What if Metallica never sold out?

Everyone thinks that Metallica has sold out, including me. But sometimes I wonder what would have happened if they didn't sell out.

What would they have gone on to sound like? How would things be different?

In my opinion, if Metallica never sold out, I think that after ...And Justice For All, they would have put out one final thrash album, and after that, probably would have gone in a groove/post-thrash direction, like many other thrash bands of the 80s did in the early 90s (Forbidden, Sepultura, etc.). Think of them doing something in the style of Vulgar Display of Power-era Pantera, or Burn My Eyes-era Machine Head. They would still remain one of metal's top selling acts, selling about 5,000,000-1,000,000 copies of each album.

Had they stuck with the heavier stuff, regardless if it was thrash or not, the old fans would have respected the change in sound instead of ridiculed them, even if they disliked the new direction. Those who disliked it would say, "The new album isn't that good, but at least they're not playing grunge", or "It's disappointing. I'll still see them when they tour, though", instead of "Sellouts!" and whatnot.

Anyways, what do you think would have happened if Metallica didn't sell out?

I have never felt that they sold out. I think a more mainstream-minded producer kind of led them astray, but I don't think the band consciously decided to sellout. I think they were fragile at the point of the black album, they'd reached that stage where a lot of bands kind of switch gears because the band members have gotten older, grown more mature, and have a different perspective on life. I don't think any album after Justice would have been like the first four, regardless of who produced it.

And speaking of Machine Head, I got the promo for The Blackening earlier this week, and it is sick! Killer, killer album! When it's heavy, it's heavier and faster than anything on Burn My Eyes.

what if, what if... who really cares about "what if"? it is "what is" that actually matters.

@ Eyesore: yeah, The Blackening is going to be a great album. i liked "through Ashes Of Empires too.

[quote="mc666"]what if, what if... who really cares about "what if"? it is "what is" that actually matters.

Yeah. They are what they are .They don't see it as selling out ,they see it as putting out what's current and relevant to today's mainstream.Whatever it is, I don't like it (but apparently a lot of people do). The last release of theirs I do thoroughly enjoy is the Black album (and Garage Inc of course)

What if they stayed a thrash/speed band? They were selling well when Master came out. They would have kept selling well for a while, in the 90s they would have sold alot less like all the other bands playing the same style. Watching Some King Of Monster, I think they only thing that keeps them together is money. I guess they would have broken up and called it a day, when sales were poor in the 90s. Who knows though, maybe it is the millions that made them the people they are. Don't know the kind of guys they were back in the early 80s, besides being hard partiers

Has Metallica sold out? You bet they did. Any band that plays and gets paid for it is selling out. Any band that signs a record deal, sells a t-shirt, puts a CD out for people to buy is selling out. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Everybody wants money, so do I.

In terms of musical direction have they "sold out"? I don't think so. I actually enjoy the Black Album alot. I know that's a sin with most hardcore Metallica fans, but there ya go. It's after that with Load, Reload, and St. Anger where I think the new material was pretty lame. I don't think they sold out though. Made some bad fashion statements (Load)? Yes. Made some less-than-quality music (post-Black)? IMO, yes. But they were just trying to stay relevant and survive. Creatively or finanicially, it sometimes succeeds and sometimes fails depending on the band. Even I don't like a band's music and may wish they kept their "old" sound, I can't begrudge someone for wanting to still make popular music beacuse popular = $$$.

I agree with a previous post that stated it they had continued their usual thrash ways, they wouldn't be as big as they are today. Their popularity would've waned, thanks to grunge, alongside all the other thrash bands.

I like Load and Reload. I think the only song I really dislike on those two albums is "Ronnie." My problems with those album is the name it bears—Metallica. Really, they took a sharp left turn on those albums. I think they should have gone out under a different name.

St. Anger is just complete smurf poo. As much of a collector I am, I've still never bought St. Anger—even used. I just can't stand that album. There are some great moments spattered throughout, but essentially that album is 95% pure crap. However, watching the Some Kind Of Monster documentary, I think that album may have been necessary for the band to carry on. I guess we'll see on this next album if that was even worth it.

Eyesore wrote:

I like Load and Reload. I think the only song I really dislike on those two albums is "Ronnie." My problems with those album is the name it bears—Metallica. Really, they took a sharp left turn on those albums. I think they should have gone out under a different name.

St. Anger is just complete smurf poo. As much of a collector I am, I've still never bought St. Anger—even used. I just can't stand that album. There are some great moments spattered throughout, but essentially that album is 95% pure crap. However, watching the Some Kind Of Monster documentary, I think that album may have been necessary for the band to carry on. I guess we'll see on this next album if that was even worth it.

Much like GNR's Use Your Illusion albums, I think if you took Load and Reload and cherry-picked the songs and placed them on ONE album, you'd have a pretty darn good CD.

Instead, Load and Reload are just mediocre, in my opinion. There's quite a few songs from both that I like, but about half on each album is really bad.

