What really happened to 80s metal

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Back then we called it Pop Metal. That term was changed to hair metal by those looking for a way to make fun of those bands and it stuck while the term Pop Metal went away.

This...

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

Since forever, bands like Aerosmith, KISS, and TedNugent for example were labeled metal back in the 70's

Duck makes an interesting point. I'm sure the vast majority of the uninformed still view it as something Satanic.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

Except that heavy metal didn't start out as "satanic yelling, shouting and noise". The first wave of British Heavy Metal that included such bands as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, UFO, Judas Priest, Budgie, etc. could hardly be described as such. These were the first wavers then along came the second wave, Venom, Raven, Iron Maiden, Tygers of Pan Tang, Samson, Diamond Head, Grim Reaper, Def Leppard, Tokyo Blade, etc. It was a handful of these bands that added that 'shock' value to their lyrics and show, and certainly not all of them.

Motley Crue's first two albums, METAL. Ratt's first EP and first few albums, METAL. Twisted Sister METAL. Many of them progressed into something much more pop rock, but they were hardly poser bands. They were doing something new and they went where the money was, as did bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. It was the hordes of followers that might be called 'posers'.

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

Like I already stated, "posers" were the dudes who dressed up like the musicians and didn'y even play in a band. Hollywood and the Bay Area thrash scene both had "posers" hangin out.

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

Even Phil Collen will admit to that! Joe Elliot on the other hand is in denial.

thejokeriv wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

Even Phil Collen will admit to that! Joe Elliot on the other hand is in denial.

and he didn't even play on either.....go figure

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

James B. wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

Even Phil Collen will admit to that! Joe Elliot on the other hand is in denial.

and he didn't even play on either.....go figure

Yeah, no joke! Maybe he just has an objective view and Joe doesn't

thejokeriv wrote:

James B. wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

Even Phil Collen will admit to that! Joe Elliot on the other hand is in denial.

and he didn't even play on either.....go figure

Yeah, no joke! Maybe he just has an objective view and Joe doesn't

Joe's view is dictated by whom/what is interviewing him. Like Scott always said...."Joe was cool with all the magazines calling Def Leppard a metal band when Pyromania broke big"

I think Joe prefers "wood" over "metal" anyway......right in the back door.

ultmetal wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

Except that heavy metal didn't start out as "satanic yelling, shouting and noise". The first wave of British Heavy Metal that included such bands as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, UFO, Judas Priest, Budgie, etc. could hardly be described as such. These were the first wavers then along came the second wave, Venom, Raven, Iron Maiden, Tygers of Pan Tang, Samson, Diamond Head, Grim Reaper, Def Leppard, Tokyo Blade, etc. It was a handful of these bands that added that 'shock' value to their lyrics and show, and certainly not all of them.

Motley Crue's first two albums, METAL. Ratt's first EP and first few albums, METAL. Twisted Sister METAL. Many of them progressed into something much more pop rock, but they were hardly poser bands. They were doing something new and they went where the money was, as did bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. It was the hordes of followers that might be called 'posers'.

True (well, the metalness of some of the bands you mentioned is debatable, but they were still close to it).
However, most people I know haven't heard of most of these bands (including UFO, Heep, Leppard, Ratt, Crue and Twisted Sister - I'm talking of mainstream pop music fans, but there's even a lot of "metalheads" who don't even know who Dio was) - and to most of the "pop" people I know, metal = Satan, growling, smashing instruments. Now, considering most people seem to think of '80s metal as something closer to pop music than something that's heavy, when did this change occur?

TheGreatDuck wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

Except that heavy metal didn't start out as "satanic yelling, shouting and noise". The first wave of British Heavy Metal that included such bands as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, UFO, Judas Priest, Budgie, etc. could hardly be described as such. These were the first wavers then along came the second wave, Venom, Raven, Iron Maiden, Tygers of Pan Tang, Samson, Diamond Head, Grim Reaper, Def Leppard, Tokyo Blade, etc. It was a handful of these bands that added that 'shock' value to their lyrics and show, and certainly not all of them.

Motley Crue's first two albums, METAL. Ratt's first EP and first few albums, METAL. Twisted Sister METAL. Many of them progressed into something much more pop rock, but they were hardly poser bands. They were doing something new and they went where the money was, as did bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. It was the hordes of followers that might be called 'posers'.

True (well, the metalness of some of the bands you mentioned is debatable, but they were still close to it).
However, most people I know haven't heard of most of these bands (including UFO, Heep, Leppard, Ratt, Crue and Twisted Sister - I'm talking of mainstream pop music fans, but there's even a lot of "metalheads" who don't even know who Dio was) - and to most of the "pop" people I know, metal = Satan, growling, smashing instruments. Now, considering most people seem to think of '80s metal as something closer to pop music than something that's heavy, when did this change occur?

