WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW

Maybe he should take some time off (in the mean time, let him make a crap movie or work more for make a wish foundation, he wants to reach 1000 appearances, so there's a lot of work to do) and after some months, bring him back in a completely new way. No more saluting, no more rapping, no more "You can't see me" crap.
I think a Heel turn would be very bad business wise, but a complete make-over could make him interesting again. As long as they don't stark again with making him "Superman" it should work.

It's really like with Hulk Hogan, both were at the top for 8 years, when the Fans started to turn on them. Hogan took a year off after Wrestlemania 8 and upon his return was very popular again (of course he then became uninteresting very quickly because nothing about his character was changed)

Hornswoggle is the "Anonymous" Raw GM

REALLY?

Seriously?????

All I can say is UGH

Addy wrote:

Hornswoggle is the "Anonymous" Raw GM

REALLY?

Seriously?????

All I can say is UGH

Total facepalm moment for me.

I watched RAW last night for the first time in about 8 years and was totally underwhelmed. The PG-era is terrible. I find CM Punk to be without any kind of charisma and Cena is a total bore. Jericho is still entertaining but I can see why WWE ratings are in the toilet. There is nothing compelling going on.

I have paid more attention to TNA and while I think the storylines and wrestling are far superior to WWE, their production values are just bush league. They need to get out of the Impact Zone and hit the road or at least go to a place less sterile. The crowd is usually dead and there is no air of excitement. If the crowd doesn't care, why should I? I really wish TNA could be a viable competitor to WWE, but that's never going to happen and without competition, WWE will continue to suck. This is easily the worst era for wrestling and it bums me out.

Witchfinder wrote:

Addy wrote:

Hornswoggle is the "Anonymous" Raw GM

REALLY?

Seriously?????

All I can say is UGH

Total facepalm moment for me.

I watched RAW last night for the first time in about 8 years and was totally underwhelmed. The PG-era is terrible. I find CM Punk to be without any kind of charisma and Cena is a total bore. Jericho is still entertaining but I can see why WWE ratings are in the toilet. There is nothing compelling going on.

I have paid more attention to TNA and while I think the storylines and wrestling are far superior to WWE, their production values are just bush league. They need to get out of the Impact Zone and hit the road or at least go to a place less sterile. The crowd is usually dead and there is no air of excitement. If the crowd doesn't care, why should I? I really wish TNA could be a viable competitor to WWE, but that's never going to happen and without competition, WWE will continue to suck. This is easily the worst era for wrestling and it bums me out.

That last sentence is total truth.

Lately I've been digging back through my wrestling DVD archives and the stuff I've been watching (classic ECW, WCW Starrcade, and classic steel cage matches) totally shows how lame this PG-era stuff is. Stale and boring.

And I agree, TNA is far better than WWE from a storyline perspective but that whole show just reeks of "bush league".

It is the worst era in wrestling and WWE has certainly gone downhill. However, last night's Raw is one of the worst in recorded history. CM Punk is brimming with charisma (his popularity and merchandise sales attest to this), but last night didn't showcase that. Not Punk's fault as he's doing the best with what they give him. I've been tolerant of WWE's lackluster shows but last night's was absolute garbage. Especially the Hornswaggle as GM. During it's run, the annonymous (sic) was a mystery people wanted solved but it ran cold as of late and nobody cared anymore. Now that they finally reveal it, they give us that crap.

I don't think it's necessarily PG-oriented content that's to blame, though. You can have great wrestling matches and feuds without going all hardcore with it. From what I've seen, the problem is that the booking is totally screwed up, favoring bad sitcom-style writing over traditional booking that cleanly puts the guy the crowd likes over a guy who doesn't need a win. I've caught some of this CM Punk and Daniel Bryan thing going right now, and they're both fantastic wrestlers, but who's getting pushed the hardest by the writers? That chick AJ, in a moronic love triangle plot. What's the point of a wrestling promotion favoring a non-wrestler over two excellent performers and the championship belt?

I have even less interest in TNA I just cannot wrap my head around it, it just seems like Hogan's playground now a days.... Even though theres some cool talent in TNA

WWE just now plain sucks, I watch my DX dvds and I weep for the state of pro wrestling

Addy wrote:

I have even less interest in TNA I just cannot wrap my head around it, it just seems like Hogan's playground now a days.... Even though theres some cool talent in TNA

WWE just now plain sucks, I watch my DX dvds and I weep for the state of pro wrestling

I tried to be optimistic but after that horribly RAW my doubts about wrestling's future has grown. I will still watch it but that has more to do with some OCD tendencies than my satisfaction.

