Suffocation...Thoughts on this video...

Vexer6 wrote:

My "gut" told me that as long as I was actually paying for the songs, it was legal and not at all the same thing as Kazaa and the like, plenty of other people seem to agree with me on that. Given that the site has been around since 2007, you'd think that if they were illegal, then they would've been shut down by now.

OK. I have a 2 facepalm limit. There's no point in my continuing.

I think a good rule of thumb is if the site in question isn't specifically endorsed by a band or label (ie "go 'here' to get our music"), it's probably not legit.

And if they're still up and running it's because they haven't been caught yet. If the RIAA or government or whomever wants to shut it down, they gotta do it all legal-like and get probable causes and evidence and stuff like that. That takes time. Especially if the site in question isn't in this country (meaning the US of course).

^^ Wut MG sez, right there.

One of our members here -- Stormspell -- runs a small indie metal label and he can tell ya some stories about finding his releases on those "MP3s for ten cents apiece" web sites ... without his permission, of course.

But since sites like those are generally located in Russia or someplace similarly far away from the authority of the RIAA, there isn't much he can do about it.

The point of course is: if a "deal" seems too good to be true, it usually is.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I think a good rule of thumb is if the site in question isn't specifically endorsed by a band or label (ie "go 'here' to get our music"), it's probably not legit.

And if they're still up and running it's because they haven't been caught yet. If the RIAA or government or whomever wants to shut it down, they gotta do it all legal-like and get probable causes and evidence and stuff like that. That takes time. Especially if the site in question isn't in this country (meaning the US of course).

The RIAA aren't nearly as much as against piracy as they say they are:http://gizmodo.com/5869321/dear-recording-industry-pay-9-million-for-pirating-tv-shows-or-shut-up

Vexer6 wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

I think a good rule of thumb is if the site in question isn't specifically endorsed by a band or label (ie "go 'here' to get our music"), it's probably not legit.

And if they're still up and running it's because they haven't been caught yet. If the RIAA or government or whomever wants to shut it down, they gotta do it all legal-like and get probable causes and evidence and stuff like that. That takes time. Especially if the site in question isn't in this country (meaning the US of course).

The RIAA aren't nearly as much as against piracy as they say they are:http://gizmodo.com/5869321/dear-recording-industry-pay-9-million-for-pirating-tv-shows-or-shut-up

Surely you're familair with the phase "Do as I say, not as I do".

Buying .mp3s from an illegal online site is the same as buying stolen stereo speakers from the back of a van somewhere. Just because you pay the dude $20 doesn't make the sale any more legal.

If you wanna buy music online use a reputable retailer like Amazon, iTunes, Emusic, etc. The artist receives royalties from those sites. Or purchase the music directly from the artist's website if that option is available.

Also, just because a band may no longer be active or the original artist might have passed away is NOT justification for stealing their music. If an artist dies their royalties do not stop, they are paid to their existing family members who just might need the income.

S.D. wrote:

Buying .mp3s from an illegal online site is the same as buying stolen stereo speakers from the back of a van somewhere. Just because you pay the dude $20 doesn't make the sale any more legal.

If you wanna buy music online use a reputable retailer like Amazon, iTunes, Emusic, etc. The artist receives royalties from those sites. Or purchase the music directly from the artist's website if that option is available.

Also, just because a band may no longer be active or the original artist might have passed away is NOT justification for stealing their music. If an artist dies their royalties do not stop, they are paid to their existing family members who just might need the income.

Normally I do try to find albums on iTunes, Emusic or Amazon before going the other route, and there are some bands whose albums are only availible as pricey imports, like 220 Volt.

If Mp3va really is "illegal", then I guess i'll just have to stick to listening to songs from pricey albums on Youtube then won't I?

Vexer6 wrote:

Normally I do try to find albums on iTunes, Emusic or Amazon before going the other route, and there are some bands whose albums are only availible as pricey imports, like 220 Volt.

Here is an idea and a nice M.O (modus operandi)

Say that 220 Volt costs 35 dollars for a (legal)download or purchase of tangible product. You only have a budget of 10 bucks for music a week.
You then "SAVE" your 10 bucks a week for a month and buy the 220 volt album. Kinda sucks that you have to wait and it kinda sucks that you can't download it for FREE and use the money to buy more music. That is how most responsible folks purchase anything. I didn't walk into Walmart and push a lawn mower out of the Garden Shop cause I didn't either A)wanna spend the high cost they were asking for it or B)wait a few weeks to save my money cause I didn't have enough to buy it that particular day.

