How important is track order to you?

Never thought of it before. I burn the CD to wav and from there they either get added to iTunes and/or ssd/flash depending on purpose. Wav files don't carry any info with them so I set the metadata. In the case of wasp I just deleted the song since I didn't like it to begin with. In most cases I follow the listing on the CD. I'm usually on a band trip, so I cycle through their albums (hence the reason for flash drives). I carry anywhere from 5 to 10 flash drives dedicated to a band, which is easier while driving. I travel a lot and most rentals handle USB, and I don't feel so bad when I go off and leave it in the car.

journeyman wrote:

Never thought of it before. I burn the CD to wav and from there they either get added to iTunes and/or ssd/flash depending on purpose. Wav files don't carry any info with them so I set the metadata. In the case of wasp I just deleted the song since I didn't like it to begin with. In most cases I follow the listing on the CD. I'm usually on a band trip, so I cycle through their albums (hence the reason for flash drives). I carry anywhere from 5 to 10 flash drives dedicated to a band, which is easier while driving. I travel a lot and most rentals handle USB, and I don't feel so bad when I go off and leave it in the car.

I'm just curious why wav instead of mp3 or AAC? Wav's are huge files that take up some serious space.

They sound better and flac usually needs an encoder.

Track order on an album is a lost art. Many bands will screw up their track order and front or back load an album with the good tracks, which means you either only listen to the first couple of tracks and that's it, or you never get to the good material if the album is back loaded. I blame the CD which totally did away with the concept of album sides and changed the track order dynamic. Pre-cd albums usually have a much better flow to them. So yes, track order matters very much to the enjoyment of an album.

It depends on the album.

journeyman wrote:

They sound better and flac usually needs an encoder.

Ahhhh, you go for quality over quantity. Good man.

Witchfinder wrote:

Track order on an album is a lost art. Many bands will screw up their track order and front or back load an album with the good tracks, which means you either only listen to the first couple of tracks and that's it, or you never get to the good material if the album is back loaded. I blame the CD which totally did away with the concept of album sides and changed the track order dynamic. Pre-cd albums usually have a much better flow to them. So yes, track order matters very much to the enjoyment of an album.

Spot-on. I really miss having a side 1 and a side 2.

Hadley wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

How about when a ballad comes too early? One example is Iced Earth, Something Wicked. Technically it's not a ballad, but Melancholy being the second track after such a pummeling starter is just too abrupt a change early on. Great song, and I understand it being a concept album may vindicate this choice, but I would have preferred it later it on.

Stryper did this too, can't remember if it was Devil or Yellow Black. Can't remember the song. Stryper was a looooong time ago for me. Except for Against the Law but that's beside the point.

The second track on yellow and black attack is "From Wrong to Right" which isnt a ballad but it is significantly lighter than "Loud N Clear".

I always thought that l'n'c and from wrong to right was a great one two punch to kick off YABA. At least on the original mix (that I have thx to cliffy) from Erin to right crunches along nicely. I haven't listened to the neutered 86 mix in a long time though, so it might come off less rockin there.

And I don't think I'll ever outgrow stryper. It's not something I listen too all the time but stryper will always have a special place in my cd collection. They have aged well too (as performers the records are as 80's as it gets ), and sound as vital and energetic today as they ever have. In fact I think they sound better now than in there heyday, even if the new material isn't as strong as before.

DevZor wrote:

Hadley wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

How about when a ballad comes too early? One example is Iced Earth, Something Wicked. Technically it's not a ballad, but Melancholy being the second track after such a pummeling starter is just too abrupt a change early on. Great song, and I understand it being a concept album may vindicate this choice, but I would have preferred it later it on.

Stryper did this too, can't remember if it was Devil or Yellow Black. Can't remember the song. Stryper was a looooong time ago for me. Except for Against the Law but that's beside the point.

The second track on yellow and black attack is "From Wrong to Right" which isnt a ballad but it is significantly lighter than "Loud N Clear".

I always thought that l'n'c and from wrong to right was a great one two punch to kick off YABA. At least on the original mix (that I have thx to cliffy) from Erin to right crunches along nicely. I haven't listened to the neutered 86 mix in a long time though, so it might come off less rockin there.

And I don't think I'll ever outgrow stryper. It's not something I listen too all the time but stryper will always have a special place in my cd collection. They have aged well too (as performers the records are as 80's as it gets ), and sound as vital and energetic today as they ever have. In fact I think they sound better now than in there heyday, even if the new material isn't as strong as before.

