What really happened to 80s metal

I know alot of people say grunge (Nirvana to be exact) killed 80s metal but i do not think so. What I think is the record company's killed it. By the end of the 80s and early 90s the record companies had signed so many bands and had them all playing the same sound and looking the same that the industry was way over saturated. I also think guns n roses played apart in things as well. To me they turned it from "Glam" to sleaze and ushered in the heavier sound. Grunge was really a continuation of that. Grunge seems to have drawn alot of influence from heavier 70s metal bands like sabbath, Hendrix and the punk movement. GnR also drew from the 70s in their sound and look.
I am not convinced 80s metal really died..it went back underground where it came from. Seems to me alot of metal genres start underground and eventually return there after there popularity fades. What does everyone else think?

It's easy to point at grunge (Nirvana specifically), but I think it was a combination of things. Over saturation, both radio & MTV, too many watered-down bands offering nothing new, bands overly concerned with style over substance, etc. That doesn't even account for the change in pop culture and the whole "good times 80's vibe" that seemed like a bad joke to a slightly younger generation. A change was needed.

The whole scene just got too top heavy and toppled over on itself. Grunge just happened by the carnage and said "Here, try this instead". Punk did the same thing in the 70's when the old rockers got too big for their britches.

MetalGuy71 wrote:

It's easy to point at grunge (Nirvana specifically), but I think it was a combination of things. Over saturation, both radio & MTV, too many watered-down bands offering nothing new, bands overly concerned with style over substance, etc. That doesn't even account for the change in pop culture and the whole "good times 80's vibe" that seemed like a bad joke to a slightly younger generation. A change was needed.

The whole scene just got too top heavy and toppled over on itself. Grunge just happened by the carnage and said "Here, try this instead". Punk did the same thing in the 70's when the old rockers got too big for their britches.

x1000, I remember when Nirvana, Soundgarden, other so called alt-metal bands (as for a short time they were dubbed) came on the scene, to me they were fresh, new and different, of course soon you had 10000 other bands trying to sound like these bands which helped kill those bands in a short amount of time.

Quote :

the whole "good times 80's vibe" that seemed like a bad joke to a slightly younger generation.

This is the part I didn't understand. I still don't. Young people in the 90s had it way better than today. The Clinton era was very profitable for people. There were jobs and life was generally good. Even as dismal as it is now "partying like an 80s rock star" seems better to me than feeling sorry for yourself. I agree 80s metal got really watered down. Some bands like Bon Jovi and Warrant I wouldn't even call metal but pop. When I first heard Pearl Jams first album I could hear alot of Hendrix style riffs all over it and Nirvana reminded me of an updated cross between the sex pistols and the clash. Alice in Chains was a fresh original band.

I think it was all the second and below tier bands that records companies were trying to make the next big thing plus the way the established bands behaved. It was amusing to hear the escapades of Motley Crue at first but repeated drug busts and alcohol binges got old.

brokentulsa wrote:

Quote :

the whole "good times 80's vibe" that seemed like a bad joke to a slightly younger generation.

This is the part I didn't understand. I still don't. Young people in the 90s had it way better than today. The Clinton era was very profitable for people. There were jobs and life was generally good. Even as dismal as it is now "partying like an 80s rock star" seems better to me than feeling sorry for yourself. I agree 80s metal got really watered down. Some bands like Bon Jovi and Warrant I wouldn't even call metal but pop. When I first heard Pearl Jams first album I could hear alot of Hendrix style riffs all over it and Nirvana reminded me of an updated cross between the sex pistols and the clash. Alice in Chains was a fresh original band.

In simple terms, the Reagan era was a peak period for excess (the whole 'greed is good' mantra), so the whole glam scene, from the costumes and makeup to the stage show and the associated 'good time' vibe fit right in. The sort of stuff seen in the movie The Decline of Western Civilisation: The Metal Years give a fairly good indication of the self-destructive nature of excess. I can remember Alice Cooper in about 1994 saying that he'd take all these depressed teenagers listening to grunge to Disneyland to cheer them up! Even then he was aware that he couldn't speak for them in the way he had in the 70s and 80s. The music had turned from that good time vibe of the 80s to the angsty vibe of the 90s, glam metal had run its course, and the marketers and consumers followed suit accordingly.

I've heard this saying before and believe it to be true.

"Smells Like Teen Spirit didnt kill 80's metal,Unskinny Bop did"

And the good times of sex and drugs in the 80's was showing it's ugly side by the early 90's. Overdosing and AIDS were hardly anything to feel good about.

Thrasher73 wrote:

"Smells Like Teen Spirit didnt kill 80's metal,Unskinny Bop did"

I am forced to agree with this.

brokentulsa wrote:

This is the part I didn't understand. I still don't. Young people in the 90s had it way better than today. The Clinton era was very profitable for people. There were jobs and life was generally good. Even as dismal as it is now "partying like an 80s rock star" seems better to me than feeling sorry for yourself.

It's a broad rule of thumb that art and culture drift more toward optimism during hard times, when people are really desperate for escape from their troubles (e.g., the Great Depression/WWII), yet they get more introspective and downbeat during good times, when people can afford to feel guilty about their good fortune (the 90s).

sheets wrote:

brokentulsa wrote:

This is the part I didn't understand. I still don't. Young people in the 90s had it way better than today. The Clinton era was very profitable for people. There were jobs and life was generally good. Even as dismal as it is now "partying like an 80s rock star" seems better to me than feeling sorry for yourself.