St. Anger... Man, I bought that the first week it came out and hated it. It was nice of them to get heavy again though, so points for effort, but zero for execution. I think I listened to it maybe twice, three times at the most.

Metal Misfit wrote:

Has Metallica sold out? You bet they did. Any band that plays and gets paid for it is selling out. Any band that signs a record deal, sells a t-shirt, puts a CD out for people to buy is selling out. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Everybody wants money, so do I.

In terms of musical direction have they "sold out"? I don't think so. I actually enjoy the Black Album alot. I know that's a sin with most hardcore Metallica fans, but there ya go. It's after that with Load, Reload, and St. Anger where I think the new material was pretty lame. I don't think they sold out though. Made some bad fashion statements (Load)? Yes. Made some less-than-quality music (post-Black)? IMO, yes. But they were just trying to stay relevant and survive. Creatively or finanicially, it sometimes succeeds and sometimes fails depending on the band. Even I don't like a band's music and may wish they kept their "old" sound, I can't begrudge someone for wanting to still make popular music beacuse popular = $$$.

I agree with a previous post that stated it they had continued their usual thrash ways, they wouldn't be as big as they are today. Their popularity would've waned, thanks to grunge, alongside all the other thrash bands.

I was making that point. I was saying that if The Black Album was never made, their popularity peak would have been AJFA, although the album afterwards and probably the album after that would have sold very well as well, however.

Anyways, the first four are classics. The Black Album, IMO, was the beginning of the end, but at least it still had some good songs on it (Holier Than Thou, The Struggle Within). And even then, at least with The Black Album...

- They still looked like a metal band
- The music was still metal, not thrash, but they were still very much a metal band
- They put on a great show live
- James Hetfield still sounded like James Hetfield
- The guitar solos were still decent, in fact, a couple of their best solos ever are here

On Load...

- They no longer looked like a metal band
- The music was hardly metal
- They sounded bad live
- James Hetfield's new vocal style would fit more on a country album than a metal album
- The guitar solos are among the worst you'll hear anywhere

The fanbase changed as well, after they became popular. If you went to a show during the Load/Reload days, and was to look through the average fan's album collection, you'd be more likely to find albums by Everclear or Foo Fighters than Death, Kreator, or Testament.

I don't think a single fan from the Kill 'Em All days is a fan of the new Metallica.

Metal Misfit wrote:

Has Metallica sold out? You bet they did. Any band that plays and gets paid for it is selling out. Any band that signs a record deal, sells a t-shirt, puts a CD out for people to buy is selling out. Is there anything wrong with that? No. Everybody wants money, so do I.

In terms of musical direction have they "sold out"? I don't think so. I actually enjoy the Black Album alot. I know that's a sin with most hardcore Metallica fans, but there ya go. It's after that with Load, Reload, and St. Anger where I think the new material was pretty lame. I don't think they sold out though. Made some bad fashion statements (Load)? Yes. Made some less-than-quality music (post-Black)? IMO, yes. But they were just trying to stay relevant and survive. Creatively or finanicially, it sometimes succeeds and sometimes fails depending on the band. Even I don't like a band's music and may wish they kept their "old" sound, I can't begrudge someone for wanting to still make popular music beacuse popular = $$$.

I agree with a previous post that stated it they had continued their usual thrash ways, they wouldn't be as big as they are today. Their popularity would've waned, thanks to grunge, alongside all the other thrash bands.

I second that big time.

Hard to say. I stopped liking them after Garage Days. I have Justice, but it kinda annoys me. Hate everything after that.

ack

AchrisK wrote:

Hard to say. I stopped liking them after Garage Days. I have Justice, but it kinda annoys me. Hate everything after that.

ack

I LOVE Justice, it is my all time favorite Metallica. It is ultra Beefy like a Arbys samich. In some spots they overdubbed the guitar 30 times. Talk about beef. Plus I like the Cliff Burton track on there. Talk about a kick arse album

I guess we will never know will we? The deed is done to bad!

Wargod48

NP: Scelerata - Darkness And Light

I also digged AJFA. "One" is an excellent song with an even better solo by Hammett. But then again, I'm a pretty big Metallica fan.

Even after Metallica sold out, they were never really terrible until St. Anger, imo. I, for one, liked Load. Didn't like Reload that much, but it wasn't terrible either. And Garage, Inc. was pretty awesome. S&M, was good but could've used a better song selection. St. Anger though...it just sucked. I don't see how anyone can like it.

Blackhound wrote:

Even after Metallica sold out, they were never really terrible until St. Anger, imo. I, for one, liked Load. Didn't like Reload that much, but it wasn't terrible either. And Garage, Inc. was pretty awesome. S&M, was good but could've used a better song selection. St. Anger though...it just sucked. I don't see how anyone can like it.

The funniest moment was in the DVD for "Some King Of Monster". They were previewing it to the press. They were acting like they were so into it, and it was so good. Meanwhile I was thinking, even these press guys have to be going, this stinks.

