WWF/WWE/ECW/WCW

CRIMSONMASK wrote:

Last night I watched CZW-Scarred DVD from Netflix

I remember the first time i saw some CZW stuff. In that one match Sick Nick Mondo got a weed whacker to his belly, flesh was flying everywhere and i just sat there stunned, wondering what that has to do with wrestling.
As extreme ECW was, they at least had some great wrestling matches with all those mexicans, Jerry Lynn, Lance Storm and others. While CZW while it belonged to Zandig was just one insane match after another.
Since DJ Hyde owns it, it has become a lot better and since they work together with wXw some shows are even great, like the one they did here in Germany in October last year (a whole CZW Show without a hardcore/ultraviolent match)

Some shows were really disgusting. Like the Tournament of Death 3 where Sexxxy Eddy cut an artery in his forearm. The blood came out like a small fountain and instead of seeking help, he smeared it all over his face and body

Still i think when it comes to Ultraviolent Crazyness nobody comes even close to some of the infamous japanese promotions.
Best example is still the 1995 IWA King of the Death Matches Tournament. Back in 1995 ECW was "extreme" with some Table Bumps and maybe Barbed Wire - while they used Glass, C4 explosives, Spike Nails and all kinds of crazy smurf poo.
Other promotions over there even started to use Piranhas and electric eels

Watching Unscarred - The Life Of Sic Nick Mondo it was amazing that such a normal seeming dude would put himself through all that. And as bad the weedwacker was I actually thought this part was worse.




Scary level of stupidity. And not just the jumping off a building onto concrete.

ShadowAngel wrote:

CRIMSONMASK wrote:

Last night I watched CZW-Scarred DVD from Netflix

I remember the first time i saw some CZW stuff. In that one match Sick Nick Mondo got a weed whacker to his belly, flesh was flying everywhere and i just sat there stunned, wondering what that has to do with wrestling.
As extreme ECW was, they at least had some great wrestling matches with all those mexicans, Jerry Lynn, Lance Storm and others. While CZW while it belonged to Zandig was just one insane match after another.
Since DJ Hyde owns it, it has become a lot better and since they work together with wXw some shows are even great, like the one they did here in Germany in October last year (a whole CZW Show without a hardcore/ultraviolent match)

Some shows were really disgusting. Like the Tournament of Death 3 where Sexxxy Eddy cut an artery in his forearm. The blood came out like a small fountain and instead of seeking help, he smeared it all over his face and body

Still i think when it comes to Ultraviolent Crazyness nobody comes even close to some of the infamous japanese promotions.
Best example is still the 1995 IWA King of the Death Matches Tournament. Back in 1995 ECW was "extreme" with some Table Bumps and maybe Barbed Wire - while they used Glass, C4 explosives, Spike Nails and all kinds of crazy smurf poo.
Other promotions over there even started to use Piranhas and electric eels

That would be Big Japan, still way tamer than CZW. BJPW had some semblence of an actual match, with the workers building up to the climax of getting dumped in the piranha tank. All the while salarymen politely clapped. CZW took the piranhas, duct-taped some light tubes to them, triple-jump moonsaulted from the roof, a fire truck, & a basketball goal, thru a plate of glass, into the piranha tank, then set everything on fire. All the while about 100 liquored up Delaware rednecks are screaming "YEAAAAAAH! F'N WIFEBEATER!!!! F'N KILL 'EM! Often before the bell was rung.

That spot with Mondo & the weed whacker was on the DVD I watched. I also remember that Sexxxy Eddie bit, that was disturbing. I remember when they went away from the Ultraviolent HC matchs & began focusing on the cruisers, replacing the weedwhackers & light tubes with insane roof & ladder bumps. I know most of the HC guys like Wifebeater & Mondo got out of the business for medical/common sense reasons. But are guys like Trent Acid, Ruckus, & Ric Blade still wrestling?




Patented CZW tank-bump

jstate wrote:

Watching Unscarred - The Life Of Sic Nick Mondo it was amazing that such a normal seeming dude would put himself through all that. And as bad the weedwacker was I actually thought this part was worse.




Scary level of stupidity. And not just the jumping off a building onto concrete.