Quiet Riot, whose record went #1 in the U.S in 1983. This was unheard of back in the day. It made people take notice that metal could be sort of trendy. Then the likes of Def Leppard came along with their mega successful "Pyromania", which was behind Michael Jackson's "Thriller" for the longest time in 83/84. In 1984 RATT had the song "Round & Round" on most radio stations. The same could be said for Twisted Sister's "We're Not Gonna Take it", etc... There were all types of examples, but I believe that Quiet Riot having a #1 album with Metal Health got the ball rolling.

TheGreatDuck wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

Except that heavy metal didn't start out as "satanic yelling, shouting and noise". The first wave of British Heavy Metal that included such bands as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, UFO, Judas Priest, Budgie, etc. could hardly be described as such. These were the first wavers then along came the second wave, Venom, Raven, Iron Maiden, Tygers of Pan Tang, Samson, Diamond Head, Grim Reaper, Def Leppard, Tokyo Blade, etc. It was a handful of these bands that added that 'shock' value to their lyrics and show, and certainly not all of them.

Motley Crue's first two albums, METAL. Ratt's first EP and first few albums, METAL. Twisted Sister METAL. Many of them progressed into something much more pop rock, but they were hardly poser bands. They were doing something new and they went where the money was, as did bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. It was the hordes of followers that might be called 'posers'.

True (well, the metalness of some of the bands you mentioned is debatable, but they were still close to it).
However, most people I know haven't heard of most of these bands (including UFO, Heep, Leppard, Ratt, Crue and Twisted Sister - I'm talking of mainstream pop music fans, but there's even a lot of "metalheads" who don't even know who Dio was) - and to most of the "pop" people I know, metal = Satan, growling, smashing instruments. Now, considering most people seem to think of '80s metal as something closer to pop music than something that's heavy, when did this change occur?

How old are most of the people you know?

...and some examples of thrash being a little friendlier, were when Metallica came out with "One", and the subsequent video that followed. This led to a live performance of the song in February of 89 on the Grammy's where they were introduced by the likes of Billy Crystal. Then came the infamous loss to Jethro Tull, which gained them even more celebrity status. In 1988, Slayer came out with an album that was a drastic departure from Reign In Blood, in that of South of Heaven. I actually remember hearing the word sell out as it pertained to the band (which was ridiculous). Overkill's "Hello From the Gutter" could be seen on Headbanger's Ball all the time, and it was super catchy and some what slick for an Overkill song. Death Angel's Frolic Through the Park although very thrashy, had what I would call a very catchy song in that of "I'm Bored". They also covered the song Cold Gin by KISS, which never hurts, when trying to find one's niche in the genre. I remember seeing "Trial By Fire" by Testament during those days on MTV as well. That next day, I went out to by the tape, and what was affixed to the tape cover? It was a sticker that said, Metallica endorses this record. Back in 1988/89, that was like the ultimate seal of approval! I'm sure there is a ton of other cases that can be made regarding thrash, and it starting to make it's move from its underground status...

thejokeriv wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

ultmetal wrote:

TheGreatDuck wrote:

I'm aware those stuff was marketed as metal in those days - just like people were telling me smurf poo like Slipknot, \"thebandthatshallneverbementionedagain\" or Linkin Park are metal, a couple of years ago when I still wasn't into metal - which made me think metal is crap, until I heard Maiden... The "poser" bands from the '80s and early '90s are much better, though.

Was it really that most people would more probably connect metal with ga-hey-looking band playing poppy and commercial rock, than something evil, satanic and heavy?
And when did actually the public perception of metal change from this to satanic yelling, shouting and noise?

Except that heavy metal didn't start out as "satanic yelling, shouting and noise". The first wave of British Heavy Metal that included such bands as Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, UFO, Judas Priest, Budgie, etc. could hardly be described as such. These were the first wavers then along came the second wave, Venom, Raven, Iron Maiden, Tygers of Pan Tang, Samson, Diamond Head, Grim Reaper, Def Leppard, Tokyo Blade, etc. It was a handful of these bands that added that 'shock' value to their lyrics and show, and certainly not all of them.

Motley Crue's first two albums, METAL. Ratt's first EP and first few albums, METAL. Twisted Sister METAL. Many of them progressed into something much more pop rock, but they were hardly poser bands. They were doing something new and they went where the money was, as did bands like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, etc. It was the hordes of followers that might be called 'posers'.

True (well, the metalness of some of the bands you mentioned is debatable, but they were still close to it).
However, most people I know haven't heard of most of these bands (including UFO, Heep, Leppard, Ratt, Crue and Twisted Sister - I'm talking of mainstream pop music fans, but there's even a lot of "metalheads" who don't even know who Dio was) - and to most of the "pop" people I know, metal = Satan, growling, smashing instruments. Now, considering most people seem to think of '80s metal as something closer to pop music than something that's heavy, when did this change occur?

How old are most of the people you know?