I do like the Black Album, Load, and Re Load. They are a departure from the thrash/speed sound, but I like them. Bands progress, change. Some people just don't feel like doing the same style anymore. If that is truly the reason, which I belive it is, I am cool with it. Does not matter what style (Linkin Park, Disturbed, Korn, Eminem, 50 cent), if you are playing the music you love, you get all the respect in the world from me

Forever A Heath Bar wrote:

Blackhound wrote:

Even after Metallica sold out, they were never really terrible until St. Anger, imo. I, for one, liked Load. Didn't like Reload that much, but it wasn't terrible either. And Garage, Inc. was pretty awesome. S&M, was good but could've used a better song selection. St. Anger though...it just sucked. I don't see how anyone can like it.

The funniest moment was in the DVD for "Some King Of Monster". They were previewing it to the press. They were acting like they were so into it, and it was so good. Meanwhile I was thinking, even these press guys have to be going, this stinks.

I do like the Black Album, Load, and Re Load. They are a departure from the thrash/speed sound, but I like them. Bands progress, change. Some people just don't feel like doing the same style anymore. If that is truly the reason, which I belive it is, I am cool with it. Does not matter what style (Linkin Park, Disturbed, Korn, Eminem, 50 cent), if you are playing the music you love, you get all the respect in the world from me

I agree, but whether they enjoyed doing St. Anger or not, I still think it sucked. And I imagine that they thought it did too. If it weren't for the crappy producer, I think they could've made it way better. Hopefully with the next album, things will get back on track.

Blackhound wrote:

Even after Metallica sold out, they were never really terrible until St. Anger, imo. I, for one, liked Load. Didn't like Reload that much, but it wasn't terrible either. And Garage, Inc. was pretty awesome. S&M, was good but could've used a better song selection. St. Anger though...it just sucked. I don't see how anyone can like it.

I definetly agree.

This is always a hot topic amongst my buddies when we discuss Metallica:

What would Metallica be like today if Cliff never died?

We can all pretty much agree that after '...Justice', Metallica would change their sound and eventually their look and image. Would Cliff gone along with this?

I say no. Cliff and Lars would've butted heads on the direction of the band, with James following Cliff's lead. I think Cliff would have stuck to the harder-edge sound of old, not really caring about what's cool or hip while Lars would look to expand their appeal and follow the trends of the day, aka 'selling-out', eventually leading to someone (probably Cliff) leaving the band altogether and Metallica would stll become the biggest band in the world at the expense of losing touch with their hardcore fanbase. Meanwhile, Cliff would be forever be in their shadow (ala MegaDave), creating better but ultimately 'less-popular' metal.

Of course, the world will never know, but it's always fun to think about "what could have been"

I think you hit the nail on the head there Metalguy.
I havent liked anything since Justice,they are dead to me now.

Forever A Heath Bar wrote:

I LOVE Justice, it is my all time favorite Metallica. It is ultra Beefy like a Arbys samich.

buggie_strikes_back! wrote:

I also digged AJFA. "One" is an excellent song with an even better solo by Hammett. But then again, I'm a pretty big Metallica fan.

AJFA is indeed a great album. Even if you disliked it, there is NO WAY you could say they "sold out" on it. Sellout albums do not include a song such as Dyers Eve.

I'm just barely old enough to remember when Master Of Puppets came out. I remember going to this old shop in St. Louis called "Peaches," and seeing this huge display for the album. It was popular then; but then, metal in general was favored. In fact, that album was probably their slickest, most polished record of the 80's.

I think if the band had not changed gears, they would be about on the level of Megadeth right now, with constant highs and lows, and varying levels of popularity. Right now, Megadeth are poised for a comeback; but just three or four years ago...when I was still working in a music store, we couldn't GIVE their albums away. Those Sanctuary years were HARSH.

Actually, of the Big Four, I think Slayer have aged the most gracefully. Metallica release one turd after another, and garner little more than derision from older fans. Megadeth and Anthrax are never-ending dramas and VH-1 specials. But Slayer, despite having a rather patchy post-80's catalog, still draw them out. Their tours are routinely huge, their albums are high-profile, and it's rare that anyone dismisses their impact. They just don't get the same critical hammering that Metallica routinely garners.


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I loved the Black album. Load and Re-Load were not their best works, but they still had some good tunes.

The pile of dung called St. Agony was the biggest waste of time in my entire life. I've been hearing that they're working on a new album. And to tell the truth, I don't even know if I want to buy it.

There are certain bands that I would buy their new-releases without hearing a single note. Just having faith in their previous efforts were good enough for me.

If Load & Re-Load were recorded by some new band that noone had heard of, they might not have been that bad. The songs overall weren't bad, the music was heavy. It just wasn't Metallica's music that we all know and love. I was a die-hard fan and bought them on their first day of release, hoping that there would be something good about them, no matter what.

"St. Anger" has ruined that faith I had in the Metallica. I haven't totally written them off, but I wouldn't buy ANYTHING from them anymore, without hearing it first. And even then, it would have to be used at a severe discount.