KISS - 20 years of Revenge

Quote :

(that's right FF I had to mention Mr Reed)

Somewhere, Lou Reed's ears are burning and he's thinking to himself, "Ahhh, Manny must've mentioned me on the Internet again. I must remember to send him his nickel."

Hey, turns out Lou's not such a bad guy afterall. Looks like he wanted to kick Lars' ass too...

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/lars-ulrich-threatened-by-sweet-lou-reed/

Quote :

Tensions boiled over during recording when Ulrich felt he had to tackle Reed over his attitude to an undisclosed topic. “I had to point something out about how things were functioning in the outside world,” says the drummer. “He got hot and bothered. He challenged me to a street fight, which is a pretty daunting proposition because he’s an expert in martial arts, and is never too far from a sword.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Hey, turns out Lou's not such a bad guy afterall. Looks like he wanted to kick Lars' ass too...

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/lars-ulrich-threatened-by-sweet-lou-reed/

Quote :

Tensions boiled over during recording when Ulrich felt he had to tackle Reed over his attitude to an undisclosed topic. “I had to point something out about how things were functioning in the outside world,” says the drummer. “He got hot and bothered. He challenged me to a street fight, which is a pretty daunting proposition because he’s an expert in martial arts, and is never too far from a sword.

Damn! Sounds like ol' Lou has got a touch of the Phil Spector Syndrome.

Here's something that should be a shock to no one - look at Gene's latest statements about the upcoming album Monster:

The follow-up to 2009's "Sonic Boom" was again produced by KISS fronman Paul Stanley and was described by Simmons as "either the best or one of the top three records we've ever done. It's like 'Revenge' meets 'Destroyer'

...yet still no announcement of a release date. Sigh. Just put the damn thing out already, Gene.....

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Hey, turns out Lou's not such a bad guy afterall. Looks like he wanted to kick Lars' ass too...

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/news/lars-ulrich-threatened-by-sweet-lou-reed/

Quote :

Tensions boiled over during recording when Ulrich felt he had to tackle Reed over his attitude to an undisclosed topic. “I had to point something out about how things were functioning in the outside world,” says the drummer. “He got hot and bothered. He challenged me to a street fight, which is a pretty daunting proposition because he’s an expert in martial arts, and is never too far from a sword.

I love Lou Reed but even if he was Bruce Reed, he is 70 f**king years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thejokeriv wrote:

Here's something that should be a shock to no one - look at Gene's latest statements about the upcoming album Monster:

The follow-up to 2009's "Sonic Boom" was again produced by KISS fronman Paul Stanley and was described by Simmons as "either the best or one of the top three records we've ever done. It's like 'Revenge' meets 'Destroyer'

I won't believe it til' I hear it. Actually...how could it sound like "Destroyer" when there were orchestral elements and choirs featured on there and Mr. Simmons said there would be none of that stuff on "Monster." Hmph...you can't fool me Gene!

Psychotron wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

Here's something that should be a shock to no one - look at Gene's latest statements about the upcoming album Monster:

The follow-up to 2009's "Sonic Boom" was again produced by KISS fronman Paul Stanley and was described by Simmons as "either the best or one of the top three records we've ever done. It's like 'Revenge' meets 'Destroyer'

I won't believe it til' I hear it. Actually...how could it sound like "Destroyer" when there were orchestral elements and choirs featured on there and Mr. Simmons said there would be none of that stuff on "Monster." Hmph...you can't fool me Gene!

It used to be that every album was 'Destroyer Meets Creatures', now it's 'Destroyer Meet Revenge". He isn't saying anything new. Heck, Gene and Paul said Revenge was "Destroyer Meets Creatures"

My take on the release time for "Monster" is gonna coincide with whatever else is gonna be released in the near future. That Bubble dude came out of nowhere and "robbed" KISS out of their first ever #1 album when "Sonic Boom" was released. They are gonna manipulate things as much as they can to release "Monster" at the best possible time to get that elusive #1 album.



They should say something like "Revenge meets Rock n Roll Over"

manny wrote:

stpatrik wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

stpatrik wrote:

I still think KISS should have had continued with this line-up, and they sounded fantastic live. But alas, the majority of folks, the dumb sheep, didn't agree and so the reunion and years and years without new music but merchandise overload and geezers way to old to be pretending to be demons, happened. Oh well.

Eh, I dunno. I think they saw the writing on the wall. Grunge and alternative were taking over. Carnival of Souls flopped on it's saggy man-boobs. Going full make-up and reunion was a easy way to stay afloat in a sea of flannel.

Well, like I said, the majority of folks didnt agree to that incarnation of KISS so I definately understand - I jsut wish they didnt. I never really liked the reunion, I never cared about flat-out nostalgia. I still went but kinda felt sad the Kulick-Singer line-up disbanded anyways. Its always the same, innit? Helloween keeps churning out great albums with Deris whilst Kiske produces dismal works but it doesnt matter people want Kiske back anyways. It doesnt matter how many great Sabbath albums Iommi wrote past the 70's - people want Ozzy. Sheeple.

Who knows how many more good albums this incarnation of KISS had in them had they continued. I bet there would had been some music being made instead of the dry-well that was the wasted time space between Psycho Circus and Sonic Boom.

Its funny you say this, not that I disagree, but I remember during their non make up era, people kept asking when is the original line up going to reunite and put on the make up, now we have a crop of fans asking them when they are going wipe off their face paint and bring back Bruce Kulick.

Yeah, well the thing is I got into KISS in 1983 and Lick it Up, hence I never had any personal emotions attatched to 70's and make-up era KISS. I looked back on the pictures and thought they looked cool and all, but had no desire to see it happen again. I always held a disbelief towards nostalgia - you cannot go back in time and recreate something, and the original band sure enough didnt have the "magic" and communication of the early days, which was to be expected. Also, I had the feeling the reunion would mean an end to creative, recording KISS. We got Psycho Circus, which wasn't even what it was announced as - the original band, but no new studio albums after that, for 11 years. I think that's what many people were complaining about - the lack of creativity. The smae thing happened with original Sabbath - the end to creative Sabbath.

James B. wrote:

My take on the release time for "Monster" is gonna coincide with whatever else is gonna be released in the near future. That Bubble dude came out of nowhere and "robbed" KISS out of their first ever #1 album when "Sonic Boom" was released. They are gonna manipulate things as much as they can to release "Monster" at the best possible time to get that elusive #1 album.