Okay, I'm all mixed up and had to go listen to track samples. I'm thinking of Devil, the track "Calling on You." Just a strange contrast to To Hell with the Devil.

I totally understand Stryper fans, but it was just bad timing for me to be introduced to them. At the time, my favorite album was Taking Over (Overkill). My mom was trying to get me on a Christian music kick, and she got all these Stryper tapes from an old church friend (he was praying for me). So you can imagine this angry fifteen-year-old going from Overkill to Stryper...forget it. I thought they were the pussiest band around until I found Against the Law on tape. For the record, Soldiers Under Command was their best glam-era CD.

journeyman wrote:

They sound better and flac usually needs an encoder.

If you already use iTunes then I recommend going with Apple Lossless (Alac), same sound quality as .wav, much smaller and can handle metadata.

corplhicks wrote:

DevZor wrote:

Hadley wrote:

corplhicks wrote:

How about when a ballad comes too early? One example is Iced Earth, Something Wicked. Technically it's not a ballad, but Melancholy being the second track after such a pummeling starter is just too abrupt a change early on. Great song, and I understand it being a concept album may vindicate this choice, but I would have preferred it later it on.

Stryper did this too, can't remember if it was Devil or Yellow Black. Can't remember the song. Stryper was a looooong time ago for me. Except for Against the Law but that's beside the point.

The second track on yellow and black attack is "From Wrong to Right" which isnt a ballad but it is significantly lighter than "Loud N Clear".

I always thought that l'n'c and from wrong to right was a great one two punch to kick off YABA. At least on the original mix (that I have thx to cliffy) from Erin to right crunches along nicely. I haven't listened to the neutered 86 mix in a long time though, so it might come off less rockin there.

And I don't think I'll ever outgrow stryper. It's not something I listen too all the time but stryper will always have a special place in my cd collection. They have aged well too (as performers the records are as 80's as it gets ), and sound as vital and energetic today as they ever have. In fact I think they sound better now than in there heyday, even if the new material isn't as strong as before.

Okay, I'm all mixed up and had to go listen to track samples. I'm thinking of Devil, the track "Calling on You." Just a strange contrast to To Hell with the Devil.

I totally understand Stryper fans, but it was just bad timing for me to be introduced to them. At the time, my favorite album was Taking Over (Overkill). My mom was trying to get me on a Christian music kick, and she got all these Stryper tapes from an old church friend (he was praying for me). So you can imagine this angry fifteen-year-old going from Overkill to Stryper...forget it. I thought they were the pussiest band around until I found Against the Law on tape. For the record, Soldiers Under Command was their best glam-era CD.

I've always found both soldiers and against the law superior to to hell with the devil. In fact, I've probably listened to in God we trust more than to hell with the devil.

Hell with the Devil was a weird, weird platter. production and lyrically it was just cheap to me. I remember thinking, "To Hell with the Devil? F*ck you! Deny the Cross (deny the crawwwws)!!!!!" Total anarchy blah blah.

Also, clean singers with minimal rasp or edge to their voice have never been my pint of stout.

Lol, I understand. Moms are sweet but clueless aren't they. I always laugh when I hear abou people trying to turn metalheads who are into the super heavy stuff onto Christian music with stryper. Apples to super heavy, hella aggressive oranges people!!!

DevZor wrote:

Lol, I understand. Moms are sweet but clueless aren't they. I always laugh when I hear abou people trying to turn metalheads who are into the super heavy stuff onto Christian music with stryper. Apples to super heavy, hella aggressive oranges people!!!

Yeah it was around then I started getting into the more extreme genres. Thanks to mum.

All this talk of stryper got me to pull out and spin my soldiers lp. To bring things back on topic, that album pretty much has the quintessential lp track list going on. Metallic 1-2 punch, then good mid pace song, a ballad, then a mean (for stryper lol) rocker to finish the side. Good stuff, I love the guitar sound on this album. Though I think micheal sounds better on these songs now that he sings in a slightly lower register.

Witchfinder wrote:

Track order on an album is a lost art. Many bands will screw up their track order and front or back load an album with the good tracks, which means you either only listen to the first couple of tracks and that's it, or you never get to the good material if the album is back loaded. I blame the CD which totally did away with the concept of album sides and changed the track order dynamic. Pre-cd albums usually have a much better flow to them. So yes, track order matters very much to the enjoyment of an album.