If you "feel" that no music is worth paying what you think is too much. Maybe you really don't need it that bad. I see alot of stuff online that people are asking insane prices for and I just laugh, it is just an album and if I really, really need to hear it that bad.....I'll save for it. If not, oh well.

James B. wrote:

Vexer6 wrote:

Normally I do try to find albums on iTunes, Emusic or Amazon before going the other route, and there are some bands whose albums are only availible as pricey imports, like 220 Volt.

Here is an idea and a nice M.O (modus operandi)

Say that 220 Volt costs 35 dollars for a (legal)download or purchase of tangible product. You only have a budget of 10 bucks for music a week.
You then "SAVE" your 10 bucks a week for a month and buy the 220 volt album. Kinda sucks that you have to wait and it kinda sucks that you can't download it for FREE and use the money to buy more music. That is how most responsible folks purchase anything. I didn't walk into Walmart and push a lawn mower out of the Garden Shop cause I didn't either A)wanna spend the high cost they were asking for it or B)wait a few weeks to save my money cause I didn't have enough to buy it that particular day.

If you "feel" that no music is worth paying what you think is too much. Maybe you really don't need it that bad. I see alot of stuff online that people are asking insane prices for and I just laugh, it is just an album and if I really, really need to hear it that bad.....I'll save for it. If not, oh well.

The only things I really save for are video games.

You're right, I don't "have" to get 220 Volt CDs, but that dosen't mean I should feel guilty about listening to their music on Youtube either.

Listening to bands on Youtube does not make one "irresponsible"

Quote :

Listening to bands on Youtube does not make one "irresponsible"

My attachment of responsible to somebody's habits(s) was in regards to saving money to purchase something, nothing else.

I wouldn't feel guilty about listening to music on YouTube. Bands and record companies put content on that site so folks can listen to it.

dude .. this is 3 pages long?

James B. wrote:

Quote :

Listening to bands on Youtube does not make one "irresponsible"

My attachment of responsible to somebody's habits(s) was in regards to saving money to purchase something, nothing else.

I wouldn't feel guilty about listening to music on YouTube. Bands and record companies put content on that site so folks can listen to it.

Ah, OK then.

Personally I agree with him and can say that all the music I have, I have purchased in some way or another. That's just my choice. I understand all the arguments and viewpoints on this.

For me, I guess it just boils down to my "moral compass" and I just feel that it is wrong to illegally download music. Maybe it just from close to 40 years of loving a style of music that I always had to buy to hear. It was never on the radio and there was no internet way back. I guess I just feel as though I am supporting the people/bands that created music that means a lot to me when I actually buy it.

Orion Crystal Ice wrote:

dude .. this is 3 pages long?

In my defense (anyways), I had some teeth pulled this morning and it put me on grumpy ol dude status.

The meds and other comglomerations stuck in the gums made it all to easy to run off at the mouth.

My unsigned band's first album was sold on those Russian mp3 sites. Needless to say, they didn't ask my permission.

BTW, Copyright infringement on YouTube is still copyright infringement.

I thought the video was cool. It was simple and made a good point.

For me, I prefer owning the physical copy. I do buy a lot of used CDs and records, which means that the artists are not receiving money, but I also buy new CDs and vinyl too.

As for downloading, I have no desire. I've downloaded a song here and there, usually when some band is offering a new song from their album on their website or something. I can't ever remember downloading an entire album. Once I downloaded an entire album on iTunes because someone gave me an iTunes gift card. Sad thing is, I still ended up going out and buying the CD of that album because I didn't feel I really owned it until I purchased the CD. I want to own a piece of the band's history and own something tangible.

it's just a moral thing for me. I believe it's stealing, so I don't bother with it.

To completely contradict myself, I use to make mix tapes of metal bands all the time to send to friends. It was my way of 'spreading the word' about those bands and the music. Obviously it was before the internet, so it was a good way to get others familiar with bands. However, I also expected that those people I sent the tapes to, if they liked a band, would go out and buy the tape, CD, record or whatever. I know when others made mix tapes for me, that's exactly what I did. I distinctly remember discovering Hammerfall that very way. The song "Dragon Lies Bleeding" was on a mix tape someone made me so I rushed out to the CD store and picked up their Glory to the Brave CD.

