Death Magnetic is awesome!

I bet I could take some digital "scissors" to Death Magnetic, trim off the fat and make it a much tighter and more focused record.

But not unless someone from Metallica pays me to do it.

The Black Album happened because of Bob Rock.

Load and Reload happened because one of the main songwriters were busy listening to Oasis, while the other one was exploring country music.

Bottom line: The Metallica boys stopped listening to all metal, all the time and they dared to let more influences be heard in thier music.

Many bands I've talked to over the years have told me that they purposely don't listen to bands that play the same kind of music they do. They don't want to pull influences from their peers and all end up sounding the same. So they'll listen to classical or jazz or anything that's as different from their own sound as they can find.

Great quote from Mikeal Akerfelt (Opeth) on this subject:

"You don't write a great metal song by listening to an Accept album for inspiration, you write a great metal song while listening to something like Marvin Gaye."

detuned wrote:

Many bands I've talked to over the years have told me that they purposely don't listen to bands that play the same kind of music they do. They don't want to pull influences from their peers and all end up sounding the same. So they'll listen to classical or jazz or anything that's as different from their own sound as they can find.

Great quote from Mikeal Akerfelt (Opeth) on this subject:

"You don't write a great metal song by listening to an Accept album for inspiration, you write a great metal song while listening to something like Marvin Gaye."

I concur with this statement.

Opeth has never written a great metal song.

METALLICA wrote plenty of great metal songs while listening to predominantly metal bands.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Opeth has never written a great metal song.

METALLICA wrote plenty of great metal songs while listening to predominantly metal bands.

Point 1 - I do not agree.

Point 2 - as far back as I can remember, Metallica always talked about listening to other stuff besides Metal...punk, southern rock, country, Nick Cave, etc...

But whatever...it doesn't really matter.

Like I said before, it doesn't make sense that music fans can mature, let their tastes evolve, mellow with age, but a musician cannot.

I wish Metallica would go back to doing more stuff like Load and Reload, because that was honest music. Death Magnetic is not. That album shows a band trying to recreate something they can't create anymore. They did a good job of it, but nothing on that album feels natural; it's all forced, choppy ideas spliced together.

Temple of Blood wrote:

Opeth has never written a great metal song.

Your opinion.

and as usual one I cannot agree with.

But that's expected.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

Point 2 - as far back as I can remember, Metallica always talked about listening to other stuff besides Metal...punk, southern rock, country, Nick Cave, etc...

But whatever...it doesn't really matter.

I seem to remember a Guitar magazine article where Kirk talked about listening to Sly & The Family Stone, King Crimson, U2 and a bunch of other "non-metal" bands and this was circa Master Of Puppets era.

detuned wrote:

I seem to remember a Guitar magazine article where Kirk talked about listening to Sly & The Family Stone, King Crimson, U2 and a bunch of other "non-metal" bands and this was circa Master Of Puppets era.

And he had very few songwriting contributions aside from his guitar solos. If you can hear some U2 in his solos then I will be surprised.

detuned wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Opeth has never written a great metal song.

Your opinion.

and as usual one I cannot agree with.

But that's expected.

Even if you think they write great songs, "metal" is only one component of their prog rock/death metal hybrid style.

I really don't think he could write a great straight-up metal song.

How many great metal songs of yours do I know?

0

Temple of Blood wrote:

I really don't think he could write a great straight-up metal song.

detuned wrote:

How many great metal songs of yours do I know?

0

Sigh...

And this is why I'm baffled that so many of you call ToB the asshole. I'm not saying you're one, detuned, don't get me wrong here. But so many of you attack him right out the gate and then complain when he swings back.

Yeah, dude is opinionated in the most rigid manner, but come on! We're discussing music here. We all have those same kinds of opinions, thinking others are flat out wrong, even if we don't defend those opinions in the same manner.

I just don't get it. Anyway, as you were...

Temple of Blood wrote:

detuned wrote:

Temple of Blood wrote:

Opeth has never written a great metal song.

Your opinion.

and as usual one I cannot agree with.

But that's expected.

Even if you think they write great songs, "metal" is only one component of their prog rock/death metal hybrid style.

I really don't think he could write a great straight-up metal song.

I am not sure what you refer to as a straight metal song ( traditional metal like Priest or Sabbath?) but they do great job in combining their various influences IMO.

manny wrote:

I am not sure what you refer to as a straight metal song ( traditional metal like Priest or Sabbath?) but they do great job in combining their various influences IMO.

Right, basically that's what I mean. Just regular traditional metal, thrash metal, death metal, or doom metal.

Eyesore wrote:

detuned wrote:

How many great metal songs of yours do I know?

0

Sigh...

And this is why I'm baffled that so many of you call ToB the asshole. I'm not saying you're one, detuned, don't get me wrong here. But so many of you attack him right out the gate and then complain when he swings back.

Yeah, dude is opinionated in the most rigid manner, but come on! We're discussing music here. We all have those same kinds of opinions, thinking others are flat out wrong, even if we don't defend those opinions in the same manner.

I just don't get it. Anyway, as you were...

If only we were all so even-tempered.

