook.com/john.boden.33/posts/10151930032301384?comment_id=28826673&offset=0&total_comments=35

Specifically at the start of this comment:

Quote :

KEA was almost all Mustaine. RTL Mustaine/Burton... Master, Justice Burton. After that Bob Rock, James and Lars, that is why their music changed so much...songwriting. Burton/Mustaine have been gone and so has Metallica. With Mustaine they had the speed metal sound ie KEA/RTL(Megadeth)..Burton changed things on Master and Justice, still fast but more melodic...after him....nothing.

I think that it's two people talking about stuff they don't really have the answers to. Dave Mustaine's mark is there for all to hear on the first record and Cliff was brilliant and I'e heard a few people say that he was the real leader of the band (notably photographer Ross Halfin who spent a lot of time with the band in the early days) and if truth be told, I don't think that they ever really recovered from the accident.

But I just think that James & Lars have made themselves easy targets these days and the fact remains that they became the best selling metal band of all time long after both were gone.

I am one of those guys.

I shared that link because I don't understand why so many people try to discredit what James and Lars have done concerning Metallica. Just look at what that guy is saying. The early stuff was all Mustaine and Burton, despite the fact that Mustaine only had a hand in crafting five Metallica songs. And then he basically says that "For Whom the Bell Tolls" is what broke the band, and that should be attributed to Burton.

Now, I wasn't even into music yet when Ride the Lightning came out, so maybe that song did break the band, but it's the first time I've ever heard such a claim. Still, to me, it just seems like another way to discredit James and Lars. Mustaine and Burton made them great, the band died with Burton, etc. I mean, there are people out there who really think the drums for And Justice for All were recorded one at a time. ONE drum at a time! What kind of nonsense is that? Others insist it's not even Lars playing, while others claim his playing was so bad they had to splice all kinds of tape together to get a serviceable "take." This, despite the fact that he played that stuff live and demos exist where he plays it all like that. Did they splice tape and record one drum at a time for demos? That would be insane! Yet people believe this stuff, all because they're angry and James and Lars and blame them for "ruining" the band.

The funniest thing is, anyone who knew anything about Burton knows that he was the most open-minded when it came to music. His tastes were broad, and given how most people begin evolving mentally from their mid-20s onward, I have no doubt he would not have been exclusively playing metal for much longer.

Either way, I just find it weird that so many people refuse to give James and Lars the credit they deserve. Metallica doesn't exist, even the Metallica from the 80s, doesn't exist without these two.

I never had a problem with James and Lars. In fact, I was shocked upon realizing--on this board of all places--that there are people who actually think that Lars is a hack drummer. I just don't see how this opinion is possible.

corplhicks wrote:

I never had a problem with James and Lars. In fact, I was shocked upon realizing--on this board of all places--that there are people who actually think that Lars is a hack drummer. I just don't see how this opinion is possible.

Well, it's a very valid opinion now. His drumming is utterly basic and lifeless now.

Eyesore wrote:

What do you guys think of this conversation:

https://www.facebook.com/john.boden.33/posts/10151930032301384?comment_id=28826673&offset=0&total_comments=35

Specifically at the start of this comment:

Quote :

KEA was almost all Mustaine. RTL Mustaine/Burton... Master, Justice Burton. After that Bob Rock, James and Lars, that is why their music changed so much...songwriting. Burton/Mustaine have been gone and so has Metallica. With Mustaine they had the speed metal sound ie KEA/RTL(Megadeth)..Burton changed things on Master and Justice, still fast but more melodic...after him....nothing.

Then there is this quote from your discussion on Facebook to wrap things up:

First of all it was For Whom The Bell Tolls everyone knows that. Two James and Lars have forever stole credit for everything in Metallica..Mustaine "contributing" on five songs, yeah right, sort of like "Four Horseman." And "One" was Burtons masterpiece he never lived to see...it was written while he was alive on Master tour in '86.. Do not blasphemy his legacy by giving "One" credits to Lars and James. Recommend the Burton biography to read may clarify things. Guess I agree to disagree.

There was a time in my life where Metallica consumed my life. I've spent many a dollars on Metallica related stuff [Bootlegs (C.D's/Videos), Posters, C.D singles, books] and I have EVERY live recording of the band from 84-86 that is known to be out there. Having stated that Ken, this guy is absolutely full of shit. IF Mustaine did indeed write so much more than what James and Lars stated, why hasn't Mustaine said anything in regards to this? The only two songs that Mustaine has questioned, as it relates to royalties and the like are, "Leper Messiah", which according to Dave in the past was a reworked song entitled "The Hills Ran Red" and Dave's latest bio, he claimed that James never was the sole writer on "Motorbreath". He claimed that Hugh Tanner of Leather Charm (James 1st band), should have received credit, as he reportedly collaborated on the song. It's interesting to note that Hugh Tanner did come up and play this with Metallica, during their 30th Anniversary shows in December 2011.