I definitely prefer TNA to WWE these days but I agree with the assessment that it seems like Hulk Hogan's playground. I wish they'd kick him to the curb. And he'd take his talentless daughter with him.

I posted this in the "watched" thread but I'll post it here too because I think it shows how far pro wrestling has fallen.

Quote :

Today I watched the classic cage match between Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka vs "Magnificent" Don Muraco.

This is the one where Muraco won but Snuka dragged him back into the cage and did a splash on him from the top of the cage. Comments from Tommy Dreamer, Mick Foley and Spike Dudley (who were all there that night in '83) say that match is what prompted them to choose pro wrestling as a career.

Would anything going on in either league now inspire anyone to be a pro wrestler? I doubt it.

tohostudios wrote:

I posted this in the "watched" thread but I'll post it here too because I think it shows how far pro wrestling has fallen.

Quote :

Today I watched the classic cage match between Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka vs "Magnificent" Don Muraco.

This is the one where Muraco won but Snuka dragged him back into the cage and did a splash on him from the top of the cage. Comments from Tommy Dreamer, Mick Foley and Spike Dudley (who were all there that night in '83) say that match is what prompted them to choose pro wrestling as a career.

Would anything going on in either league now inspire anyone to be a pro wrestler? I doubt it.

Nope. I can't imagine anyone caring at this point. I watched the 98 Hell In The Cell today and it took me back to that time. I actually had a gig as security for Kane (Glenn Jacobs) in 1998 and I remember watching that Foley/Taker match over and over because it was playing on the video screens as Glenn was doing an autograph session. Such a brutal match. Foley is insane and more than a little bit stupid to take those bumps. The worst was the I Quit Match with the Rock where he was chair-shotted 10 times to the head. That is hard to watch now. That Snuka-Muraco match is legendary.

Witchfinder wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

I posted this in the "watched" thread but I'll post it here too because I think it shows how far pro wrestling has fallen.

Quote :

Today I watched the classic cage match between Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka vs "Magnificent" Don Muraco.

This is the one where Muraco won but Snuka dragged him back into the cage and did a splash on him from the top of the cage. Comments from Tommy Dreamer, Mick Foley and Spike Dudley (who were all there that night in '83) say that match is what prompted them to choose pro wrestling as a career.

Would anything going on in either league now inspire anyone to be a pro wrestler? I doubt it.

Nope. I can't imagine anyone caring at this point. I watched the 98 Hell In The Cell today and it took me back to that time. I actually had a gig as security for Kane (Glenn Jacobs) in 1998 and I remember watching that Foley/Taker match over and over because it was playing on the video screens as Glenn was doing an autograph session. Such a brutal match. Foley is insane and more than a little bit stupid to take those bumps. The worst was the I Quit Match with the Rock where he was chair-shotted 10 times to the head. That is hard to watch now. That Snuka-Muraco match is legendary.

Yeah, as I'm going through this "legendary cage matches" DVD, I realize more than ever how far the industry has fallen in my eyes. This stuff is epic.

Today I watched Ric Flair vs Dusty Rhodes in a cage at Great American Bash back in 86 and it was classic wrestling storytelling; which is completely gone from most of WWE and TNA these days.

tohostudios wrote:

I definitely prefer TNA to WWE these days but I agree with the assessment that it seems like Hulk Hogan's playground. I wish they'd kick him to the curb. And he'd take his talentless daughter with him.

Since they kicked out Vince Russo and made Bruce Prichard the Head Booker, TNA as become really good. While there's still some crap (the AJ Styles Storyline with the drug addict) most of the stories are good, the matches are awesome and the last two PPVs were amazing.
Also as a Fan of him since his ROH days i'm happy that they made Austin Aries Champion. He's such a great wrestler.

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, as I'm going through this "legendary cage matches" DVD, I realize more than ever how far the industry has fallen in my eyes. This stuff is epic.

I think it's just the "Monday Night Wars" did more harm than good in the end. "Crash TV"-style, fast matches, everything fast paced, every week something big has to happen, storylines that should go on for months end after 3 weeks in complete chaos, people turn heel and face 10 times per year.