To coincide with Scott's "sharing" via sending friend's mixtapes, we used to trade demo tapes back in the day. I have "some" left that either the crappy labels are gone or the writing has faded. It is kinda fun trying to figure out who the heck it is/was. Others just don't play well enough anymore, but they stay in the box. One of many things that ain't worth much more than a walk down memory lane. (too some of us....priceless)

Quote :

To completely contradict myself, I use to make mix tapes of metal bands all the time to send to friends. It was my way of 'spreading the word' about those bands and the music. Obviously it was before the internet, so it was a good way to get others familiar with bands. However, I also expected that those people I sent the tapes to, if they liked a band, would go out and buy the tape, CD, record or whatever.

That's exactly what blog-download pages say.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

To completely contradict myself, I use to make mix tapes of metal bands all the time to send to friends. It was my way of 'spreading the word' about those bands and the music. Obviously it was before the internet, so it was a good way to get others familiar with bands. However, I also expected that those people I sent the tapes to, if they liked a band, would go out and buy the tape, CD, record or whatever.

That's exactly what blog-download pages say.

Oh I know, that's why I said I was going to contradict myself. The difference is, it was one song from the album, not the whole album. As well, it was one tape of that one song. File sharing can be thousands and thousands of copies of the file shared.

Temple of Blood wrote:

My unsigned band's first album was sold on those Russian mp3 sites. Needless to say, they didn't ask my permission.

BTW, Copyright infringement on YouTube is still copyright infringement.

Even if someone claims "Fair Use"?

ultmetal wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Quote :

To completely contradict myself, I use to make mix tapes of metal bands all the time to send to friends. It was my way of 'spreading the word' about those bands and the music. Obviously it was before the internet, so it was a good way to get others familiar with bands. However, I also expected that those people I sent the tapes to, if they liked a band, would go out and buy the tape, CD, record or whatever.

That's exactly what blog-download pages say.

Oh I know, that's why I said I was going to contradict myself. The difference is, it was one song from the album, not the whole album. As well, it was one tape of that one song. File sharing can be thousands and thousands of copies of the file shared.

Scale.

ultmetal wrote:

I thought the video was cool. It was simple and made a good point.

For me, I prefer owning the physical copy. I do buy a lot of used CDs and records, which means that the artists are not receiving money, but I also buy new CDs and vinyl too.

As for downloading, I have no desire. I've downloaded a song here and there, usually when some band is offering a new song from their album on their website or something. I can't ever remember downloading an entire album. Once I downloaded an entire album on iTunes because someone gave me an iTunes gift card. Sad thing is, I still ended up going out and buying the CD of that album because I didn't feel I really owned it until I purchased the CD. I want to own a piece of the band's history and own something tangible.

it's just a moral thing for me. I believe it's stealing, so I don't bother with it.

To completely contradict myself, I use to make mix tapes of metal bands all the time to send to friends. It was my way of 'spreading the word' about those bands and the music. Obviously it was before the internet, so it was a good way to get others familiar with bands. However, I also expected that those people I sent the tapes to, if they liked a band, would go out and buy the tape, CD, record or whatever. I know when others made mix tapes for me, that's exactly what I did. I distinctly remember discovering Hammerfall that very way. The song "Dragon Lies Bleeding" was on a mix tape someone made me so I rushed out to the CD store and picked up their Glory to the Brave CD.

Totally agree!

However I have downloaded a full album of a Australian Thrash Metal band Slaughter Lord because I have looked everywhere for the CD with no luck and when I did find it. They were selling for like 60 dollars.


But overall I like to buy CD'S and not downloading because I feel I don't own the album until I have it in my hands!

choosemetal wrote:

However I have downloaded a full album of a Australian Thrash Metal band Slaughter Lord because I have looked everywhere for the CD with no luck and when I did find it. They were selling for like 60 dollars.


!

It's not that hard to save your cash and buy it when ya save enough, sheesh ! Wonder if the guys in Slaughter Lord were able to "download" studio time for free instead of saving up for it ? Afterall studio time is expensive too.

It seems that 50 or 60 bucks is the amount of money people are willing to steal over instead of paying.

Soooo... whether we've illegally downloaded, or made/shared mix tapes/CDs, or bought used CDs, it looks like each and every one of us has contributed to the complete and utter destruction of the music industry in some form or another. Awesome. Great job everyone!!!