Death Magnetic is awesome!

Fat Freddy wrote:

I still give it a spin every so often, which is more than I can say for ST. ANGER or either of the LOAD combo.

I agree with myself from February of this year.

As for Mglaffas81 - geez, simmer down, Francis.

That's not what I meant - I didn't judge how they play their music, my personal opinion just crept in - What I meant was, that I don't get how people can be so freakin' upset about the style Metallica shiftet to, yet still love bands that play something just as commercial (well, more commercial, IMO) - I believe in a bands'/artists' freedom to write whatever the hell they want. People can come up with all kinds of theories as to WHY they do, the term "sell-out" being the easy way out of course.

SpectreFate wrote:

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people can enjoy pansy LA-rock music like Warrant, Poison and Motley Crue, and then hate on Metallica for releasing something that is maybe mellower than what they used to

For the most part, they don't change their sound, which you have to admit Metallica did in the 90's. As a result, when they come back with a "heavy" album, their credibility is lost to a lot of fans. That's great you've stuck with them, but there are some fans that have moved on to other bands and feel that Metallica have jumped the shark. It's all opinion. Don't get your knickers in a tangle.

So if a band changes styles, they lose "credibility"? Jeez, now that's just dumb - I don't think Metallica give two sh!ts about what some ex-fans think of their "credibility" - of course I admit they shiftet sounds, that's what I am defending. I realize it's all opinion, but opinion and insult are two SEPERATE things - if you can voice your opinion in a civilized manner, do it - just don't start insulting an artist for releasing something you may not be particularly happy about - that's just immature.

Mglaffas81 wrote:

don't start insulting an artist for releasing something you may not be particularly happy about

Not for nothin' but that's kinda the entire point of the internet.... "I don't like this (TV show, album, band, movie, etc.), so I will now share my hatred with the entire world!"

Fat Freddy wrote:

Mglaffas81 wrote:

don't start insulting an artist for releasing something you may not be particularly happy about

Not for nothin' but that's kinda the entire point of the internet.... "I don't like this (TV show, album, band, movie, etc.), so I will now share my hatred with the entire world!"

I know my dear Freddy - that's why I like this forum so much - we can voice our opinion, without having it turn into some stupid insult-fest, well mostly at least. I just got a little pissed about some bitter members still crying about Metallica not turning out the way they wanted them to - Just don't hate a band and degrade everything they do, just because you don't like what they release - okay, I'm repeating myself now, You get it

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we can voice our opinion, without having it turn into some stupid insult-fest

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bitter members still crying about Metallica

You're backtracking here.

The way I see it, Metallica were perpetually drunk 20-somethings when they wrote all the music that most die-hards cherish. All they had to do was drink, tour, and make albums.

Flash forward a little, after 4 albums of fast, thrash, technical stuff they wanted to simplify and groove a little. The black album let them do that.

The 30-something Metalli-guys dug the groove, so they stuck with it for several years. They had nothing to prove to anyone.

Here comes St. Anger, still they have nothing to prove to anyone but themselves. Can the 40-something Metalli-guys still write long, thrashy, aggressive music? Let's see....it was loud, aggresssive, long-winded and abrasive and most fans hated it.

Now pushing 50, the guys put out something with all the ambition of St. Anger but more focused (since prior to St. Anger, it was something over 10+ years since they had tried to write that way). Better, but for me it was still kinda weak.

Bottom line remains this - none of us, musician or not, is qualified to speak on the amount of "heart and soul" has been put into something. Metallica as a band is 30 years old. Their track record speaks for itself. They have nothing to prove and can do whatever they want. We don't have to like it and we don't have to buy it. But to dissect it past "I don't like it" or "I think it's boring" is an exercise in futility.

AND -

It has nothing to do with commericalism. Comparing someone enjoying Warrant to someone not enjoying 90s Metallica makes no sense.

sheesh....you are acting like I ran over your dog.