They should say something like "Revenge meets Rock n Roll Over"

its all about the marketing!!!

Pt. 3 - interview with Dick Wagner:

KISS - 20 Years Of Revenge Part III; BOB EZRIN's "Go-To Guy" DICK WAGNER

Rock Hard

Posted on Monday, May 21, 2012 at 12:30:08 EST

By Mitch Lafon

May 19th will mark the 20th anniversary of the brilliant KISS Revenge album. BraveWords.com will mark the passing of this landmark record with a five part series of interviews conducted in the last couple of weeks with the major players on the disc as well as a few musicians that you may not know took part in the album’s recording sessions. Our third such surprise is guitarist, Dick Wagner. Like Tommy Thayer and Kevin Valentine before him, Revenge marked Dick’s second appearance on a KISS album (having played on the band’s seminal album, Destroyer). Wagner has always been a go-to-guy for producer Bob Ezrin and made a name for himself as part of Alice Cooper’s original Welcome To My Nightmare album and tour. BraveWords.com caught up with the veteran guitarist to talk about his chance involvement on KISS’ classic Revenge album. He’s also recently released an autobiography, Not Only Women Bleed.

BraveWords.com: You make a brief appearance on KISS’ Revenge album playing the crucial solo on the ballad, ‘Every Time I Look At You’. How did that happen?

Dick Wagner: “I was in the studio and KISS was in the adjacent studio. I was recording some new material of my own... Some pretty elaborate demos. Some of that stuff is on my Full Meltdown album. Anyhow, Paul Stanley came over to say hello to me and asked me if I would come in and play on a track that Bruce Kulick hadn’t been able to do. Paul asked me to come over and play, so I went over. I said hello to Bob (Ezrin); they played the track for me and I played a solo. That was it.”

BraveWords.com: Was it your own original solo or did KISS have something planned out?

Wagner: “It was my own original solo. I don’t copy anybody. I don’t need to do that. I can always come up with something that is appropriate.”

BraveWords.com: Was there a solo on the track and it just wasn’t working?

Wagner: “I never heard any solo. They just played me the basic track and then I played my solo the way I play.”

BraveWords.com: The last time you played with KISS was...

Wagner: “Destroyer...”

BraveWords.com: What was the difference... Or how was it going back and working with KISS?

Wagner: “You know, it’s not like I was impressed to play on a KISS album. I’m not that way. I just play whatever I feel is right for whatever the song is and for whoever I play for. I let my own emotions and style affect whatever I’m doing. It’s just has to be really good and fitting. It’s not a matter of ‘oh, boy! I’m going to play on a KISS record.’ I played with Alice Cooper and he paved the way for KISS, so I’ve already been to the top. As a session guitar player, I’ve done big sessions and little sessions. I just try to play with a much fire, emotions and sound that I can get. I try to do my very best for whoever - big or small.”

BraveWords.com: Did it bother you that you weren’t credited on the album?

Wagner: “I’m used to that. People want to hold on to their image. You come in and do something that is great, but they don’t mind not giving you credit. Now, I’ve got enough of a reputation that it does them good to put my name on. As for Destroyer, I don’t think I was known enough to make an impression on them. They wanted it to be ‘the band’. It was the same way with Aerosmith.”

BraveWords.com: But there is a difference between the two. When you did the Get Your Wings album you hadn’t done Alice’s Welcome To My Nightmare album or tour, but by the time you got to KISS’ Destroyer - you had. You were a marquee name by then.

Wagner: “KISS didn’t want to have studio players noted even if they needed them for the sound. I always figured it this way - I’m being hired and paid (maybe not as much as I should be)... It didn’t put a lot of money in my pocket, but for me playing the guitar is something I love to do. So, when I get the opportunity to make something better or ‘complete’ that’s payment enough for me in a sense.”

BraveWords.com: It’s amazing how they keep things a secret...

Wagner: “They keep it a secret because they don’t want people knowing they had studio players. I accept that. They don’t want to give me credit; that’s fine they don’t have to. I’m just doing my job.’

BraveWords.com: Do you remember which Destroyer tracks you played on?

Wagner: “I played on ‘Sweet Pain’. I played acoustic guitar on ‘Beth’. I played on four tracks, but I don’t remember... I played on ‘Same Old Song And Dance’, but that’s not Destroyer.”

BraveWords.com: That’s AEROSMITH’s Get Your Wings.

Wagner: “I also played on ‘Flaming Youth’.”

BraveWords.com: Did Steve Hunter play on the same tracks as you?

Wagner: “The only track that I know Steve played on is ‘Train Kept A Rollin’’. We both played on that one.”

BraveWords.com: Oh, so you played on two tracks on Aerosmith’s Get Your Wings.

Wagner: “I remember playing on four, but it’s so long ago and I was into a lot of drugs at that time.”

BraveWords.com: But when you listen to the songs, you can tell it’s you playing....

Wagner: “I pretty much can, but I haven’t listened to that album since I don’t know when.”

BraveWords.com: So, on Destroyer you played on ‘Flaming Youth’, ‘Beth’ and ‘Sweet Pain’...

Wagner: “I played on four tracks during that session, but I just don’t remember the other track.”

BraveWords.com: You’ve wrote ‘Only Women Bleed’ which has been recorded by roughly thirty artist including Etta James. The song was embraced by a lot of female artists. That’s interesting because when Alice first released it, people accused him of being a misogynist, but that’s not what the song is about...

Wagner: “When you actually listen to the lyrics, you know it’s about domestic violence. It was a ground breaking song. It was the first domestic violence song that I know of.”

BraveWords.com: Back then domestic violence was a dirty little secret and Alice helped expose it...

Wagner: “Yup, that’s right. Gloria Steinem called it the ‘women’s liberation’ song of 1975. It definitely touched that movement. So, it was ground-breaking. Alice had the title and I had written all the music in 1968. It was a song that I was writing for THE FROST, but I realized that the lyric wasn’t good enough. I had some colorful lyrics in that Frost music. Although, the song was really good - it got passed by. So, I had that version demo-ed of my singing ‘Only Women Bleed’ with different lyrics.”

