"Court Rules against Behemoth Frontman in bible tearing charges"

http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/court-rules-against-behemoth-frontman-in-bible-tearing-charges
So, we feel the need to bring back up an issue from 2007 that everyone thought was cleared? The maximum penalty of two years in prison still boggles the mind, Poland is one crazy place!

While I dont condone ripping up Bible's, I dont think anyone should be prohibited from doing so as long its their own property. I too think jail time is beyond crazy.

exact33 wrote:

While I dont condone ripping up Bible's, I dont think anyone should be prohibited from doing so as long its their own property. I too think jail time is beyond crazy.

You beat me to it. I totally agree.

tohostudios wrote:

exact33 wrote:

While I dont condone ripping up Bible's, I dont think anyone should be prohibited from doing so as long its their own property. I too think jail time is beyond crazy.

You beat me to it. I totally agree.

Ditto. While tearing up a bible may be offensive, it by no is something that needs to be dragged into court, and putting the possibility of jail time on the table just makes it sound crazy.

I'm sure that this subjective to the people who you are offending.  If it's not offensive to anyone, it's not going to be taken up by anyone as an issue.  Obvious statement, however, it looks as if people seem to forget it.

I'm aware of the UK has the 'Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006' that this could get slung under (and I'm sure other countries have their own version), however it appears to attract some controversy in relation to the Human Rights Act.

It looks as if if offence is caused and makes it to a court, it's quite a subjective process.  Alas, appears to be a Gray area on the outcome.  This is often difficult as people are always looking for black/white situations.

Extreme Music (as in the style of music, not the record label) often flirts with this.  It's not as if Behemoth have had an easy time since.

Poland is a Catholic country. Catholic country = Religious oppression.

Some people see it as happiness, however, I'm with you on this.  It's repression.  I'm equally as happy for those who have pleasure from it.

"crazy world" eh!

I'm sure if I made something up to make me feel better then, convinced myself I didn't make it up I would question my sanity (if I knew the difference).

Way back when I saw him live on the "Dope Show" tour, Marilyn Manson ripped up a bible every night on stage and noone seemed to care. Guess it's all about location.

He should go to jail. If he is free to express himself he is not free to violate and disrespect other people's beliefs.

Without sounding antagonising, that's a two way street.

Dr8breed74 wrote:

Without sounding antagonising, that's a two way street.

Absolutely! Also the whole point of free speech is that you CAN disrespect people's beliefs. It's how the Westboro Baptist clowns get away with the crap they say.

This is a long debate. Should there be boundaries for freedom or not?

Anyways I never cared for behemoth

I what would happen in the U.S. if someone ripped up a Bible in a very public, mixed environment? I know I didn't say this properly but I think you all know what I mean.

Yeah, I get it. Understand why people would be upset and would want someone punished. It's very, very important to some people. I understand this because if someone stopped me playing metal, I would absolutely fall to pieces! I can relate to it.

I think people should be able to do what they want. I also think people should be able to say when they disagree - oh no, I've gone all liberal! Sorry haha.

Gilbert wrote:

He should go to jail. If he is free to express himself he is not free to violate and disrespect other people's beliefs.

100% WRONG.

What would be most reactions, had he torn a torah? Just curious...

The religion is irrelevant, at least it would be irrelevant in a country with free speech rights.

S.D. wrote:

The religion is irrelevant, at least it would be irrelevant in a country with free speech rights.  

This.

Here's the law in Italy:

In Italy the Constitution guarantees freedom of speech, as stated in Article 21, Paragraph 1:[96]

Anyone has the right to freely express their thoughts in speech, writing, or any other form of communication.
The Article also gives restrictions against those acts considered offensive by public morality, as stated in Paragraph 6:

Publications, performances, and other exhibits offensive to public morality shall be prohibited. Measures of preventive and repressive measure against such violations shall be established by law.
Such restrictions are enforced through the Italian Penal Code which, for example, includes articles that prohibit:

insults against the honor and prestige of the President (Art. 278),
vilification of a persons's religion (Art. 403),


Article 403 is what the government is saying was violated - "vilification of a person's religion."

Obviously, this concept is foreign to us in the United States and would not be tolerated here.

If it is against the law, then, it's against the law basically. The water changes with the 'what, why, where, when and who' from what I can also tell.

I live in the middle east where, in nearby countries, christian minorities are being savagely persecuted by islamic groups ( supported by the western world!): beheadings, massive executions, destruction of Churches and Bibles, murders...being a christian I can feel this menace getting closer each day.

Funny thing is that, in certain parts of the "democratic" world, people also enjoy seeing bible tearing and refuse to stand against it or, at least, to condemn it.

Gilbert wrote:

I live in the middle east where, in nearby countries, christian minorities are being savagely persecuted by islamic groups ( supported by the western world!): beheadings, massive executions, destruction of Churches and Bibles,  murders...being a christian I can feel this menace getting closer each day.

Funny thing is that, in certain parts of the "democratic" world, people also enjoy seeing bible tearing and refuse to stand against it or, at least, to condemn it.

Quite a few people, (particularly those who attend black metal gigs) are still a little upset at the destruction of their countries' traditional places of worship and the murder of those who practiced those faiths by the Christian church, if it is wrong that this is happening to Christians, it was wrong that it happened to other faiths.

If you ask me to support Christians who are having their rights trampled on, then I will, just as I would any human being. But ask me to condemn a perfectly peaceful display of rage against a church that has wielded tremendous power in that country for centuries and used that power to oppress other faiths then I most certainly won't.

Who exactly was there to be offended? Is a Satanic black metal gig usually considered somewhere that Christians can congregate with no fear of having their beliefs challenged?