Death Magnetic is tricky to discuss... I've never been a fan of bands trying to "go back to their roots". I love it when bands take a new, fresh, great sounding approach to their music (like Blind Guardian's newer albums). However, I don't see Metallica as doing that; I think they tried that with Load, Re-Load, and St. Anger, and it just didn't work. They took a new direction, and I'm not the one to say whether they enjoyed it as musicians or not, but even their most die-hard fans say it was an "acquired taste". I'd say Death Magnetic is just them trying to get back to where they once were right after the black album, but it just seems too stale for me. When you have a song that is the third of its kind, you've got a problem. So, to sum it up, I agree with one of Shawn's earlier comments, that it's not necessarily bad, just boring.

In the 80's I was the biggest Metallica fanboy on the planet. The black album is okay, though I don't own it,or listen to it for that matter. Death Magnetic is uninspired garbage, the biggest problem is Hetfield's "singing" or lack thereof. When he was basically shouting (first 4 albums), nobody in thrash had such an awesome voice.Go back and listen to "Ride the Lightning"- James' voice sounds awesome.For some reason he thinks he's a crooner like Frank Sinatra or something-instead of doing what he does best.
Nobody in thrash sold out like Metallica did,Mustaine came close, but not to that magnitude.
Sodom and the like kept the flame alive, they're the ones that deserve our attention, not a prima donna band from Los Angeles who sold out the thrash scene for the money.Metallica inadvertantly destroyed the original thrash scene and for that they desreve our never ending scorn. You want to play music other than metal? That's great-but you should have changed your name to Alternativica or Grungica or whatever.
Metallica means nothing in the scene anymore accept for a few nostalgic fanboys and some equally clueless youngsters. Metal has evolved and passed them by, bands such as Sigh, Immortal, Vektor, Opeth,Into Eternity etc- all are much more fun to listen to.

Carry on "metalheads".

I'm pretty 'meh' on any era of Metallica. Just not my cup o' tea.

I think every Metallica albums is at least OK (except for St. Anger) but none of 'em really do much for me. If the band starts trading in the glam/sleaze genre, please let me know.

Until then I'll just amuse myself with the "metalhead" arguments in this thread.

BTW, how long had this thread been dormant before someone resurrected it? I'm too lazy to dig back through it but I know this thing is pretty old. I'm always amazed at how much passion Metallica and Megadeth seem to spark.

I really liked "My Apocalypse" when it first came out as a single... I tried listening to Death Magnetic the other day, but I just couldn't do it. I would rather listen to the Black album or even Load/Reload.

Eyesore, you are correct, I was out of line.

TOB, I'm sorry, I made it personal when it shouldn't have been. I was being a d!ck.

Now we can go back to discussing whatever the hell we were talking about in this thread.

I'm going to go find something intoxicating...

tohostudios wrote:

BTW, how long had this thread been dormant before someone resurrected it? I'm too lazy to dig back through it but I know this thing is pretty old. I'm always amazed at how much passion Metallica and Megadeth seem to spark.

Made in February, dragged up and lost again in March, and dragged up again today with some pretty passionate talk.

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Joe wrote:

Maybe on the surface it appears I'm one of those Metallica haters, but I'm not. I enjoyed THE BLACK ALBUM, and to some extent LOAD and RELOAD, but it ended there. Heck, DEATH MAGNETIC was a first day buy for me. It just didn't click with me.

I think its one of those like it or really dont like albums. There are not a lot of people who are in between.

I took my son to see this tour. When the new DM songs were blended with the classics, they sounded good. But I can't get into the album...weird.

I can see that. Ill normally give a new metallica album a listen without a lot of expectations but I cannot stand the whole 'they have gone back to their roots' posts anymore - a lot of bands say that now to sell albums...

Okay,I'm going to give my last opinion about Death Magnetic. (aside from maybe remastering it if I get bored enough).

Many people have discussed how it feels cut and pasted together, not having a natural flow. I would describe it as "forced".

Now, here is my opinion why that happened.

Rick Rubin asked Metallica how they used to write albums before Bob Rock came along, what their process was...because Bob Rock had changed their process completely over the course of a long period of time. They used to bring in riff tapes, sit and listen to them, take notes and figure out which pieces went together and they'd build a song from those riffs. A widely used method.

So Rubin just told them "do that", throw away everything Bob Rock taught you, pretend it's 1986 again and write the album "like you used to". Then Rubin took off and left the band alone for an entire year doing just that.

The problem is, you can't just "go back" to an older writing style by flipping a switch. If you've been doing things differently for a decade, you've adapted and changed and the old way isn't comfortable anymore. Especially if you have any personnel changes in the band.

But Metallica followed Rubin's instruction to the letter and forced themselves to write the album that way...just like it was 1986. But Rubin didn't help them with the process, didn't provide them with any real guidance, instruction or inspiration....because he doesn't do anything at all.

So in the end, it sounds forced because it was. Bad instructions from a lazy producer and a band that did the best they could with that particular situation.

What Rubin should have done, was to find out how they are comfortable NOW, how would they LIKE to write an album now? That's how you get a good performance, you put the musician in a situation of as much comfort as possible, you assist and prod a little when needed, but for the most part you sit back and let the guys be the guys. It comes out sounding real that way...because it is. And you don't leave a band alone for a YEAR to write an album, not unless that band is Yes or Pink Floyd or somebody like that...for a good solid metal album, it better not take a damn year, in my experience...the faster it's done, the better.

So, I consider it a lost opportunity, then compounded by a horrible production.