What really happened to 80s metal

I'm ok with metal going mostly back underground but could someone throw some dirt on rap now.

Dark Horseman wrote:

I'm ok with metal going mostly back underground but could someone throw some dirt on rap now.

Rap was replaced by it's even more annoying hip hop cousin. That's the sound of music to the current generation...pity the future.

Lurideath wrote:

I don't understand anything about why the industry changed back then. I mean bands who were really commercial started getting really heavy again and then all of a sudden, poof.. they were gone or changed styles. KISS for example released their heaviest album in Revenge! Then went to the shitter again.

Because KISS and other Bands jumped on the Grunge Bandwagon.
Take most of the so called 'Glam' Band even if it's debatable if some of them are even Glam: Warrant, Skid Row, Ugly Kid Joe, Wildside and even Mötley Crüe were suddenly changing their sound, losing all their previous Fans and failed to get the Grunge audience, because they wanted nothing to do with those Bands. The albums were failures, the Bands disbanded.
I think the whole 80's scene died because a new trend was starting to gain hype and instead of just sticking to their music, they were lusting after money and fame, changing their 80's sound to the new hip thing, alienating their fan-base.
Who knows what would happened if the bands just stick to their style. There could've been a ressurgence of 80's Glam in the late 90's instead of that Nu "Metal" thing.

S.D. wrote:

Dark Horseman wrote:

I'm ok with metal going mostly back underground but could someone throw some dirt on rap now.

Rap was replaced by it's even more annoying hip hop cousin. That's the sound of music to the current generation...pity the future.

You are correct!

Quote :

I think the whole 80's scene died because a new trend was starting to gain hype and instead of just sticking to their music, they were lusting after money and fame, changing their 80's sound to the new hip thing, alienating their fan-base.

Some of the responsibility was the record companies putting pressure on their "big acts" to remain relevent though too.

As easy as it is to blame the band for jumping on the bandwagon, you have to consider the big labels that had allot invested in groups like Motley Crue, Kiss, Warrant, and other once-platinum selling artists.

They had the power to shelve the album if they didn't think it would sell. If grunge was the new flavor of the day, you know the the label reps were saying "You want us to promote this and go on tour, you better grunge-up this album. Kids don't want glam anymore and we gotta make our quota".

They had investments to protect and that meant doing whatever means necessary to make a profit. Once they saw that glam bands making grunge records wasn't going to work, that's when they dropped once "hot" acts like a cold turd. And without a record deal, the bands broke up and became house painters.

Anytime a genre of music becomes too bloated, takes itself too seriously and starts to cannibalize itself...inevitably something will come along and wipe it from the face of the earth...at least for awhile.

In the late 70's it happened to arena-rock bands, in the early 90's it was metal's turn.

I hardly noticed the Grunge thing when it was happening, but I had already become bored with the majority of the "big" metal bands by that point and was looking to the underground for stuff that inspired me.

Then when the whole Grunge scene imploded on itself I just moved off into other types of music...for over a decade.

The retro bands exploring the early 70's rock sound was what got me back into hard rock and metal again.

Taking a 10 year break from the music was needed for me, everything sounded good again when I started back. *edit* - Although that bloom didn't really last very long, I'm back to being mostly disinterested again.

Funny. If you go back to page 1 of this thread and read all the responses, you'll get the answer.

What really happened to 80's metal? All of the above.

Every response is correct on some level. There is no one all-encompassing reason.

S.D. wrote:

In the late 70's it happened to arena-rock bands, in the early 90's it was metal's turn.

Eh, Foreigner, Toto, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Rainbow, Survivor, Styx, Sammy Hagar, .38 Special, just to name a few, had some of their biggest hits and best-selling albums in the '80s...And a lot of what got labeled as "hair metal" was pretty much a continuation of what those bands were doing (Bon Jovi, Europe, later Def Leppard, Bad English, just to name a few).

Kiss - Revenge is in no way, shape or form "grunge."