Well, I'm mostly talking of people who are in their teens now - but I don't imagine most of the older people would know much either.
I should note I live in Croatia, so there's a lot of bands that are/were big in USA/UK/Canada that are virtually unknown here (at least to radio-only people) - including Journey, Foreigner, Styx, Judas Priest, Cheap Trick, Grand Funk Railroad, Def Leppard, Heart, Triumph, Blue Oyster Cult, Ted Nugent, Poison, Cinderella, Genesis, REO Speedwagon etc. Of course, there's a lot of rock fans who dug a bit and got to know them, but I don't recall ever hearing any of these being played on the radio (but to tell the truth, I don't really listen to it anyway).

Oh, and it seems you guys got it wrong... I didn't ask when did metal become mainstream, but when did it become associated with the more extreme stuff by the public.

Gap #1

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Well, I'm mostly talking of people who are in their teens now

Gap #2

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I should note I live in Croatia, so there's a lot of bands that are/were big in USA/UK/Canada that are virtually unknown here

Gap #3

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but I don't recall ever hearing any of these being played on the radio (but to tell the truth, I don't really listen to it anyway).

It became associated with more extreme (by today's standards) when the generational gap began to take place. In 1980, Iron Maiden was extreme.

tohostudios wrote:

Yeah, there's nothing "poser" about the first 2 Def Leppard albums. For my money, "On Through The Night" and "High N Dry" are metal albums. After that the poppiness creeps in and eventually takes over.

I agree with you on this. "On Through The Night" doesn't get much love even with Def Leppard, they basically wanted to be popsters!

Wargod

metalinmyveins wrote:

. Overkill's "Hello From the Gutter" could be seen on Headbanger's Ball all the time, and it was super catchy and some what slick for an Overkill song. ...

I remember seeing that video a lot back then and being confused at first because of the James Hetfield look-alike!
Overkill instantly became hated by my friends who were die-hard Metallica fans since Kill Em All came out.

https://youtu.be/IJnbDFtaJAw

mlotek wrote:

metalinmyveins wrote:

. Overkill's "Hello From the Gutter" could be seen on Headbanger's Ball all the time, and it was super catchy and some what slick for an Overkill song. ...

I remember seeing that video a lot back then and being confused at first because of the James Hetfield look-alike!
Overkill instantly became hated by my friends who were die-hard Metallica fans since Kill Em All came out.

https://youtu.be/IJnbDFtaJAw

That's hilarious what you stated about Bobby being the James Hetfield look alike. A buddy of mine had bought the "Taking Over" tape back in the day, which I think that I then dubbed off of him? Anyways, "Under the Influence" really became my first full on assault with the band Overkill. The appeal for me initially was Gustafson and probably because he had some Hetfield like-esque qualities. The one big difference between the two was obviously Bobby was a lead player and Hetfield was a rhythm player. The first similarity was the Gibson explorer, which Hetfield had started playing midway through the Ride The Lightning days. Secondly, was just the look (black on black with high tops/scruffy facial hair/hair). Third, the mannerisms were uncanny (the slight slouch when playing/how he ran on stage/the flipping back of the hair & head banging in general). With that being said, I didn't look at Bobby in a negative way because of that, I just thought it to be cool and complimentary!

The tides of change. A new generation came up and had different ideas and tastes. I don't really think anything killed Metal, it just wasn't the big deal it used to be and the bands and fans got pissed. The bands that really really loved what they did continued on playing for their fans and the rest moved on. A lot of the bands from the 60's didn't make it too far into the 70's and as excepted some of the 70's bands didn't make it too far into the 80's. A lot of the 90's bands are no longer around and conversely some of those 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's bands are still alive and kicking. Good music will always be around. Seriously, how many of those dang heavy metal mty videos could you sit through and would you really want to.

You also have to take into account that the fans were getting older. A fan who was 17 in 1985 for example was probably getting married and starting a family by 1991, therefore he didnt have as much expendable cash to spend on motley crue tickets or the new ozzy album. (and yes, i know there are several people here with families who are still die-hard metal fans, but you get my point)

I don't understand anything about why the industry changed back then. I mean bands who were really commercial started getting really heavy again and then all of a sudden, poof.. they were gone or changed styles. KISS for example released their heaviest album in Revenge! Then went to the shitter again.

I will blame the oversaturization of those pretty boy bands as well as Nirvana and the grunge scene/alternative scene on the decline of metal. Then bands like K-rn and other crap in the industry were trying to push as metal, to keep it away.

I do miss that feeling of good time, feeling happy type stuff though even if I didn't like it back then really.

Lurideath wrote:

I don't understand anything about why the industry changed back then. I mean bands who were really commercial started getting really heavy again and then all of a sudden, poof.. they were gone or changed styles. KISS for example released their heaviest album in Revenge! Then went to the shitter again.

I will blame the oversaturization of those pretty boy bands as well as Nirvana and the grunge scene/alternative scene on the decline of metal. Then bands like K-rn and other crap in the industry were trying to push as metal, to keep it away.

I do miss that feeling of good time, feeling happy type stuff though even if I didn't like it back then really.

+2!