BraveWords.com: Do you still have those demos?

Wagner: “I do not. I swear to God. I have so many cassettes and maybe if I were to go through them all - I might find that.”

BraveWords.com: Speaking of old demos - Alice Cooper released Welcome 2 My Nightmare which includes ‘Something To Remember Me By’ a song written in the ‘70s. Will you be submitting anymore songs to Alice...

Wagner: “I’m sure they’ll ask me again. Just before Welcome 2 My Nightmare, Bob called and asked me to write another ‘Only Women Bleed’, so I sent down ‘Something To Remember Me By’. Alice had always loved that song and he remembered it. I gave him license to change any lyrics, but they made hardly any changes. It’s pretty much the original song that I wrote back in the ‘70s. I had actually performed the song myself way back.”

BraveWords.com: Lou Reed. You worked with him in the past. Have you heard his collaboration with Metallica, Lulu?
Wagner: “No, I have purposely avoided it. I hear it’s terrible.”


For more Dick - visit his Facebook page:

And pick up his book, Not Only Women Bleed.

Damn even Dick Wagner ( a nice guy by all accounts) refused to listen to 'LuLu' and he was one of Lou Reed's closet collaboraters

Part 4:


KISS' 20 Years Of Revenge; Bruce Kulick - "I Think I Finally Impressed Them On Revenge"

Rarities

Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2012 at 10:41:34 EST

By Mitch Lafon

May 19th 2012 marked the 20th anniversary of the brilliant KISS Revenge album. BraveWords.com has marked the passing of this landmark record with a series of interviews conducted in the last couple of weeks. Our first three parts focused on the lesser known heroes of KISS’ greatest non-makeup album. In this, our fourth installment, we switch our attention to guitarist, Bruce Kulick, who had a long tenure with KISS and is still revered by the fans. BraveWords.com caught up with the veteran guitarist (and current member of GRAND FUNK RAILROAD) to discuss his work on KISS’ classic, Revenge.

BraveWords.com: When the band went into the studio to record Revenge, Eric Carr had passed away, NIRVANA was breaking and KISS was coming out of a ‘pop’ phase. Was there a lot of pressure going in to make the album?

Bruce Kulick: “You have to remember that we evolved through those prior years. By Hot In The Shade we were a little more back to leather jackets and more straight ahead rock. To go from Asylum or Crazy Nights to Revenge would never have happened. So, it was a fair evolution. Getting Ezrin involved showed a real commitment. There’s no doubt that Gene and Paul can produce. They’re talented enough and opinionated enough. You need those qualities and they learned a lot from all the years and albums (they were making). However, I always find that when an artist produces themselves - there’s always some compromising and they can’t be pushed the way...”

BraveWords.com: It can be hard to self-criticize the music...

Kulick: “Right, but Ezrin is a task-master. They were cautious about him because of The Elder (which is actually a really interesting record), but it was a period when Bob was a little bit out of his mind and there was a lot of crazy things going on then, but that didn’t matter because his talent was always there. He was in fighting form when we did the song for the Bill & Ted movie. That proved to us that Ezrin can do the record. Wisely, Gene and Paul had been skeptical and wanted to be sure that ‘if we’re going to hand over the helm. We want to be sure that he’s in good shape.’ And he was. So, there we were with a real producer who knows how to work with them and did some amazing stuff with them in the past. That really formed this ‘take no prisoners’ tough competitive... Just to compete with the history of the band. This was our Revenge (that we could still kick ass after all these years). Yeah, we took the make-up off, but were still on top of the game.”

BraveWords.com: You had the added pressure of having a new drummer come in...

Kulick: “Yeah, but having a guy like Ezrin... If one of your elements or ‘ingredients’ is missing. You’re going to get a great guy to take his place - period.”

BraveWords.com: And Ezrin does that a lot...

Kulick: “When you think about some of the things that he’s produced or the players that he goes to like a Dick Wagner - who I recently admitted is the guy that played the solo on ‘Every Time I Look At You’. I did ask Gene and Paul not to discuss it because I was hurt (even though Dick is one of my heroes). It was still an honor and nobody (when you listen to the unplugged version of me doing it) would know any different. You wouldn’t know that it wasn’t me that played the electric solo. That wasn’t to screw with my head, but they were under pressure to finish the song and I was on holiday. Those guys don’t go away; they’ll work straight through and the next thing I know is ‘oh, there’s a solo on it because you wanted to play it for the label? What?’ It’s an amazing solo and it’s Dick Wagner. They didn’t have to fly him in; he was in the other room working on demos. Now, getting back to the drums - we did audition drummers (some name guys and don’t ask), but Eric was the guy. Losing Eric Carr was a hard thing to deal with. The emotional part was a drag and a really hard thing to deal with, but in terms of a task - the drummer is always the first to go. I’m not saying Eric Carr wouldn’t have been able to play drums on this thing, but Ezrin would have been all over him and I know that.”

BraveWords.com: He took Eric Carr out of The Elder on certain tracks. He brought it Alan Schwartzberg.

Kulick: “I wasn’t even aware of that, so there you go.”

BraveWords.com: Alan played on the song ‘I’ and also played on some tracks from the Animalize album.

Kulick: “I came in late there, so I wouldn’t know. Ezrin did listen to him (Eric Carr) play, but he could tell that he was out of shape. How do you play at your competitive best if your undergoing chemotherapy and fighting cancer? It’s crazy and really hard. I saw a couple of names guys come in and he (Ezrin) wasn’t impressed, but with Eric (Singer) if he wasn’t good enough - we’d work with him. We’d rather not piece this out to a ton of session guys. Plus, Eric was comfortable with Paul having done the solo tour (and he did a good job). The only track he doesn’t play on is ‘Take It Off’. Ezrin didn’t like what he had done, so Kevin Valentine came in. Eric Singer would have nailed it, but he had to leave (he had commitments with ALICE COOPER). In the same way that maybe it would have been my solo on the ballad, but I wasn’t there. Eric just didn’t nail it in time, so they brought somebody else in. I know I didn’t get a real proper shot at doing the solo on the ballad was because they really thought they could do a move within the label... Move over to an A&M rather than stay with Mercury because A&M was hotter and still distributed by them. It didn’t go anywhere, but it was a valiant effort to try an impress some people with a great song. It wasn’t a single like ‘Forever’ in my mind, but it’s still a great song.’”