The "Industry" hasn't fallen it's just the Mainstream that sucks. I say it all the time: Watch the independent promotions. Watch ROH, Chikara, Shimmer, Pro Wrestling Guerrilla. They are great and while there are always a lot of spot monkeys, the guys at the top can deliver great 30-40 minute matches like NWA did in the 80's
(Also for all of you, if you never heard of them: Check out Westside Xtreme Wrestling. It's a german promotion, they have every year the 16-Carat Gold Tournament with Wrestlers from all over the world. I can't even say how awesome this 2 Day event is - and also european wrestling is a lot more traditional. If you like 70's and 80's wrestling style mixed with some more modern highflying, then you'll get it here and one of the best events i ever saw was here in Germany a show wXw did with Pro Wrestling NOAH from Japan)

Watching RAW and Miz finally got rid of that fruity faux hawk. Maybe I can take frog face more seriously now (or not),

Any thoughts on RAW 1000? AJ as GM? Ugh. The Punk heel turn was good but what the heck are they doing with Lesnar???? They brought him back to have him lose to Cena and then get punked by HHH on Raw 1000. Terrible booking.

Also, has anybody watched any of the Kayfabe Commentaries DVDs? I would really like to see the Jim Cornette DVD on the WWF in 1997 as Jim has such great wrestling knowledge and can really tell a story. He also drops F-bombs like it was going out of style. Here's a link to what I am talking about and it's definitely NSFW for language:

The AJ thing is stupid, but I'm willing to see where they're going with it. I'm of the school that's not sure about Punk actually turning heel (opinion seems evenly divided on that). It looked more like he was tired of Cena and the Rock taking the spotlight off of him. After all he's been the champion for quite some time now but every PPV he takes a back seat to the main event. They could also be making him a tweener (niether one way or the other) which he would be anyway because as long as he's wrestling Cena, half the crowd will cheer him regardless. As for Lesnar, he kind of pissed on the business that gave him fame so I have no problem with them using him to put over other people (though Cena and HHH don't really need Lesnar to legitimize their characters). Lesnar has made it perfectly clear he doesn't give a shinola about pro wrestling or the fans (i.e. I think it'd be a waste of someone's time to try and get an autograph from him). All he cares about is making money.

Good to finally see more than just HHH and Shawn representing DX. However, you can tell X Pac has not aged well and is clearly in poor physical shape (years of substance abuse and a screwy relationship with Chyna). Also was it just me or did Trish seem very creeped out by him? No commentary, forums, or commentaries on the show seem to mention that but I was sure I saw that.

Jim Cornette is definatly a great wrestling mind, however, he overreacted to Santino laughing at the Boogey Man (a truly disgusting and not to be taken very seriously character if there ever was one-other than Bastion Booger of course). He's burned his bridges with both WWE and TNA.

DallasBlack wrote:

The AJ thing is stupid, but I'm willing to see where they're going with it. I'm of the school that's not sure about Punk actually turning heel (opinion seems evenly divided on that). It looked more like he was tired of Cena and the Rock taking the spotlight off of him. After all he's been the champion for quite some time now but every PPV he takes a back seat to the main event. They could also be making him a tweener (niether one way or the other) which he would be anyway because as long as he's wrestling Cena, half the crowd will cheer him regardless. As for Lesnar, he kind of pissed on the business that gave him fame so I have no problem with them using him to put over other people (though Cena and HHH don't really need Lesnar to legitimize their characters). Lesnar has made it perfectly clear he doesn't give a shinola about pro wrestling or the fans (i.e. I think it'd be a waste of someone's time to try and get an autograph from him). All he cares about is making money.

Good to finally see more than just HHH and Shawn representing DX. However, you can tell X Pac has not aged well and is clearly in poor physical shape (years of substance abuse and a screwy relationship with Chyna). Also was it just me or did Trish seem very creeped out by him? No commentary, forums, or commentaries on the show seem to mention that but I was sure I saw that.

Jim Cornette is definatly a great wrestling mind, however, he overreacted to Santino laughing at the Boogey Man (a truly disgusting and not to be taken very seriously character if there ever was one-other than Bastion Booger of course). He's burned his bridges with both WWE and TNA.

You are probably right about Punk being a tweener as the WWE doesn't really do heels anymore. My problem with the Lesnar booking is there is money to be made off of him and they are blowing it. It's not like they are paying him all that money just to bury him. I personally don't like Lesnar because he is dangerous in the ring and injures other wrestlers but he could be a monster heel if booked right.

X-pac looked like crap and Shawn Michaels was mugging and overacting like crazy. I now remember why DX was better when Michaels wasn't there.

Cornette lets his mouth get the better of him all the time but I just wanted to hear his thoughts on all that was going on in the WWF in '97.