IMHO If you go see a band onstage or listen to a cd. You should be able to experience and hopefuy relate to where thier head is at and hopefully touch base on some emotional level with what they are doing. It is easily determined if a band is phoning it in or being sincere when they are onstage. Ya don't need to actualy ask them, "gee how/what were your thoughts when you wrote, recorded or performed this song or that song"

IMHO, the entire dynamic of Metallica changed after the Black Album and following tour. I coud live if it was merely the style of the songs. The Back Album is a good illustration of that, but to me it seems that with the influx of major dollars....certain things took a back seat that are vital and of major importance for me to enjoy music by band and not base it on nostalgia, popularity. and/or fanatacism. Just read my other posts in this thread and you'll pretty much surmise what those things are. Like Brian said, it's just an opinion. Based on my personal experiences and observations.

I can't speak for everyone, but for mysef, the people I attend concerts with, played in bands with and listened to records, tapes and cds over the years since 1971.The music was experienced in some sort of emotional level between the band and the listener. That is a fairy simple concept to grasp onto. It either does something to and/for you or it doesn't.

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It either does something to and/for you or it doesn't.

Which was my entire point.

Shawn's narrative is leaving out the $$$$ factor, which must have been a huge consideration in what style the band would decide to take.

I find it hard to believe their "Load" musical style/image just happened to be closer to what grunge and popular rock bands were doing at the time just by pure coincidence.

I also think a big factor is that they are older, married with families, and they simply didn't live only for music any more. Their newer material strongly seems to indicate that music is more of a "if I get around to it".

Bands ALWAYS have something to prove. It's never acceptable for any musical act to rest on its laurels and live solely off the accomplishments of the past. It has to always be about performing good shows and writing good songs in the present. That mentality is probably what led METALLICA to think their new stuff is so great.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Shawn's narrative is leaving out the $$$$ factor, which must have been a huge consideration in what style the band would decide to take.

I find it hard to believe their "Load" musical style/image just happened to be closer to what grunge and popular rock bands were doing at the time just by pure coincidence.

I also think a big factor is that they are older, married with families, and they simply didn't live only for music any more. Their newer material strongly seems to indicate that music is more of a "if I get around to it".

I don't think money was a consideration because after the black album and subsequent tours they had more money than God. I don't recall any Grunge bands in the 90s wearing eyeliner, Cuban pimp suits and smoking cigars...they were all desheveld, sloppy dressers with bad hair. "Until It Sleeps" had a tiny, tiny bit of an Alice In Chains vibe, but AIC aren't really Grunge either. The riffs on Load & Reload were still pretty frickin' heavy and grooving ala black album, more English blues based, IMO, than Grunge. IMO, they simply could be afforded the luxury of doing whatever they wanted at whatever pace they wanted...which was why the Load sessions dragged on for years.

I completely agree about the family thing...they are in the position to do whatever they want, whenever they want, and if they want to drop off the kids at school, hit the Starbucks, and roll into the studio after lunch they can...and will.

You can call it grunge or 90s rock or whatever, but it was clear they were trying to be as commercial as possible for that market. They weren't about to play death metal and marginalize themselves, they were aiming for the popular hard rock demographic of that time.

I don't fault them for making music a lesser priority in their lives, but in the 90s I heard a lot more metal bands that were hungry and writing much better material than they were and so I left METALLICA behind.

Temple of Blood wrote:

You can call it grunge or 90s rock or whatever, but it was clear they were trying to be as commercial as possible for that market. They weren't about to play death metal and marginalize themselves, they were aiming for the popular hard rock demographic of that time.

I don't fault them for making music a lesser priority in their lives, but in the 90s I heard a lot more metal bands that were hungry and writing much better material than they were and so I left METALLICA behind.

They were definitely aiming for as wide an audience as possible. They could not sacrifice the 10 million new Metallica fans who came on in 1990 by making a Technical Speed/Thrash epic.

Newer bands are usually more hungry than veteran bands anyhow...they are striving to achieve, in many cases, what the veteran bands already have. Johnny Reznick from The Goo Goo Dolls once said "There no going back to the garage..." and I think he's right. Once you cross that line into mega star status, there's no going back...it alters your entire perspective on everything.