BraveWords.com: They did try to do something with it. Even the video had Paul sporting a two-day beard and give it that gritty look...

Kulick: “Yup, but by that time the power-ballad was on the way out. At least, it had a real string quartet which is an Ezrin specialty. There was no freaking synthesizer.”

BraveWords.com: The album finally comes out and the fans’ reaction is a collective ‘wow’. This was Creatures Of The Night Part II - a loud bombastic... Was it ‘scary’ to put out ‘Unholy’ as the first single? Suddenly, KISS was playing heavy metal - this was not ‘Reason To Live’ anymore...

Kulick: “I think the idea was to show that the band had ‘teeth’ and harder rock radio would be more responsive than pop radio. So, we hit them with something really strong which for a hard rock tune really does have a catchy chorus, but is, of course, dark and heavy. Was Domino the next one?”

BraveWords.com: I believe so...

Kulick: “The reaction was good, but the whole genre lost steam to bands like Guns N’ Roses and Nirvana. That was our biggest problem. We delivered an amazing record, but the timing would have been better a few years earlier.”

BraveWords.com: For years, you had been living in Ace Frehley’s shadow (and I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way), but ‘Unholy’ comes out and suddenly fans’ get the Bruce Kulick signature sound. It upped your profile within the KISS fan base. Did you feel the same way about Unholy?

Kulick: “Really, the whole record. Ezrin and... They were all really clear that they wanted me to step up and work really hard. Whatever I contributed had to be as big as the record is meaning to be. I remember Paul saying, ‘you’re going to have to play with a lot of cojones.’ It made it pretty fun for me...” [ed. note: at this point in the interview - a technical glitch wiped off twenty minutes of conversation. We apologize.]

Bravewords.com note: After the glitch - the conversation picks up with Bruce answering a question about KISS’ next studio album Carnival Of Souls. Only a partial answer was saved due to the glitch.....

Kulick: “...That record in the mix really wasn’t given justice, but that’s a whole different discussion.”

Bravewords.com: Carnival was an afterthought. There was zero promotion for it and it went straight to the cut out bin which was a huge shame.

Kulick: “Yeah and there was a lot of politics with that too because of the Reunion tour, but I have a really fond relationship with Revenge and by deconstructing the songs as I did for a clinic - it really showed what a creative period it was for the band. Everybody really did an amazing job on their instruments and their dedication to making a great record. There’s no filler tracks on the record.”

Bravewords.com: Looking back now, is there anything you’d change?

Kulick: “Well, I’d include ‘Do You Wanna Touch Me Now’ and I would have let them sing it the way they had it. That’s the only thing because I remember when we mixed this thing... I’m a really hard to please guy. I’m a perfectionist and I remember listening back and thinking, ‘I’m 99.9% happy with the album.’ Truthfully, it was amazing.”

(Note: 'Do You Wanna Touch Me Now' is a hard rocking song written by Dave ‘The Snake’ Szabo, Bob Ezrin and Paul Stanley for the Revenge album, but was left off at the last minute. Bruce discussed the song in full in the twenty minutes of ‘tape’ that got wiped.)

Bravewords.com: Did it come down to a decision between leaving off ‘Do You Wanna Touch Me Now’ and another song?

Kulick: “No. It was going to be included, but a few songs needed a little bit of ‘surgery’ and they just couldn’t come up with anything for it in time. For the other songs, the miracle happened and the baby was saved, but with this one they just couldn’t figure out how to save the day.”

Bravewords.com: Speaking of babies - Vinnie Vincent tells anyone that will listen that he played on Revenge.

Kulick: “I was very pissed and hurt, the first time I heard him spouting that back when people thought he was credible. As much as he spins whatever is going on in his life in a reasonable fashion, I just think that there’s been a lot of negative things said about him that it’s hard to take anything he says very seriously. I know he wrote with the guys, but he pissed them off because he was expecting a certain business relationship about how they do the credits, how they split the songs... Which is their business and not mine, but I do know they had another falling out with Vinnie over it. The only thing I can ever... I wasn’t there for it and Gene said to me is that the beginning scratches on ‘Unholy’ - I did not play that stuff and I wasn’t there when it was done... I think he put a sketch together in the studio prior to Ezrin even being there. How hard is it to press record and just scrape against a guitar? It’s like a special effect, but why Vinnie would misrepresent it by saying he played the solo? I was like, ‘what?’ I was mortified and if he did play a solo at some point with Gene; it’s NOT the one that is on the record and I never heard it. It was a little creepy when he was there, but I played along with it. I know he’s a talented guy. He’s an especially good songwriter with them and if they’re willing to work with him than I had to welcome the idea because maybe he’ll come up with some great songs for the record.”

Bravewords.com: Were you worried at all because he had been the guitarist in KISS...

Kulick: “I would hear the rumors that Vinnie is back, but NO. I was not concerned. Had I not been able to come up with the goods and they had said, ‘Bruce you have to do better,’ than maybe.”

Bravewords.com: So, when you’re told than Vinnie is coming back, you weren’t nervous?

Kulick: “No, because I knew that he wrote eight of the songs on Lick It Up and it sold pretty well. It was all about the record and not about anybody’s ego.”

Bravewords.com: You were most concerned about getting the best final product...

Kulick: “Exactly and Ezrin welcomed it, so they went off a wrote some songs.”

Bravewords.com: Up to that point you had done some writing with KISS, but not a lot. You had had some good solos, but always very controlled. You hadn’t sung on an album yet KISS was always about the four guys getting a song (much like THE BEATLES). Was Revenge the first album that people came to you and suggested you sing a song?