Bumps like that kinda became the norm when they got away from the pure garbage wrestling. Dudes hitting falcon arrows & cop-killers off of ladders & rooftops. Or ladders on rooftops.

[quote="CRIMSONMASK
But are guys like Trent Acid, Ruckus, & Ric Blade still wrestling?


Answered my own question: Blade retired, Ruckus is still wrestling but weighs only 235 lbs(only?), & Trent Acid, unfortunately, is another name on the long list of dead wrestlers, OD'ed in 2010.

See, I like wrestling with occasional blood and hardcore violence, but I have no interest in blood and violence with occasional wrestling. ECW had a lot of violence and blood but it was counterbalanced with great wrestling. Anybody can mutilate themselves but Pro wrestling is an art form IMO. WWE may be boring, tame, and stale but good wrestling still manages to break through from time to time.

DallasBlack wrote:

See, I like wrestling with occasional blood and hardcore violence, but I have no interest in blood and violence with occasional wrestling. ECW had a lot of violence and blood but it was counterbalanced with great wrestling. Anybody can mutilate themselves but Pro wrestling is an art form IMO. WWE may be boring, tame, and stale but good wrestling still manages to break through from time to time.

That's me too. That's why I loved ECW. One minute you'd see Nu Jack and Balls Mahoney beating the hell out of each other and blood all over the place and next you'd see Juventud Guerrera vs Rey Mysterio flying all over the place.

Six guys hitting each other over the head with light tubes isn't good wrestling? That's just crazy talk!

I agree, CZW was the Jackass of wrestling, lots of initial shocks, but the novelty of the bloodbaths did wear off quickly. I think most of my enjoyment of it comes from telling others "Check this smurf poo out!" & seeing their reaction. & the insane spots, the "double backflip rolling pump-handle cradle Frankensteiner off the roof thru a table" type insane spots. I'm a huge mark for that smurf poo.

Watching RAW from last night and guess who I see? The great Big Van Vader! Even in his old age he's still an imposing figure. Considered to be one of the stiffest wrestlers in history. When you got into the ring with him, you knew you were about to get an ass whopping (sic?) whether you won or not.

Today I watched The Pitbulls vs Raven and Stevie Richards from 1995. What a freakin' bloodbath! The ending is kinda screwy with the Dudleys, Tommy Dreamer, Bill Alphonso, Tod Gordon and 911 all getting involved but still a lot of fun to watch.

VADER! he actually looked pretty good.

Man, how old is Vader? I remember he seemed old back in the AWA as Baby Bull Leon White. I thought Vader was one of the best transitions to a new character ever. Loved all his matches with Stan Hansen. Bring back The Lariat. Or Lariatooo for their Japanese fans.

Quote :

Today I watched The Pitbulls vs Raven and Stevie Richards from 1995

I used to love that match. Raven's head bouncing off the table on the superbomb was about the most painful looking thing ever. At the time I legit thought all four of those guys would someday become huge big name stars. Such was the magic of ECW.

jstate wrote:

Man, how old is Vader?

57 but he can still work his hard-hitting style. It's not like Sting, Hogan or Funk who can barely walk. Anyway, his appreance wasn't a surprise as WWE is building toward "Raw #1000" and the WWE 13 game that is centered around the Attitiude plus his son (Jesse White/Jake Carter) in wrestling and Vader wants him at WWE.


As for CZW again: I saw that Nick Mondo documentary and he seem like a rather intelligent human being and very down to earth, how he described his way to Ultraviolent Wrestling...i still believe there's something wrong with his mind. What surprised me in this docu was that he was involved with Rain (Bonnie Maxon) from the Minnesota Home Wrecking Crew (Shimmer) because i saw the docu in 2009 quite some time after i discovered Shimmer and the team of Lacy & Rain became one of my favourites.