I can insult an artist all I want. I can question an artist's integrity all I want. They produce a product and I spend money on it, therefore I can voice my opinion on it. It goes with the territory of being a band that sells a product. Metallica is a polarizing band because of the various postures and attitudes they have taken which seem to conveniently coincide with whatever happens to be popular at the moment. They also happen to be a band that produced three spectacular albums. Death Magnetic is not one of them.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Johnny Reznick from The Goo Goo Dolls once said "There no going back to the garage..." and I think he's right. Once you cross that line into mega star status, there's no going back...it alters your entire perspective on everything.

Absolutely. That was my first point above.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Johnny Reznick from The Goo Goo Dolls once said "There no going back to the garage..." and I think he's right. Once you cross that line into mega star status, there's no going back...it alters your entire perspective on everything.

Absolutely. That was my first point above.

Right, and I think St. Anger, and to a lesser drgree Death Magnetic, are an example of that. They tried to go back. The band is like "It's heavy, it's fast, it's agressive, the songs are long...it's what you wanted" to which most of the fans responded "No, it's not".

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Right, and I think St. Anger, and to a lesser drgree Death Magnetic, are an example of that. They tried to go back. The band is like "It's heavy, it's fast, it's agressive, the songs are long...it's what you wanted" to which most of the fans responded "No, it's not".

Agreed.

I think this has been interesting thread, and at one point or another various bands have been accussed of going for the almighty dollar, selling out, not having musical intergrity, and I don't think I have seen a band has hammered for this supposed sin then Metallica and to a certain extent Def Leppard.

Queen was accussed this during their 1980 to 1982 phase (Hot Space, The Game) Kiss during the 70's for Dynasty and Unmasked, Alice Cooper for Trash, Deep Purple for House of Blue Light, both Van Halen and Rainbow during their tenure with Hagar and Joe Lynn Turner, etc

I think in all these cases, including Metallica, they actually liked the 'newer' direction they were pursuing, saw as a challenge maybe to adapt their style to a different style etc.

I actually have liked all of Metallica's post black album material with the exception of "ReLoad', and I loved 'Death Magentic', did it have the magic of their earlier material? Perhaps not but it was a great album IMO and it was nice return to roots album .

It's not my favorite album by any stretch, but I enjoyed Death Magnetic when it first came out quite a bit. I'm sure I will revisit it over the years and will enjoy it again.

I like Death Magnetic. Its certainly good to see them going back in the right direction.

What shocked me, was hearing part of "Load" for the first time since the 1990's...and coming to the realization that while it doesn't really sound like Metallica...it's got some good songs on it. Especially "Bleeding Me" which I had forgotten about entirely....great little doom riff at the end.

I heard part of an LP re-release and the production quality was amazing too.

Go ahead and throw eggs, I can take it.

detuned wrote:

What shocked me, was hearing part of "Load" for the first time since the 1990's...and coming to the realization that while it doesn't really sound like Metallica...it's got some good songs on it.

I heard part of an LP re-release and the production quality was amazing too.

Go ahead and throw eggs, I can take it.

Load is a good album, Reload not so much

Maybe on the surface it appears I'm one of those Metallica haters, but I'm not. I enjoyed THE BLACK ALBUM, and to some extent LOAD and RELOAD, but it ended there. Heck, DEATH MAGNETIC was a first day buy for me. It just didn't click with me.

Joe wrote:

Maybe on the surface it appears I'm one of those Metallica haters, but I'm not. I enjoyed THE BLACK ALBUM, and to some extent LOAD and RELOAD, but it ended there. Heck, DEATH MAGNETIC was a first day buy for me. It just didn't click with me.

I think its one of those like it or really dont like albums. There are not a lot of people who are in between.

exact33 wrote:

Joe wrote:

Maybe on the surface it appears I'm one of those Metallica haters, but I'm not. I enjoyed THE BLACK ALBUM, and to some extent LOAD and RELOAD, but it ended there. Heck, DEATH MAGNETIC was a first day buy for me. It just didn't click with me.

I think its one of those like it or really dont like albums. There are not a lot of people who are in between.

I took my son to see this tour. When the new DM songs were blended with the classics, they sounded good. But I can't get into the album...weird.