Witchfinder wrote:

DallasBlack wrote:

The AJ thing is stupid, but I'm willing to see where they're going with it. I'm of the school that's not sure about Punk actually turning heel (opinion seems evenly divided on that). It looked more like he was tired of Cena and the Rock taking the spotlight off of him. After all he's been the champion for quite some time now but every PPV he takes a back seat to the main event. They could also be making him a tweener (niether one way or the other) which he would be anyway because as long as he's wrestling Cena, half the crowd will cheer him regardless. As for Lesnar, he kind of pissed on the business that gave him fame so I have no problem with them using him to put over other people (though Cena and HHH don't really need Lesnar to legitimize their characters). Lesnar has made it perfectly clear he doesn't give a shinola about pro wrestling or the fans (i.e. I think it'd be a waste of someone's time to try and get an autograph from him). All he cares about is making money.

Good to finally see more than just HHH and Shawn representing DX. However, you can tell X Pac has not aged well and is clearly in poor physical shape (years of substance abuse and a screwy relationship with Chyna). Also was it just me or did Trish seem very creeped out by him? No commentary, forums, or commentaries on the show seem to mention that but I was sure I saw that.

Jim Cornette is definatly a great wrestling mind, however, he overreacted to Santino laughing at the Boogey Man (a truly disgusting and not to be taken very seriously character if there ever was one-other than Bastion Booger of course). He's burned his bridges with both WWE and TNA.

You are probably right about Punk being a tweener as the WWE doesn't really do heels anymore. My problem with the Lesnar booking is there is money to be made off of him and they are blowing it. It's not like they are paying him all that money just to bury him. I personally don't like Lesnar because he is dangerous in the ring and injures other wrestlers but he could be a monster heel if booked right.

X-pac looked like crap and Shawn Michaels was mugging and overacting like crazy. I now remember why DX was better when Michaels wasn't there.

Cornette lets his mouth get the better of him all the time but I just wanted to hear his thoughts on all that was going on in the WWF in '97.

Oh, no doubt Cornette is a treasure trove of wrestling information.

Another reason why I don't think they're going with a full on heel Punk is that his merchandise sales overcame Cena's. WWE makes a lot of mony off Punk's popularity and from a business standpoint turning him too much doesn't make sense. Then again I could be wrong. This is WWE, they do a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense.

I don't care for Corny's political opinions, but I LOVE his rants about what the biz has become. Sad part is that he's totally right.

Sword Of The Heretic wrote:

I don't care for Corny's political opinions, but I LOVE his rants about what the biz has become. Sad part is that he's totally right.

You are right about his politics as he sounds like an idiot. I completely agree with his analysis of the wrestling business and his hate for Vince Russo is pure hilarity.

I haven't watched wrestling in a long time, but I recently discovered Sting's new "Joker" gimmick, and for a guy who's 53 years old, he's is pulling it off really well. I've been youtubing all the segments I can find. So far I've found:

His initial transition in front of Robert Roode
His exposing Hogan's "retirement" in Knoxville
and Eric Bischoff calling him out, and Sting beating the crap out of him.

I love crazy man gimmicks, and this is GREAT!

DallasBlack wrote:

The AJ thing is stupid

I would say, let's wait and see. I think AJ could be a very interesting personality as GM and she quickly grew to a favourite of mine.
All i heard is that everyone backstage at WWE loves her and Vince even see's her as the new Miss Elizabeth, so i guess they will push her even more.

As for Raw 1000: It was hyped, it was overhyped and the WWE couldn't deliver. I thought it was a very mediocre show. The DX segment was way, way, way too long. Not having Stone Cold there was bad (but then again he just couldn't be there after his knee operation and still being in rehabilitation)

I wonder what Jack Swagger and Heath Slater have done, both get squashed. Slater lost against the Queen of Botch who looks horrible by now. I don't understand it.

DallasBlack wrote:

However, you can tell X Pac has not aged well and is clearly in poor physical shape (years of substance abuse and a screwy relationship with Chyna).

Yeah, it's very obvious that his past took it's toll. Though i have to say that i have gained a lot of respect for Sean Waltman since his appearance for Chikara in the King of Trios last year, where he gave 100%, gave a nice speech at the end and left a letter to all the wrestlers, thanking them for a great time and he seems to really enjoy Chikara.
Also the Youshoot from Kayfabe Memories was very interesting. I think he is on the right path and left all the ox manur behind (hopefully, i don't want to see him go down the same path as Scott Hall or so many other wrestlers)

Yeah, he certainly has turned his life around, mainly after his break up from that wreck of a woman, Chyna.

I didn't know where to post this so I'll just put it here.

CLASSIC quote in the sig there DB! (But I still miss Sherman)

Back on topic:

Today I watched the classic Hell In A Cell match between Mankind and The Undertaker. Mick Foley sure took some insane bumps in that match but according to his intro to the match, the one where he fell through the roof and got whacked in the mouth by a chair was a total accident. That's also the bump that knocked his tooth into his nostril. Just a crazy, crazy match.