Kulick: “No, I never expected to sing on Revenge. The track on Carnival Of Souls even came about in a weird way. First of all, I wasn’t real confident to do it even though I can sing better than I even thought. Jeremy Rubolino (who is related to Ezrin) did a great job producing me on my album, BK3. Even though I sang on my Audio Dog and Transformer albums, I sang the best on BK3. It’s how you work with people. Eric Carr was an amazing singer and it was shocking to me that they didn’t use him more. I realized that like they’ve done with Eric Singer, in time, they’ve let him sing a song because it is KISS like. Eric can sing a song and so can Tommy. I love the fact that Paul is doing that and they’ve established that, but I never felt, in all the years that I was with the band, that ‘Bruce should sing a song.’ I was happy if I had a co-write. I remember clearly one time that as much as I had that ‘Tough Love’ riff that turned into a song - I remember working on another thing that my brother wanted for a band he was working with... I remember Ezrin hearing it in the parking lot (I was playing it in my car stereo) and he said, ‘what’s that? I like it!’ I said, ‘it’s an idea I hope makes it on the Revenge record, but nobody responded, so I’m doing it for this project with my brother.’ I’m not sure what ever happened to the song. I think somebody used it as a theme for a product. I didn’t always get to write with Ezrin. I had to present things to Gene or present things to Paul... It was this method of pitching them with stuff that you thought would catch their ear. Sure enough Ezrin said he liked it, so I thought, ‘damn if I had only circumvented them and gone straight to him...’ But I didn’t know Bob real well then. It didn’t end up on the album, but was clearly something that could have been look at. I never judge how much I got by how much I could contribute; a lot of it was so political of how open or receptive they were to certain ideas that I had. I never took it personally, but one time I thought Paul was avoiding me and I complained to Gene and he was like, ‘you have to talk to him.’ He was like, ‘just tell him how you feel,’ and when I would Paul would respond more... Gene was always emotionally supportive that way.”

Bravewords.com: Correct me if this assertion is wrong. In the ‘80s, you were just the guy filling in on guitar, but come Revenge you were now KISS’ guitarist. You became part of the family and not just the guy who isn’t Ace.

Kulick: “I certainly did my job on Asylum and Crazy Nights. Ron Nevison (Crazy Nights producer) to this day says really nice things about me. I actually challenged them one time in the studio and he really could have thrown me under the bus. But I do think that since I was the mellow guy kind of watching and trying to please them, but never trying to overly impress them... I think I finally impressed them on Revenge. When Paul said, ‘I hear an acoustic solo on this Forever song,’ and I lay down this killer track with the engineer. He was like, ‘you got it. This is great.’ I always felt that I had their respect, but I think I just brought it to that level that I finally found my place in the band.”

Bravewords.com: Perhaps you had their respect, but not the fans’...

Kulick: “I can’t force how they felt, but I certainly was feeling (pauses) valuable in the situation. Then they leaned on me a lot about the song writing on Carnival Of Souls. If you love that record you can thank me, but don’t blame me if you don’t. That was the direction in which they were headed. It was heavier than Revenge.”

Bravewords.com: Carnival Of Souls has one song that I think is an all-time KISS classic which is ‘Master & Slave’. It deserves to be played live in 2012 and beyond. It should not be a ‘lost’ track...

Kulick: “I know what you mean. Eric and I have done it with ESP and it’s not an easy song to play live, but it’s got a great riff to it.”

Bravewords.com: It’s brilliant. It’s as good as ‘Unholy’ or ‘Shout It Out Loud.’ It’s a great song! Anyhow, any last story about Revenge?

Kulick: “I do want to tell this one story about working with Bob. Working with Bob was really important in my career. There’s no doubt that the things he’s worked on in his career were brilliant from PETER GABRIEL to PINK FLOYD to Alice Cooper to KISS.”

Bravewords.com: ‘Welcome To My Nightmare’ and ‘Destroyer’...

Kulick: “And when you think of some of the early Peter Gabriel - so it makes you wonder, ‘what does this guy do?’ So I was pretty nervous working with him and I watched him spin his magic (which is his musicianship). The way he worked was interesting. I would have a day where we’d work on a solo and if stuff needed to be redone three times then it was redone three times. You’d think you had the bass parts or guitar parts and he was like, ‘no. Let’s start all over again.’ That happened pretty often actually.”

Bravewords.com: Was it frustrating?

Kulick: “No, I accepted it. I knew why. I got it. It wasn’t to be punishing, mean or anything... We were working on kind of a Beatles’ solo which was very melodic and cool. It might have been for Domino, but I don’t remember. The point is that I learned it. We doubled it. I don’t have a real hard time doubling myself unless I came up with a riff that was off the cuff. Then we tripled it which made it sound even bigger then we took a little break. He comes back in and says, ‘I hate it. Let’s start all over.’”

Bravewords.com: And this was before Pro-tools...

Kulick: “You played it. You played it. You played it. That’s the kind of stuff where Bob pushed me and I didn’t mind because I knew it was a great process (even working out that solo on ‘Unholy’). So, I was very fortunate for having that opportunity of working with him. You do have to trust the person. That whole article that came out recently about Crazy Nights. Paul and Nevison were tight and Gene wasn’t. Gene thought he’d be too pop for the band. I thought Gene had some good songs on that record and Paul likes to say that Gene wasn’t there, but Paul was really happy in that pop element. It was selling a lot of records for other artists.”

Ed. note: to make up for the lost part of the interview, BraveWords.com reached out to Bruce Kulick via email to get his comments about the ‘lost’ Revenge track ‘Do You Wanna Touch Me Now’ and replacing Ace Frehley’s guitar parts on the track that ended up being called ‘Carr Jam 1981’. We are reprinting his email in full and unedited:

Kulick: “Do You Wanna, well, I always hoped it would be finished. But Ezrin and the guys were never convinced of the chorus. We tracked everything except a solo and of course lead vocals etc. Only a guide vocal track by Paul. And the song really rocked. Perfect for the formula of Revenge, although there were NO fillers on this record. What a tight guitar driven tune and the breakdown section had some killer Eric Singer drum beats. Hoped it would of been on the box set, but I had no control of that. Playing on Eric Carr's jam tribute track, which was actually something Ace appeared on from when it was I believe 'Breakout' was good therapy for me. I was obviously very sad about losing Eric and first thing back after the funeral break in recording Revenge was THIS track. 'Bruce, put some guitars on this.' Oh boy. I never heard any of the other tracks, just the drums and a reference for the riff that I had to play. Weird timing to do this, but good for me. I was happy we added it, especially in light of what an important record Revenge would be in the catalog of KISS.

For more about Bruce Kulick visit Kulick.net.

After reading all these interviews, I'm beginning to wonder if any actual KISS members ever played on any KISS records. Holy geez!!