Most bands didn't go modern rock/alternative/industrial/grunge/whatever until like '94 (although there were already some that did in '93).
As I understand it, as late as 1991 hair metal was still mainstream ( some bands, such as Styx, Deep Purple, Foreigner or Crimson Glory even jumped on the bandwagon in '90-'91).
However, although grunge was taking over by '92-'93, a fair share of bands did try to change, but didn't go grunge yet, and went into a heavier/bluesier/proggier direction - Poison's Native Tongue, Bon Jovi's Keep The Faith, Winger's Pull, Kiss' Revenge and Warrant's Dog Eat Dog are all examples of this.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

S.D. wrote:

In the late 70's it happened to arena-rock bands, in the early 90's it was metal's turn.

Eh, Foreigner, Toto, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Rainbow, Survivor, Styx, Sammy Hagar, .38 Special, just to name a few, had some of their biggest hits and best-selling albums in the '80s...And a lot of what got labeled as "hair metal" was pretty much a continuation of what those bands were doing (Bon Jovi, Europe, later Def Leppard, Bad English, just to name a few).

But MANY of those bands had drastically "commercialized" their sound in the late 70s, which allowed them those early 80s hits.

I think 80s metal kinda resembled the boy band craze. Once a band was popular, the record companies were mass producing them by the dozens. They did (and still do) this with anything thats popular.

exact33 wrote:

I think 80s metal kinda resembled the boy band craze. Once a band was popular, the record companies were mass producing them by the dozens. They did (and still do) this with anything thats popular.

Yeah record companies feel that if 1 thing is a good thing then 100 things must be a great thing !

All I know is that the fall of the 80s metal/rock scene did and still does allow me to pick up a lot of great music relatively cheap at used music stores (accept the out-of-print ones).

S.D. wrote:

But MANY of those bands had drastically "commercialized" their sound in the late 70s, which allowed them those early 80s hits.

I think Rainbow is the only band in the quoted list that really changed their sound in a dramatic fashion. After Dio Blackmore was really on the hunt for a Single Hit in the US Charts and the band became more and more radio-rock.
But the others? REO Speedwagon never changed much, they still had the same 70's rock sound in the 80's. Toto even more changed back to the sound of their first album after the more experimental Hydra and the badly-produced (but funnily enough more "Arena Rock" sounding) album Turn Back were disappointing and then they scored big with TOTO IV that sounded like something out of the 70's. Foreigner had several Multi-Platinum albums without changing their sound, from Cold as Ice to Double Vision to Juke Box Hero and Urgent, it was the same style, no change but still a lot of success.

Those bands who indeed changed their style for a new audience are by know forgotten because of it. Take Foghat who were pretty popular in the 70's. Then they released a New Wave album in 1980 (Tight Shoes) and lost their whole audience and all the 80's albums they later released were flops. Same happened to Alice Cooper in the late 70's and early 80's after his dramatic change of style.

A good example for a 70's band that was still successful and managed to be successful throughout the 80's are the Dire Straits. They came up when Punk dominated the UK and continued their chart success, only changing their music to be even more progressive (The Love over Gold album) but even that worked out

S.D. wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

S.D. wrote:

In the late 70's it happened to arena-rock bands, in the early 90's it was metal's turn.

Eh, Foreigner, Toto, Journey, REO Speedwagon, Rainbow, Survivor, Styx, Sammy Hagar, .38 Special, just to name a few, had some of their biggest hits and best-selling albums in the '80s...And a lot of what got labeled as "hair metal" was pretty much a continuation of what those bands were doing (Bon Jovi, Europe, later Def Leppard, Bad English, just to name a few).

But MANY of those bands had drastically "commercialized" their sound in the late 70s, which allowed them those early 80s hits.

True, except that in the 70's they were playing "commercialized" music as well, just 70's style.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

Quote :

I think the whole 80's scene died because a new trend was starting to gain hype and instead of just sticking to their music, they were lusting after money and fame, changing their 80's sound to the new hip thing, alienating their fan-base.

Some of the responsibility was the record companies putting pressure on their "big acts" to remain relevent though too.

As easy as it is to blame the band for jumping on the bandwagon, you have to consider the big labels that had allot invested in groups like Motley Crue, Kiss, Warrant, and other once-platinum selling artists.

They had the power to shelve the album if they didn't think it would sell. If grunge was the new flavor of the day, you know the the label reps were saying "You want us to promote this and go on tour, you better grunge-up this album. Kids don't want glam anymore and we gotta make our quota".