Now onto the Cliff stuff. This is pure conjecture, as it pertains to the revisionist history that this dope wants to proclaim as truth, in regards to Cliff, and how James and Lars stole all his riffs, which were subsequently used on "...And Justice For All". It's a baseless claim. "One" was NOT written during the Master of Puppets years, as things didn't really get going with the writing process until 1987. "To Live Is To Die" for all intents and purposes was the last vestiges of a great musician. It's hard for people to accept this, because they don't like the path Metallica took after "...And Justice For All". Had Metallica never ventured far from the music they began playing, I don't even think this would be a point of contention. Unfortunately, it gives the uninformed a soap box to rant from, and then have others believe what they "believe" to be truth.

Furthermore, the Burton bio by Joel Mclver doesn't clear up a thing, like this guy suggests, as it is easily one of the most poorly written books out there about Cliff or Metallica. It's basically a rehash of everything we already knew (about Cliff), with a few interesting quotes from Cliff's bass instructor Steve Doherty. Joel Mclver barely scratched the surface when it came to Cliff's Castro Valley days, and those friends he went to high school with, namely Jim Martin (Faith No More), Mike Bordin (Faith No More) and his other high school chums. The worst was how Joel Mclver didn't have one direct quote from Cliff's fiance Corinne Lynn.


If you're going to do someone justice in telling their story, then it's important to tackle the subjects that have not been talked about or not covered at great length. McIver's book was like I stated earlier, a rehash and it lacked the effusive qualities that a bio should have regarding someone passing at the very tender age of twenty four. There was certainly enough time since Cliff's passing, where deeper questions could have been asked. Ray Burton loves talking about his son, and his friends love talking about him, and Corinne Lynn should have been a priority. If you can't go to great lengths to find this stuff out, then don't write the damn book!

S.D. wrote:

I think that little snippet of conversation is just an opinion and I also think it gives a little too much credit solely to Mustaine and Burton.  

Personally I think Cliff was quite important to the group, especially after Dave left.  James even said in an early interview that Cliff was the guy that knew music theory, knew arranging.  I think James and Lars submitted a lot of ideas that Cliff helped shape into cohesive songs.  Compare the flow of the writing on Ride and Master with Justice.  There is nothing really wrong with Justice, but some of the arranging could be tighter and I think if Cliff had still been around to smooth out the arrangements it would have been a better record.  

Then Bob Rock took over arranging duties for the next decade.  

Then when Metallica starts basically producing themselves again you end up with Death Magnetic, an album that could have seriously used someone around to polish the arrangements.  The new song sounds like a continuation of that.  

That of course is just my personal theory.

*This*

Cliff from a writing standpoint was clearly more influential on "Ride The Lightning" (6 credits) compared to that of "Master of Puppets" (3 credits), BUT his influence was even more evident when it came to arranging songs. Having said that, I know that during the "Master of Puppets" recording sessions (Sept 1st -Dec 27th 1985), Cliff took a considerable leave from the band, heading back to the states, due to the fact that he hated the dark depressing gloomy weather of Copenhagen, Denmark. I want to say that he was not there during that last month of the sessions, if my memory serves me correctly?

Cliff Burton in many ways reminded me of Randy Rhoads from a personality standpoint and musical interests, as they both had this love for classical music. It was well known that Randy Rhoads most likely would have left Ozzy and ventured into something completely different. He wanted to pursue a degree in classical guitar at a university. In the late 90's or 2000, it was revealed in a "So What" article (Metallica fan club magazine) that there was speculation that Cliff might have followed that same path that Randy took. Cliff's musical interests were so very different from the rest of the guys early on, that I think he might have felt a little hamstrung with the limitations of thrash music and what one might be able to incorporate? It was stated by those closest to Cliff that he saw life beyond Metallica. I think this article shocked some fans, but since it never came to fruition, it's tough to say that this would have definitely happened.

I think what has been the toughest pill for most die hard Metallica fans to swallow is, Cliff would have been the first guy on board for the drastic change in sound that the band ventured into, starting with that of the s/t album and beyond. I remember when Metallica got a ton of shit for doing the S&M thing with Michael Kamen and the San Francisco symphony orchestra, and yet the first thing I thought of was how proud Cliff would have been to do something like this. This was further illustrated by the band in this clip for the behind the scenes DVD of the S&M show. Go to the 4:59 mark and watch until the 6:43 mark, as Cliff's name comes up about what his feelings most likely would have been. I have no reason to doubt what Lars is stating as it pertained to what Cliff would have felt about the merging of heavy metal music and an orchestra. It also talked about the dynamic which Cliff brought to the band.

Well, this sounds much better than that 'Loads of Summer' turd. I'm quite looking forward to this full album. I do like me a good tribute album. Even that Tenacious D track is passable.