And as for BJW getting named: They were kinda famous but they weren't even as extreme. I think FMW from the ultimate Ultraviolent Legen of Japan, Atsushi Onita, was one level ahead. Onita was crazy and he brought his style to every japanese company, even those who weren't known for hardcore stuff, like Michinoku Pro (he had a No Rope Barbed Wire Explosive Mine Board Death Match there: Onita & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Shrio Koshinaka in 2003 and it was just a TV Show filmed in some Ski Resort, not even a PPV)
Another ultraviolent promotion that was virtually unknown but also had Onita in it is Fighting of World Japan, they only existed from 2003 to 2004 but they had quite a lot of crazy death matches

Frontier Martial Arts Wrestling! There's a name I hadn't thought of in awhile. Gave us "Gladiator" Mike Awesome, Masato Tanaka, Hayabusa. Onita's fueds with Mr. Pogo & "Mr Danger" Matsunaga(?) were brutal. They also are credited with the first female deathmatch-Combat Toyota vs Megumi Kudo. After the match, Onita came into the ring & slapped & berated Kudo.

Apparently, the reason Ryback is still facing nameless 90 lb. weaklings is that none of the roster wants to be in the ring with him. Whether it's because they feel he's too dangerous (I doubt it as he's not a guy who's never wreslted before) or because it will hurt their character is unknown right now.

Today I watched Sabu vs 2 Cold Scorpio for the TV title from 1996. Best time limit draw I've ever seen. Sabu's dives are just nuts.

As bad as WWE gets, at least it's nothing like this:



Funny and ridiculous as that is, people who don't watch wrestling thinks it's all like that.

Also, it has been confirmed the reason Ryback still gets fed nobodies is because people are affraid to get in the ring with him:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/256347-why-talent-fears-ryback-vinces-jr-mocking-blasted-again

I think I just heard Jim Cornette throw a tennis racket through his computer screen. CZW, it seems, is not afraid to go a little outside the box. Mark my words, Vince will be doing this soon with Funkasaurus & some kind of Boogeyman knock-off. As for Ryback, I'm sure many of the old hands are having Ahmed Johnson flasbacks. It also serves as a convenient excuse not to do the job to a noob.

CRIMSONMASK wrote:

I think I just heard Jim Cornette throw a tennis racket through his computer screen. CZW, it seems, is not afraid to go a little outside the box. Mark my words, Vince will be doing this soon with Funkasaurus & some kind of Boogeyman knock-off. As for Ryback, I'm sure many of the old hands are having Ahmed Johnson flasbacks. It also serves as a convenient excuse not to do the job to a noob.

I have a feeling the reason for Ryback is the latter one you mentioned. They had no problem facing him as Skip Sheffield and the guy's been in the minor leagues for quite some time now (started his training in 2005-giving him seven years in-ring experience). If he was dangerous, there would already be word of it.

CRIMSONMASK wrote:

As for Ryback, I'm sure many of the old hands are having Ahmed Johnson flasbacks.

It seems that quite a few WWE workers have complained about Ryback, saying that he is too unsafe and a big injury has to follow. It's just like Ahmed, only this time, they hire unknown jobbers and not midcarders that get hurt.
I last heard there were only 3 guys who were really into Ahmed: Vince McMahon, Michael Hayes (surprising when he usually gets called a racist) and Bill Watts who was a Booker in WWF around mid-late 1995 until early 1996. Everyone else never thought much about him.

Has anyone seen the PPV last night? I hope not. It ended at 4:45am for me, i watched it (halfway through i still played EWR, promoting my own wrestling federation, because there was nothing interesting going on) and it was really, really bad. The opener was OK, Tuxedo match was horrible pseudo-comedy as expected (i guess nothing will ever top the Paul Heyman - Jim Cornette Tuxedo Match from WCW Great American Bash '89, probably the only time that stupid stipulation worked out), the filler matches (that 4 team thing, sin cara bothing around) left the crowd dead and i never experience that much silence since some very bad WCW shows from late 2000.
Everything else was forgettable, the Main Event was slow, dragged on, was lame, was in the end completely overbooked and Big Show - halfway out of the cage, spent more time looking at Cena, than trying to get out (since when has WWE camera work has been that bad?)
The triple Threat was the match of the night, while being bad. I hate the WWE formula for 3 wrestler matches: One guy gets knocked out, 2 work a match, then one of them gets knocked out, guy 1 returns, until one gets knocked out again....TNA showd at Slammiversary how to create a greaet, fluid 3 Way Dance in the ECW Tradition, WWE still has a lot to learn)

And Ryback is a failure, you should never try to copy another wrestler because it never works out. Yet they try so hard.

