I was WRONG about Rage for Order...

That song "Gonna Get Close To You" was such a bomb. You know they thought their image plus that single was gonna take them to the top and it's funny to me how it didn't pan out.
The lyrics to that song were such a rip off of the trendy "Every Breath You Take" theme. Every songwriter probably thought they were Sting in the mid-80s.

Lots of other great songs on that album, and "Walk in the Shadows" is a 10/10.

"Gonna Get Close To You" is actually a remake of the Dalbello song. It was written around the time of EBYT, but I suppose it could have been a trendy ploy to be Sting-esque.

James B. wrote:

Shawn, here is a some visual aid to convey my point further



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Go ahead and say the third one isn't a drastic change from the other two ? sheesh

My point is that in 1986 even Maiden and Priest were wearing spandex and puffy shirts and frosting/teasing thier hair...

James B. wrote:

Shawn, here is a some visual aid to convey my point further



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Go ahead and say the third one isn't a drastic change from the other two ? sheesh

Looks like the same band to me.

Really though there was obviously a drastic change anyone can see that. They went from an Iron Maiden type look to Princes' back up band. The music was great though and its just all for "The show". The obviously didn't stay like that for too long, since on Mindcrime they sort of went back to what they used to look like, but they wore stuff that went with the story line of the music. It's kind of like Alice Cooper how he works in an act with his songs.

I don't think they were necessarily trying to fit in with anything but just trying to get more exposure to the band and make people think, whoa whats going on with this band. They never fit in with Glam bands because they were party music and they certainly didn't fit in with the Thrash crowd. They were just trying to make their own statement. An odd one but none the less different from what other metal bands were doing at the time.

Quote :

I don't think they were necessarily trying to fit in with anything but just trying to get more exposure to the band and make people think, whoa whats going on with this band. They never fit in with Glam bands because they were party music and they certainly didn't fit in with the Thrash crowd. They were just trying to make their own statement. An odd one but none the less different from what other metal bands were doing at the time.

This, I agree with...

Phoenix Reign Drummer wrote:

James B. wrote:

Shawn, here is a some visual aid to convey my point further



to



to



Go ahead and say the third one isn't a drastic change from the other two ? sheesh

Looks like the same band to me.

Really though there was obviously a drastic change anyone can see that. They went from an Iron Maiden type look to Princes' back up band. The music was great though and its just all for "The show". The obviously didn't stay like that for too long, since on Mindcrime they sort of went back to what they used to look like, but they wore stuff that went with the story line of the music. It's kind of like Alice Cooper how he works in an act with his songs.

I don't think they were necessarily trying to fit in with anything but just trying to get more exposure to the band and make people think, whoa whats going on with this band. They never fit in with Glam bands because they were party music and they certainly didn't fit in with the Thrash crowd. They were just trying to make their own statement. An odd one but none the less different from what other metal bands were doing at the time.

at least its not the loincloth look...

exact-ly

James B. wrote:

Shawn, here is a some visual aid to convey my point further



to



to



Go ahead and say the third one isn't a drastic change from the other two ? sheesh

It's not. It's hairspray and a little color in the leather.

This is what makes me laugh about fans. When bands change their image in any way, they've sold out; clearly having changed their image to fool people into thinking they're something they're not or to jump onto some sort of look-based bandwagon. But when the fans change their look...well, that's just natural.

The thing is, it is natural. We all change the way we look, and it's affected by the culture that surrounds. But bands can't do it. Rather, certain bands can't do it. It all depends on whether or not the music is acceptable to the fans' ears. If the music doesn't change that much (Blackie Lawless and W.A.S.P., for instance), then fans will be okay—often even justify—the change in outer appearance.

Eyesore wrote:

This is what makes me laugh about fans. When bands change their image in any way, they've sold out; clearly having changed their image to fool people into thinking they're something they're not or to jump onto some sort of look-based bandwagon. But when the fans change their look...well, that's just natural.

The thing is, it is natural. We all change the way we look, and it's affected by the culture that surrounds. But bands can't do it. Rather, certain bands can't do it. It all depends on whether or not the music is acceptable to the fans' ears. If the music doesn't change that much (Blackie Lawless and W.A.S.P., for instance), then fans will be okay—often even justify—the change in outer appearance.

thats why i dont care a whole lot about the image stuff. For me - its the music. There is an element of image but unless your really really obnoxious - its the music. Metal fans get their panties in a bunch about this look or that look, its about the music

exact33 wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

This is what makes me laugh about fans. When bands change their image in any way, they've sold out; clearly having changed their image to fool people into thinking they're something they're not or to jump onto some sort of look-based bandwagon. But when the fans change their look...well, that's just natural.

The thing is, it is natural. We all change the way we look, and it's affected by the culture that surrounds. But bands can't do it. Rather, certain bands can't do it. It all depends on whether or not the music is acceptable to the fans' ears. If the music doesn't change that much (Blackie Lawless and W.A.S.P., for instance), then fans will be okay—often even justify—the change in outer appearance.

thats why i dont care a whole lot about the image stuff. For me - its the music. There is an element of image but unless your really really obnoxious - its the music. Metal fans get their panties in a bunch about this look or that look, its about the music

Yup. Focus on the music.

Plus, Geoff Tate has always been a bit of a fruitcake. Dude's wearing knee-high boots, pink spandex pants and leather suspenders in the "Nightrider" video. Not very metal at all. Pink pants ruined Billy Squire's career! Haha. But that illustrates precisely what I was saying. No one cared about that then or now.

Eyesore wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

This is what makes me laugh about fans. When bands change their image in any way, they've sold out; clearly having changed their image to fool people into thinking they're something they're not or to jump onto some sort of look-based bandwagon. But when the fans change their look...well, that's just natural.