MetalGuy71 wrote:

After reading all these interviews, I'm beginning to wonder if any actual KISS members ever played on any KISS records. Holy geez!!

LOL!!! Supposedly that was pretty standard for the industry going back to the early 70's. I read Herman Rarebell's autobiography and he said he did played on a lot of albums but still wouldn't say which ones. He said it came down to the producer needing to get an album done on budget and on time, so if the band member wasn't getting it done, someone else was called in to play the part and get the album out.

I had read that it happened A LOT with the glam bands in the 80's too (can't remember where!).

MetalGuy71 wrote:

After reading all these interviews, I'm beginning to wonder if any actual KISS members ever played on any KISS records. Holy geez!!

Yea really, all these interviews have ended up with someone's name being mentioned that played on one of the tracks. It's like "who didn't play on this record?"

I do wonder who these "name" drummers were who auditioned.

Also, is part 5 going to be an interview with Vinnie Vincent?

thejokeriv wrote:

MetalGuy71 wrote:

After reading all these interviews, I'm beginning to wonder if any actual KISS members ever played on any KISS records. Holy geez!!

LOL!!! Supposedly that was pretty standard for the industry going back to the early 70's. I read Herman Rarebell's autobiography and he said he did played on a lot of albums but still wouldn't say which ones. He said it came down to the producer needing to get an album done on budget and on time, so if the band member wasn't getting it done, someone else was called in to play the part and get the album out.

Yea, I guess it was a common practice then & now. Just sorta shocking and a little disappointing when you hear it. When I first heard Joe Perry didn't play on 'Train Kept a Rollin' I felt like a little kid being told Santa isn't real, ya know?

Quote :

I had read that it happened A LOT with the glam bands in the 80's too (can't remember where!).

I told the story here before, but I remember back in the day a friend of mine whose brother was in a band heard that Pretty Boy Floyd's debut album was all studio guys. Only the vocals were done by the band. True or not? Who knows, but we laughed about that one for a long time.

The Bruce interview has been the most interesting of these so far. I saw Bruce doing a clinic at a music store before I saw KISS for the Revenge tour and even back then he talked about how pissed he was about Vinnie Vincent going around saying he played on the album (Unholy,if I remember right).


I've always wanted to hear that Sabo written tune (even if it is unfinished) but never have. I wonder why they didn't put it on the box set ?

Part 5 of 5:

KISS - 20 Years Of Revenge With Eric Singer; "I Was Getting The Opportunity To Play In KISS Now, But Under Really Bad Circumstances Because Eric Carr Passed Away”

Rock Hard

Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 12:15:20 EST

By Mitch Lafon

May 19th 2012 marked the 20th anniversary of the brilliant KISS Revenge album. BraveWords.com has marked the passing of this landmark record with a series of interviews conducted over the last few weeks. Our first four parts focused on the lesser known heroes of the Revenge album as well as former KISS guitarist, Bruce Kulick. In this, our fifth and final installment, we focus our attention to current KISS drummer, Eric Singer. He first came to prominence with KISS as ‘the new guy’ on the Revenge album. BraveWords.com caught up with the veteran drummer (who is gearing up to hit the road with the band on their The Tour with MÖTLEY CRÜE) for his comments on the album that started his career with the band.

BraveWords.com: Tommy Thayer recently mentioned that he did background vocals on Revenge.

Eric Singer: “Yup. I was there when he did it. I did it with him and (I think) Jaime St. James and somebody else was there. I think Tommy has a co-write on one of the songs on the record. If I remember, when I did the record... I did the drum tracks in two sessions and then I went on tour with ALICE COOPER right away the next day - after I did the second batch of songs. When I came back months later (after the tour) they were doing overdubs and mixing... I wasn’t there when Bruce was doing lead solos and the vocals, but I was there when we did some background vocals and I remember us doing it. I remember me going in a recording a gong for the very end of ‘Unholy’. I recorded two different size gongs to try and get this ‘wall of sound’. The idea of me wanting to do the gong came from me being such a huge QUEEN fan and Queen geek... ‘Bohemian Rhapsody’ - the last line ‘any way the winds blows’ and the big gong at the end. That’s where I got the idea. I always thought that was such a great effect. We actually did that on one of the songs on the new record, Monster, as well. The thing ends with a big gong. We love the production stuff and Queen is my favorite band, so I’m biased.”

BraveWords.com: Let’s go back to the beginning of Revenge. You’d been on tour with Paul (doing his solo shows). You’d recorded the demos on the Hot In The Shade album (and it’s thought that some of your drum tracks ended up on the album). On Revenge, the spotlight is squarely on you because you’re replacing fan favorite, Eric Carr, who passed away...

Singer: “What had happened is that I did ‘God Gave Rock N’ Roll To You II’ for the Bill & Ted Bogus Adventure movie and Bob Ezrin produced that. Eric was ill at the time, so Paul called me up and asked me to do that. He wanted me to play on this song for a movie soundtrack. That was their way for Bob and Kiss to feel each other out to see if there was a spark. It came out really cool and I like it because it has a lot of Queen type influences with the vocals, the arrangement and the break down in the middle. It’s very Queen like in the approach. Then I went on tour with Alice. Literally, I just walked in the door and was about to put my suitcase in the bedroom and the answering machine went off. Paul was leaving a message asking me to call him. I picked up the phone and he said, ‘we need help with some recording because Eric Carr is ill.’ I told him that I was only home for a couple of weeks and he said,‘okay. Go to Gene’s house.’ I changed my clothes and went right over to Gene’s house and met Bob Ezrin there. They walked me through some of the riffs and ideas. They said start rehearsing tonight, so I made plans to meet Bruce. He started showing me some of the riffs...”

BraveWords.com: Had you worked with Bruce at any point before this?

Singer: “Only on the ‘God Gave Rock N’ Roll To You II.’ That was Gene, Paul, Bruce and myself with Bob Ezrin producing. Eric Carr came in a did some vocals later and he did the video, but I actually played drums on the track.”

BraveWords.com: It’s the only KISS tracks that has two drummers on it...