They had investments to protect and that meant doing whatever means necessary to make a profit. Once they saw that glam bands making grunge records wasn't going to work, that's when they dropped once "hot" acts like a cold turd. And without a record deal, the bands broke up and became house painters.

Yes. Music is a business. Record companies are not charities and have a responsibility to their employees and families. There are a lot of players in the music industry and it always seems that the record companies are the ones catching the heat. Bad decisions always have a scape goat and the good ones has everyone trying to claim responsibility. I grew up in the 80's and know that if I didn't read about it in one of the music "rags", see it in my local record store, hear it on the radio or from a friend I didn't know about it.

It ran out of songs!

AndiP wrote:

It ran out of songs!

Then how come there are still many bands churning out 80s style metal/hard rock? They may be more obscure and underground, but there are plenty of them out there.

But they are no longer under pressure to produce mainstream hits in competition with a hundred other identikit bands. If an "80s Metal" syle band is signed to a major today it's pretty-well a one-off, the old school (like me) are just glad to hear some rock like we grew-up with, and there is a whole generation of new kids (like mine) to whom it is all new anyway. Steel Panther - Bands that are not on majors, either on indy labels or self publishing, or even not publishing, will always do what they love and if it sells one copy then (been there, done that). Back in the day The Strip was full of bands that you couldn't tell apart; GnR struggled to get signed, they eventually did so because they 1) wrote GREAT songs and 2) were a GREAT band. The week after GnR was signed every record co on the planet wanted a Buns 'n' Toasties on their rosta and there just ain't that many great songwriters out there. Remember that for a while Great White was the biggest commercial metal act on the planet and bands were as well known for their guitarists as for their singers and songs (which, clearly, is as it should be!)

Steel Panther, Great White, Guns 'n' Roses, Great White.... are not metal bands.
Nothing as annoying as people thinking '80s metal = hair metal (or glam rock = hair metal)

ShadowAngel wrote:

S.D. wrote:

But MANY of those bands had drastically "commercialized" their sound in the late 70s, which allowed them those early 80s hits.

I think Rainbow is the only band in the quoted list that really changed their sound in a dramatic fashion. After Dio Blackmore was really on the hunt for a Single Hit in the US Charts and the band became more and more radio-rock.
But the others? REO Speedwagon never changed much, they still had the same 70's rock sound in the 80's. Toto even more changed back to the sound of their first album after the more experimental Hydra and the badly-produced (but funnily enough more "Arena Rock" sounding) album Turn Back were disappointing and then they scored big with TOTO IV that sounded like something out of the 70's. Foreigner had several Multi-Platinum albums without changing their sound, from Cold as Ice to Double Vision to Juke Box Hero and Urgent, it was the same style, no change but still a lot of success.

Those bands who indeed changed their style for a new audience are by know forgotten because of it. Take Foghat who were pretty popular in the 70's. Then they released a New Wave album in 1980 (Tight Shoes) and lost their whole audience and all the 80's albums they later released were flops. Same happened to Alice Cooper in the late 70's and early 80's after his dramatic change of style.

A good example for a 70's band that was still successful and managed to be successful throughout the 80's are the Dire Straits. They came up when Punk dominated the UK and continued their chart success, only changing their music to be even more progressive (The Love over Gold album) but even that worked out

Well, REO actually changed their sound, but that was already with the You Can't Tune a Piano... album, after which they returned to their heavier sound, but eventually got back to the commercial sound on Hi Infidelity.
Just compare Golden Country to In Your Letter. But yeah, they actually had the commercial sound before the '80s started.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

Steel Panther, Great White, Guns 'n' Roses, Great White.... are not metal bands.
Nothing as annoying as people thinking '80s metal = hair metal (or glam rock = hair metal)

Be prepared to be constantly annoyed then. Like it or not, a large number of people think that way. And really this whole thread is more or less about those 'pop metal' bands.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

Great White are not a metal band.
.

Guess you've never heard the Out Of The Night Ep

which was re-released as


Or the self titled lp


Here is some proof

That first Great White album is my favorite!!!!!!!! This is where being there clashes with revisionism(I think I got that right).