The thing is, it is natural. We all change the way we look, and it's affected by the culture that surrounds. But bands can't do it. Rather, certain bands can't do it. It all depends on whether or not the music is acceptable to the fans' ears. If the music doesn't change that much (Blackie Lawless and W.A.S.P., for instance), then fans will be okay—often even justify—the change in outer appearance.

thats why i dont care a whole lot about the image stuff. For me - its the music. There is an element of image but unless your really really obnoxious - its the music. Metal fans get their panties in a bunch about this look or that look, its about the music

Yup. Focus on the music.

Plus, Geoff Tate has always been a bit of a fruitcake. Dude's wearing knee-high boots, pink spandex pants and leather suspenders in the "Nightrider" video. Not very metal at all. Pink pants ruined Billy Squire's career! Haha. But that illustrates precisely what I was saying. No one cared about that then or now.

All very well stated....

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

James B. wrote:

Shawn, here is a some visual aid to convey my point further



to



to



Go ahead and say the third one isn't a drastic change from the other two ? sheesh

My point is that in 1986 even Maiden and Priest were wearing spandex and puffy shirts and frosting/teasing thier hair...

Thanks for proving my point. If Maiden, Priest, whoever were wearing whatever as an image to market themselves doesn't that kinda/sorta make it a "Bandwagon"

My only opinion that differs than yours is that they jumped on the image bandwagon to market themselves. Regardless if they looked like Maiden or Poison. IMHO The "Rage" image looks like the offspring of Flock of Seaguls and Ruby Slippers.

In the end the music is what matters,

James B. wrote:

Shawn Of Fire wrote:

James B. wrote:

Shawn, here is a some visual aid to convey my point further



to



to



Go ahead and say the third one isn't a drastic change from the other two ? sheesh

My point is that in 1986 even Maiden and Priest were wearing spandex and puffy shirts and frosting/teasing thier hair...

Thanks for proving my point. If Maiden, Priest, whoever were wearing whatever as an image to market themselves doesn't that kinda/sorta make it a "Bandwagon"

My only opinion that differs than yours is that they jumped on the image bandwagon to market themselves. Regardless if they looked like Maiden or Poison. IMHO The "Rage" image looks like the offspring of Flock of Seaguls and Ruby Slippers.

In the end the music is what matters,

I proved nothing. You stated your opinion and I stated mine. It was evolution like anything else...bands in other genres besides Metal were doing the 80s thing...it wasn't anything exclusive to Metal nor was it a case of " hey guys, lets wear more eyeliner to sell more records".

Like you and others have said, it's the music that matters...and all my respect and love for RFO is based solely on the music it contains.

James B. wrote:

Thanks for proving my point. If Maiden, Priest, whoever were wearing whatever as an image to market themselves doesn't that kinda/sorta make it a "Bandwagon"

My only opinion that differs than yours is that they jumped on the image bandwagon to market themselves. Regardless if they looked like Maiden or Poison. IMHO The "Rage" image looks like the offspring of Flock of Seaguls and Ruby Slippers.

In the end the music is what matters,

Explain the pink pants then.

I don't what happened ?

All I said in my opinion, two things...

1) Queensryche jumped on the image band wagon to sell more records
(regardless of who else was doing it or not and if the label requested it)

2)The image on "Rage" was adrastic change from what they previosly had.
(going from looking like dudes to chicks is pretty drastic in my book)

I don't know what happened either but that 'glam' image did n't even last the entire Rage with Order tour.

Good 'Ryche album for sure though not as good as the first offerings. However, my favorite will always be Empire. Though most prefer the earlier albums, they were also listening to them from the begining (I didn't become a fan til 91-92). Promise Land is a decent one but everyting else is crap (I barely listened to any of them more than once). However, I didn't totally hate American Solider but I haven't been motivated to listen to it again. And as far as their past image, the music is always what counts.

Eyesore wrote:

James B. wrote:

Thanks for proving my point. If Maiden, Priest, whoever were wearing whatever as an image to market themselves doesn't that kinda/sorta make it a "Bandwagon"

My only opinion that differs than yours is that they jumped on the image bandwagon to market themselves. Regardless if they looked like Maiden or Poison. IMHO The "Rage" image looks like the offspring of Flock of Seaguls and Ruby Slippers.

In the end the music is what matters,

Explain the pink pants then.

So that the sexy foxes can see his bulge better.

I started this thread because of the MUSIC on RFO... However I didn't mention their look but it was a bit different fer sure....

Rockenfield's hair is hysterical....

mr.electric39 wrote:

I started this thread because of the MUSIC on RFO... However I didn't mention their look but it was a bit different fer sure....

Rockenfield's hair is hysterical....

That fault is mine for the rabbit trail. Seems that going from looking like dudes to chicks is not jumping on the image bandwagon and not a drastic change in appearance.

oh well, I am like you bro...didn't care much for the lp then but enjoy it now.

Laterz

I was 18 when this came out and it was a dramatic change from the previous albums. I really liked several of the songs though and don't remember the image change but I am sure it was a big deal.

I am in the minority but I am lukewarm at best on Mindcrime (and virtually all concept albums for that matter - if I want a story I'll read a book,thanks)

I'm not a big fan of concepts either, mainly because I don't have the attention span for them. If the songs don't stand on their own then I get bored pretty quickly.

As for "Rage", I think that side two is a lot stronger than side one (yes, I know it's a concept).

Rage for Order isn't a concept album, in terms of storytelling. It's more theme-based.

You guys ever heard this?



Absolutely killer! The solo is kinda wack, though.

I meant that the last three tracks comprise a mini-concept on their own. This is just what I've heard numerous times...