Singer: “Well, not both playing. So, I went to work with Bruce and I did find out that they had tried working with a couple different drummers and Eric Carr a couple of times before they called me up. They got together with Eric, but he was ill. He was going through chemotherapy, but I wasn’t there. I was playing in Alice Cooper’s band. Anyways, they told me that they had tried working with Eric, but that he just wasn’t strong or fit enough to go through the rigors... Being the studio is long days and it’s both mentally and physically very draining. They tried Aynsley Dunbar and for some reason Gene and Paul... I’m paraphrasing, but it just wasn’t ‘the right style’. KISS is a certain kind of style and you have to come in an assimilate. Aynsley is a great drummer and he’s one of my favorites, but it just proves that just because somebody is technically qualified; it doesn’t mean they’re the right guy...”

BraveWords.com: Right, you wouldn’t want Neil Peart in KISS...

Singer: “Aynsley is more progressive. He had played with FRANK ZAPPA for crying out loud. He’s got a lot of chops and is an accomplished drummer, but stylistically for what KISS does; it wasn’t the right thing. I heard they tried some other guy, but I don’t know his name. It was a studio drummer. Then they tried Eric Carr again and that’s when they called me. I found this stuff out much after the fact. So, I did the tracks and what they were going to do... I was only available for a couple of weeks. Ezrin said, ‘let’s just have you do half the tracks and we’ll have Kevin Valentine do the other half.’ Kevin came into the picture because when Paul was doing demos for Hot In The Shade; I had been doing some of the demos... Paul was going into a studio and putting these ideas down and was having me play on the stuff, but I went on tour with BADLANDS. He wanted me to keep doing these demos with him because Eric Carr lived in New York, but I couldn’t do it. The Badlands’ record had come out and we were going to do our first tour in Japan. So, I called Paul and told him that, ‘I’m not able to to continue...’ So, that’s how Kevin got introduced to Paul and Gene. He ended up doing some demos and recording projects for Gene (Doro Pesch on her 1990 Doro album). That’s how he met Tommy Thayer (who also played on the Doro album). That’s how he and Tommy ended up in that band, HARLOW with Teresa Straley. I know it’s minutiae...”

BraveWords.com: But KISS fans love minutiae...

Singer: “Kevin Valentine and I went to high school together in Euclid, Ohio. He’s two years older and I used to see him play in locals bands, so I’ve known him for a long time. When he moved to California we reconnected and that how I referred him to do those demos. Back to doing the Revenge; since I only had two weeks, they said, ‘we’ll have you do half the record and Kevin Valentine will do the other half.’ Paul had already been working with him and liked Kevin’s drumming. After, we started recording Paul, Gene and Erzin... We caught a good vibe. Ezrin said, ‘we think we should have you play on the whole record.’ He got on the phone to Alice’s manager, Shep Gordon, and said, ‘this is a good opportunity for Eric and the drummer in KISS is ill and they’re really liking what’s going on here with Eric.’”

BraveWords.com: At this point, you’re not in KISS. You’re just some ‘studio drummer’...

Singer: “At this point I’m the drummer in Alice Cooper, but because I had been on Paul’s solo tour... In these kinds of situations, you hire your friends because you know what you’re going to get.”

BraveWords.com: So, at this point, no talk about joining the band or touring with the band...

Singer: “No no no no no...”

BraveWords.com: So, no commitment from either side...

Singer: “This was basically ‘can you help out and play on the record.’ Every intention was to have Eric Carr play on the record, but he was ill. Once we started recording the vibe was good and they decided they wanted me on the whole record. It went from me playing on half of it... So, I literally did the next batch of songs up until I left for Europe (with Alice). A lot of people know that Kevin Valentine played on ‘Take It Off’. I did the song and Ezrin said, ‘it’s good, but I know it could be better.’ He knew I had to leave. I simply ran out of time. I couldn’t just come back tomorrow...”

BraveWords.com: So, you knew right away that Kevin played on the track. It’s not something you discovered ten years later...

Singer: “I knew right away because Ezrin said, ‘it’s not right and it could be better.’ We cut the stuff and he listened back... Gene went out to use his car phone and we called Kevin and said, ‘we want you to play on one song.’ I told Kevin that I was going to leave my drums here and just go ahead and play the song. Kevin and I are friends, so there was no problem and I was just a studio guy at that point. The whole idea was just to get the job done. I didn’t have an ego about it. I had to leave and he ended up coming in. That was it and that’s how he ended up on Revenge. I went to Europe and Paul called me up a couple months later... Eric Carr had gotten real real ill. They invited me to come down to the studio to listen to what they were doing. I hadn’t heard anything... This was in late ’91 or early ’92 (I don’t remember), but I went down to Track recording on Vineland Avenue (that’s where they did the over dubbing). That’s when the talked about putting the gong on. Then I did a few backgrounds (vocals). We did some gang vocals which was very common for KISS to do.”

BraveWords.com: Which is also classic Ezrin....

Singer: “We did the same thing on Carnival Of Souls’ ‘Childhood’s End’.”

BraveWords.com: Which is a decent song...

Singer: “Don’t get me started on that record.”

BraveWords.com: ‘Master & Slave’ is the only great song.

Singer: “I like ‘Hate’. If the record was mixed differently, not produced differently... I think Toby Wright is a really good producer, but he had a point of view on how he wanted to mix the record... We had really different sounds when we recorded it, but when we mixed it he said, ‘I hear it this way.’ At that point, Gene and Paul were into the Reunion... I don’t want to say they didn’t care, but their energies were focused elsewhere. Bruce was the one that was the most active with that record. We definitely didn’t go with an Ezrin production because he would have made it more lush, big... That record could have sounded big and powerful like Revenge had we gone with that approach to mixing it. We had great drum sounds (ambient room sounds), but he decided to go with this really dry almost mono sounding thing and I don’t know what that was about. It just wasn’t what a KISS record sounds like. It’s a good record, but it’s not a good KISS record. That’s not what KISS sounds like. Getting back to Revenge - I really wasn’t around much and at the point of mixing stuff, Eric Carr had passed away. I felt awkward ‘cause, at this point, they had asked me to play in the band. Paul would call me up and invite me down to the studio and say, ‘you’re part of this record too.’ It was an awkward situation for everyone: for me, the band... I was getting the opportunity to play in KISS now, but under really bad circumstances because Eric Carr passed away.”

BraveWords.com: How did you feel about that?

Singer: “Mitch - that is NOT how you want to get a gig. You don’t want to have something positive in your life come at someone else’s misfortune.”