The ECW Unreleased Vol. 1 DVDs came in today and it's great to see some of these matches again. ECW was definitely something special and the WWF and WCW ripped them off like crazy. I remember stumbling across ECW one night on a local channel way up the UHF dial in the winter of 96/97. I was hooked from that point on.

Anybody remember how in the US at one point you could watch Wrestling every night of the week except for Tuesday? You had the Monday Night Wars, ECW on Wednesday, Thursday Thunder, Smackdown Friday, WCW on Saturday nights and Sunday Night Heat. That was a golden age never to be repeated.

Witchfinder wrote:

The ECW Unreleased Vol. 1 DVDs came in today and it's great to see some of these matches again. ECW was definitely something special and the WWF and WCW ripped them off like crazy.

Wrestling promotions always copied good ideas from one another.
ECW wasn't a revolution, it was just japanese hardcore wrestling brought (back) to North America. Which is funny, because japanese promotions copied the style from the 70's US Hardcore wrestling (Abdullah the Butcher, Terry Funk, The Sheik, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Kamala and so on) and did it beginning in the late 80's with going crazy in the early 90's. In 1993 FMW for example did a "Exploding No Rope Barbed Wire Exploding Ring Time Bomb Death Match" for the first time and that's a territory ECW never went into.

Take a look at the WCW: Abdullah the Butcher was there in 1991/1992 and involved in quite a few bloody matches. They took it to a whole new level around 1992/1993 with the extreme Cactus Jack - Vader feud, where Foley was left bloody and half dead most of the time (that one Saturday Night episode was so extreme it had to be cut down so it could be shown on TV, it involved Foley bleeding like crazy and taking that sick powerbomb on the concrete floor) and that was back when ECW was a part of the NWA, still known as Eastern Championship Wrestling with Jimmy Snuka as Champion.

WWF was always more PG-rated, they toned down everything: Roddy Piper went from the most hated Heel who went apeshit on his opponents and himself (the one promo where he smashes a beer bottle on his face, continuing to talk while the blood runs down, it was so crazy) to the Bushwackers (a famous hardcore tag-team when they were called Sheephearders) to the Legion of Doom (Road Warriors) and others. They only went 'hardcore' after some wrestlers from ECW came over and after they collaborated with ECW in around 1997.
The whole Stone Cold Steve Austin gimmick is a rip-off of the Sandman in the end.

Witchfinder wrote:

The ECW Unreleased Vol. 1 DVDs came in today and it's great to see some of these matches again. ECW was definitely something special and the WWF and WCW ripped them off like crazy. I remember stumbling across ECW one night on a local channel way up the UHF dial in the winter of 96/97. I was hooked from that point on.

Anybody remember how in the US at one point you could watch Wrestling every night of the week except for Tuesday? You had the Monday Night Wars, ECW on Wednesday, Thursday Thunder, Smackdown Friday, WCW on Saturday nights and Sunday Night Heat. That was a golden age never to be repeated.

I had this conversation with a co-worker the other day. Raw, Nitro, Thunder, Smackdown, the "Muthaship"(according to Dusty), & ECW. Wrestling was on every night but Tuesday. WCW also had a show on Sunday night, as well as the syndicated shows hosted by guys like Bob Caudle & Stagger Lee Marshall, usually on Saturday mornings after the X-Men/Batman/Tick cartoon block. That era was a perfect storm of talent(either in the ring or on the stick), writers, bookers, & TPTB who were willing to take risks before the competition did.

I still don't like WWE shoving SuperCena down our throats all the time but this Yahoo article somewhat diminished my disdain for him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/john-cena-make-a-wish-300-requests-pro-wrestling-wwe.html

I like Cena the person for his hard work, passion for the business, and charity work. As far as the wrestler goes, I ain't no hater, but I ain't no fan either. Though I too do tire of him these days, he's definatly overdue for a character change (or at the very least a tweak).