It's a broad rule of thumb that art and culture drift more toward optimism during hard times, when people are really desperate for escape from their troubles (e.g., the Great Depression/WWII), yet they get more introspective and downbeat during good times, when people can afford to feel guilty about their good fortune (the 90s).

Actually, during the early to mid 90's we were in a recession. Housing prices dropped sharply and a lot of folks were out of work. For the college grads of the early 90's (myself included), good jobs were hard to come by. The internet revolution is what kicked the economy into high gear during the late 90's. The height of Grunge's popularity was during the recession and the early clinton years. Teens saw their parents get laid off during this period and then went to college on student loans. It was a rough economic time when Grunge came to popularity.

thejokeriv wrote:

sheets wrote:

brokentulsa wrote:

This is the part I didn't understand. I still don't. Young people in the 90s had it way better than today. The Clinton era was very profitable for people. There were jobs and life was generally good. Even as dismal as it is now "partying like an 80s rock star" seems better to me than feeling sorry for yourself.

It's a broad rule of thumb that art and culture drift more toward optimism during hard times, when people are really desperate for escape from their troubles (e.g., the Great Depression/WWII), yet they get more introspective and downbeat during good times, when people can afford to feel guilty about their good fortune (the 90s).

Actually, during the early to mid 90's we were in a recession. Housing prices dropped sharply and a lot of folks were out of work. For the college grads of the early 90's (myself included), good jobs were hard to come by. The internet revolution is what kicked the economy into high gear during the late 90's. The height of Grunge's popularity was during the recession and the early clinton years. Teens saw their parents get laid off during this period and then went to college on student loans. It was a rough economic time when Grunge came to popularity.

I was working at the time so I never really noticed that. I don't think that we had that problem in the SF Bay Area, everyone that I knew that wanted to work worked and my Dad had his job until he retired, which was a few years ago.


I can agree with the "Unskinny Bop" Comment, though

I tend to think it had just run it's course with the general public. And like all things that get popular musically the music business just chased/cashed in on the trend rather than widen or expand upon the formula. It cannabalized itself in the end. Just as all genres that become big eventually do. To me the amazing part of 80's metal was how long it lasted as a big thing. Certainly a lot longer than the "grunge movement" did.

What always bothered me was the fact that a lot of metal bands could have easily found acceptance in the alternative rock scene. Even without altering their sound. You'll never convince me bands like Warrior Soul, Voivod, or even a King's X couldn't have been on the bill of a Lollapalooza. But once the music industry declared it "dead", metal became a bad word in popular music and no attempt was made to cross it over.

The thing that is always forgotten is that bands like Nirvana, Alice In Chains, and Soundgarden were marketed to metal fans as metal bands initially. Once Nevermind broke big that ended real quick.

Thrasher73 wrote:

I've heard this saying before and believe it to be true.

"Smells Like Teen Spirit didnt kill 80's metal,Unskinny Bop did"

FTW

You're all wrong.

Mindless humans killed it. The record industry provided the weapon.

The Black Album killed the 80's metal I dug most. MTV and music videos in general did it's share of over-saturation. IMHO, the begining of the end for the record industry as we once knew it.

I think everything comes and goes in cycles. By the late 80's, everything started getting boring and redundant. But if a band is truly good they can survive any trend.

jstate wrote:

The thing that is always forgotten is that bands like Nirvana, Alice In Chains, and Soundgarden were marketed to metal fans as metal bands initially. Once Nevermind broke big that ended real quick.

Those bands didn't mind at all jumping on tours with metal bands, but did they payback and help out smaller metal bands when they made it?

mlotek wrote:

jstate wrote:

The thing that is always forgotten is that bands like Nirvana, Alice In Chains, and Soundgarden were marketed to metal fans as metal bands initially. Once Nevermind broke big that ended real quick.

Those bands didn't mind at all jumping on tours with metal bands, but did they payback and help out smaller metal bands when they made it?

As if the bands made those kinds of decisions.

Troublezone wrote:

I think everything comes and goes in cycles. By the late 80's, everything started getting boring and redundant. But if a band is truly good they can survive any trend.

very true. It is very similar to the power metal scene today - too many bands who all do the same thing. Its gets old after awhile...

It was better when I didn't know about the existence of that "Unskinny Bop" song. I'd sure be depressed throughout 90's.
The music had evolved, and gave birth to many other genres and bands we like now. So whatever happened, it was good.

Evolution happened to 80s Metal.

Pretty much everything mentioned here contributed to it's decline in mainstream popularity. But IMO it did not so much die as go back where it came from...

Interesting how it is starting to come back through newer sleaze/glam bands like Crashdiet, Gemini Five, Hysterica and Reckless love. Even the old bands are returning to their 80s sound..Saxon, Dokken, Y&T have all given us fine albums in the 80s tradition in the last couple of years.

brokentulsa wrote:

Interesting how it is starting to come back through newer sleaze/glam bands like Crashdiet, Gemini Five, Hysterica and Reckless love. Even the old bands are returning to their 80s sound..Saxon, Dokken, Y&T have all given us fine albums in the 80s tradition in the last couple of years.

I think shawn nailed it that the style is coming back from being underground again.

Thrasher73 wrote:

I've heard this saying before and believe it to be true.

"Smells Like Teen Spirit didnt kill 80's metal,Unskinny Bop did"

People calling Poison metal killed 80's metal.

Seriously, everything runs it's course, and besides that, 1990 came! Look at rap, it's changed like 4,000,000 times or it would be dead.

Rock is rock, hard, soft, real hard, thrash, whatever the case. 80's metal was just a supplement to rock n' roll that got popular
nationally, and then the world. Nothing killed it, just the cameras got turned off.