BraveWords.com: Did you ever think to yourself before joining that since KISS fans are fiercely loyal that they may hold this against you and this could actually be career suicide for you?

Singer: “Nah. It’s just like the make-up thing... When you are a musician and you are trying to make a living playing... Not many people get to be in a band that they start from ground zero and get to be a big success. That’s really rare. That never happened for me, but I’ve had some great fortune playing for bands in great situations with awesome musicians. I’m totally proud of that and I don’t regret playing with any of the people. If someone asks you to play (and I’m a drummer for a living) - I’ve been gainfully employed, so I’m very blessed, but I won’t let anybody tell me that I didn’t earn it.”



BraveWords.com: As far as the ‘Cat’ make-up. I don’t believe you deserve any criticism because if you hadn’t done it somebody else would have. Maybe Kevin Valentine would be the ‘Cat’ in KISS now...

Singer: “Anybody who says they never would have done it because they have ethics or morals is full of smurf poo. There are guys in successful bands right now that if they got the call would do it today. If Gene and Paul called them and said, ‘we want you to be the drummer in KISS, but you have to wear the make-up...’ I guarantee, they’d all say, ‘yes.’ They might say the wouldn’t do it, but they’d wear the ‘Cat’ make-up and have no problem with it. For the exposure, financially and all the things that go along with it... There aren’t that many great gigs for guys in this business.”

BraveWords.com: Perhaps Lars of Metallica or the Crüe’s Tommy Lee would say no, but everybody would say yes.

Singer: “That’s my point and they’re the original drummers in the original bands that they created from ground zero. Why would they leave?”.

BraveWords.com: Back to Revenge. You were a fan. You went to their shows as far back as 1974 in Cleveland. What did it mean to you to be in the band now?

Singer: “I was all excited and happy. It was a great opportunity and I get to be the drummer in KISS. What’s the negative side to it? I did feel awkward and uncomfortable because it was at the expense of Eric Carr passing away. He was very loved by the fans, but I knew the band was going to continue on and I was blessed that they asked me. They could have had pretty much anybody be the drummer in KISS.”

BraveWords.com: Musically, the band came out of an ‘80s with albums like Asylum and Crazy Nights that were more pop, but Revenge wasn’t that. What were you thoughts about the music on Revenge?

Singer: “I knew when we made the record that it was really cool. Bob Ezrin is a real producer and I knew what he brought to it. He’s one of the best of all time. He gets you to look at things from a point of view that you might not ordinarily see it from (musically). He can communicate what he wants musically on an instrument... That’s the difference between a producer and an engineer who’s now calling himself a producer.”

BraveWords.com: Bob is also known for bringing in ‘his guys’ (ghost musicians). You recently found out that he brought in Dick Wagner to play the solo on ‘Every Time I Look At You...’

Singer: “In fact, I think it was you that told me. I never knew it, but the biggest bands had ghost people play on some of their stuff. KISS was known for this stuff which is why I find it so funny when people get so mad about the Peter Criss thing. He wasn’t even playing on the last couple of records... [ed.note: Peter Criss was credited for, but for the most part did not play on KISS’ Dynasty, Unmasked and Psych Circus albums.] People have short term memory. They don’t want to remember the ugly parts; only their version of the glory and good parts.”

BraveWords.com: I support the current version of KISS ‘110%’ - and if you deconstruct the KISS albums of the ‘80s, you’ll find that it was a lot of studio musicians and not always Gene or Eric or... It was Jean Beauvoir, Anton Fig, Allan Schwartzberg...

Singer: “I guess I can feel good knowing that I played on all the records I ‘played’ on... I was on every song except for the one (‘Take It Off’) and I never denied it and not to put anyone down, but Kevin basically learned what I put down for the song, but just did a better version of it.”

BraveWords.com: That’s why I’m a huge supporter of the current line-up. You made Sonic Boom and it’s the four guys. You made Monster and it’s the four guys. You play live and it’s the four guys with no tapes, no off-stage keyboardist... That’s what’s great about the current line-up. It’s a band again. It’s not Gene and Paul with a cast of thousands... Anyhow, twenty years on what do you think of the Revenge album now?

Singer: “Without being biased, I really like it because it was a really strong record by the band. They were trying to redefine what KISS was about. It was a little heavier, a little darker and away from the glam of the ‘80s. For some fans, this is their version of KISS with Bruce and I in the band.”

BraveWords.com: How was it working on the new KISS album, Monster?

Singer: “When we first started working, Paul wanted to get all together and flush ideas out. He wanted it to be fresh with no old riffs that somebody had worked on a previous record (that you’re just trying to re-write). Gene will write 30 or 40 ideas just to come up with four songs for the record. That’s the way he works. Gene, Tommy and I went into a demo studio a couple of times to put some ideas down and I told Gene, ‘I think you have another solo record here.’ I told him that when we have a break, we should go in and put some of these other ideas down. He’s got a couple of songs that are in the style of ‘World Without Heroes.’ They’re really good. When, Gene writes in that style it kind of reminds me of a George Harrison kind of a thing, but Paul didn’t want any slower, mellower, ballad type songs on the record. He wanted everything rock n’ roll. Understandably, he had a point of view on the style and direction of the record. So, that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to stick to that point of view. No outside writers. No old material. All new material written by the band now. Nobody, but the band plays on the record. Nobody, but the band sings on the record. Nothing and that’s what it is.”

BraveWords.com: Anyhow, any last words?

Singer: “I love the fans. Their is NO band that has fans like KISS. This zealous. This dedicated. This cool. Some of my really close personal friends, I’ve met because they were KISS fans. I think that’s cool. There are some great people and we have a common language; everybody speaks KISS.”

That is excellent interview and it reminded me when Brian Johnson joined AC/DC, he was happy he joined but he was not happy about circumstances, getting the gig because of some misfortune.

Eric Singer must be a hell of a nice guy, he has played with Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, Badlands, and KISS, incredible to think he played with these great artist.

manny wrote:

That is excellent interview and it reminded me when Brian Johnson joined AC/DC, he was happy he joined but he was not happy about circumstances, getting the gig because of some misfortune.

Eric Singer must be a hell of a nice guy, he has played with Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, Badlands, and KISS, incredible to think he played with these great artist.

that is a great resume.