I agree with this as well.

Sequencing is very important, when done properly it can take a collection of songs and merge them together into a unified artistic whole.

Sequencing. That's the word we should have been using.

Seeing as how I usually start out with a bands Greatest Hits, before diving in further, the chronological is almost a must for me. On the plus side, you get to hear how a band changes their sound and evolves, which I love. The history and what went in to the albums at the time they were written is pretty cool back info.

jettafiend wrote:

Seeing as how I usually start out with a bands Greatest Hits, before diving in further, the chronological is almost a must for me. On the plus side, you get to hear how a band changes their sound and evolves, which I love. The history and what went in to the albums at the time they were written is pretty cool back info.

+1. I remember the first time I did that with Priest. It was cool, hearing all the gradual nuances take shape and the lead work evolving. Also it made Screaming for Vengeance sound as heavy as a Death album.

Fat Freddy wrote:

unless an album is reissued or re-released with the tracks in a different order than I'm "used" to.

Just thought of another example of this: when Snapper Music remastered the first W.A.S.P. album years back, they stuck "Animal (F**k Like A Beast)" at the top of the running order so that it's now the first song on the album.

I understand that "Animal" was originally intended to be the album's leadoff track till the record label demanded it be cut from the record altogether...so in that regard, I guess it does "belong" there...but dammit, I've been hearing "I Wanna Be Somebody" in the lead-off spot on that album for 20+ years, so when I put that remastered CD on and it starts off with "Animal," it just doesn't sound "right" to me.

Does anyone else ever have this experience or am I just too O.C.D. for my own good?

Also, when it comes to track order, I rarely listen to the bonus tracks on the end of a reissue at the same time I listen to the album. I prefer to stop the album where it originally stopped.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

unless an album is reissued or re-released with the tracks in a different order than I'm "used" to.

Just thought of another example of this: when Snapper Music remastered the first W.A.S.P. album years back, they stuck "Animal (F**k Like A Beast)" at the top of the running order so that it's now the first song on the album.

I understand that "Animal" was originally intended to be the album's leadoff track till the record label demanded it be cut from the record altogether...so in that regard, I guess it does "belong" there...but dammit, I've been hearing "I Wanna Be Somebody" in the lead-off spot on that album for 20+ years, so when I put that remastered CD on and it starts off with "Animal," it just doesn't sound "right" to me.

Does anyone else ever have this experience or am I just too O.C.D. for my own good?

Nope, you are not alone. I'm trying to remember a cassette I had that had all the tracks in the wrong order. Drove me batty and I threw it away.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

unless an album is reissued or re-released with the tracks in a different order than I'm "used" to.

Just thought of another example of this: when Snapper Music remastered the first W.A.S.P. album years back, they stuck "Animal (F**k Like A Beast)" at the top of the running order so that it's now the first song on the album.

I understand that "Animal" was originally intended to be the album's leadoff track till the record label demanded it be cut from the record altogether...so in that regard, I guess it does "belong" there...but dammit, I've been hearing "I Wanna Be Somebody" in the lead-off spot on that album for 20+ years, so when I put that remastered CD on and it starts off with "Animal," it just doesn't sound "right" to me.

Does anyone else ever have this experience or am I just too O.C.D. for my own good?

Nah, it's not supposed to be the lead off track!!!!

The cassette tape of Sanctuary's Refuge Denied has Die For My Sins as the second track. I played the shit out of that tape only to upgrade to CD and see that the second track is Termination Force.

Fat Freddy wrote:

Fat Freddy wrote:

unless an album is reissued or re-released with the tracks in a different order than I'm "used" to.

Just thought of another example of this: when Snapper Music remastered the first W.A.S.P. album years back, they stuck "Animal (F**k Like A Beast)" at the top of the running order so that it's now the first song on the album.

I understand that "Animal" was originally intended to be the album's leadoff track till the record label demanded it be cut from the record altogether...so in that regard, I guess it does "belong" there...but dammit, I've been hearing "I Wanna Be Somebody" in the lead-off spot on that album for 20+ years, so when I put that remastered CD on and it starts off with "Animal," it just doesn't sound "right" to me.

Does anyone else ever have this experience or am I just too O.C.D. for my own good?

See my previous contribution a few posts above. Exact same issue.

metalheaded wrote:

See my previous contribution a few posts above. Exact same issue.

D'oh! Totally missed your post about the W.A.S.P. album... I guess great minds think alike... Haha