My beef with (some) Christian Metal.

exact33 wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

There should be a law against mixing Metal and right wing conservative christianity .

and maybe perhaps a similar one against metal and the the ultra-liberal godless left?

It confounds me that bands that preach that god is dead/never existed/conservatives are evil are lauded for exercising the freedom to say what they think but when a Christian band says what they believe politically people object? We have been through thread after thread about metal and any attempt to say metal should be only this or that way limits the genre. Let there be an open competition for ideas - an ideal many libs give lip service to but don't practice what they preach.

Well said!

nevermore wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

There should be a law against mixing Metal and right wing conservative christianity .

and maybe perhaps a similar one against metal and the the ultra-liberal godless left?

It confounds me that bands that preach that god is dead/never existed/conservatives are evil are lauded for exercising the freedom to say what they think but when a Christian band says what they believe politically people object? We have been through thread after thread about metal and any attempt to say metal should be only this or that way limits the genre. Let there be an open competition for ideas - an ideal many libs give lip service to but don't practice what they preach.

Well said!

I'd mostly agree. However, in my view, when you bring Christ into it that changes the rules a little. You're no longer simply talking about secular issues, you're claiming to speak for Jesus.
That is not something you should take likely.

Angelcake Adonisus Fox wrote:

nevermore wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

There should be a law against mixing Metal and right wing conservative christianity .

and maybe perhaps a similar one against metal and the the ultra-liberal godless left?

It confounds me that bands that preach that god is dead/never existed/conservatives are evil are lauded for exercising the freedom to say what they think but when a Christian band says what they believe politically people object? We have been through thread after thread about metal and any attempt to say metal should be only this or that way limits the genre. Let there be an open competition for ideas - an ideal many libs give lip service to but don't practice what they preach.

Well said!

I'd mostly agree. However, in my view, when you bring Christ into it that changes the rules a little. You're no longer simply talking about secular issues, you're claiming to speak for Jesus.
That is not something you should take likely.

I honestly dont understand why the rules would be changed? I do not think that being a Christian prohibits one from participating in the political dialogue - whether you are a liberal Christian or conservative Christian. If a band wants to express their view on societal topics - good for them. If I dont like the viewpoint, I wont listen or if I do, I will buy the music.

I agree that if a church agrees to be a non-taxable status that prohibits political expression, then they should not engage in that behavior. If a church forgoes the non-taxable status - that church is not prohibited from expressing its political ideas. In the end - the idea of no politics in religion is a secular idea.

exact33 wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

There should be a law against mixing Metal and right wing conservative christianity .

and maybe perhaps a similar one against metal and the the ultra-liberal godless left?

It confounds me that bands that preach that god is dead/never existed/conservatives are evil are lauded for exercising the freedom to say what they think but when a Christian band says what they believe politically people object? We have been through thread after thread about metal and any attempt to say metal should be only this or that way limits the genre. Let there be an open competition for ideas - an ideal many libs give lip service to but don't practice what they preach.

No no no, everything I agree with should be allowed and is totally Metal!!
You know I wasn`t being very serious with my comment.
If the lyrics of a Christian Metal band is very preachy in a certain political direction, i guess it`s the bands problem because it will only further limit a already small group of people who would think of buying their album in the first place.

What are politics and government? People doing the will of the governed. While I feel that seperating politics from religion is a good idea, I feel the government ends up with a relative morality, where your morality is different then mine, justifying all the wrong things governments end up doing.I would not want to live under Muslim rule that's for sure, and I
can certainly respect (though not agree) someone not wanting to live under a forced Christian life style by the government.Throughout human history, governments, regimes, dynastys all eventually collapse due to corrupt moral choices.

Christian bands with a political agenda is all news to me........

kmorg wrote:

Christian bands with a political agenda is all news to me........

See Tourniquet - Ted K. thinks eating meat is wrong and pushes through their music. Their CD liners are also an advertisement for the terrorist group PETA. They can say what they want and push the vegan agenda all they want, it doesn't mean that I am going to stop eating meat just because I listen to the CD, much like I won't go out and start a local branch of the church of satan just becaused I listened to Mercyful Fate's don't break the oath.


My personal view is that anybody can say anything they want - it's called free speech. Both sides in the US have tried to do their fair share of censorship (christian right and left wingers) and it boils down to they didn't like what someone said so they want it outlawed.

thejokeriv wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Christian bands with a political agenda is all news to me........

See Tourniquet - Ted K. thinks eating meat is wrong and pushes through their music. Their CD liners are also an advertisement for the terrorist group PETA. They can say what they want and push the vegan agenda all they want, it doesn't mean that I am going to stop eating meat just because I listen to the CD, much like I won't go out and start a local branch of the church of satan just becaused I listened to Mercyful Fate's don't break the oath.


My personal view is that anybody can say anything they want - it's called free speech. Both sides in the US have tried to do their fair share of censorship (christian right and left wingers) and it boils down to they didn't like what someone said so they want it outlawed.

Actually, no one in Tourniquet thinks it's wrong to eat meat, and none of us, Ted included, is pushing a vegan agenda. We believe in the humane treatment of animals; we think that Scripture is clear in mandating this. We are supposed to be good stewards of the things God has entrusted us with , and that includes the world we live in and the life on it. As to PETA, calling them a terrorist group is not entirely fair. Like any large group built around an ideology, they attract people form both extremes in terms of that ideology. Obviously, we do not support or condone the illegal actions taken by the more extreme elements within PETA. Frankly, calling our album liners "advertisement"s for PETA is a huge distortion.

With that said, folks should be able to express themselves however they want. Your art will reflect your worldview, which will be informed by your beliefs. A Christian will see things differently - generally speaking - than an atheist, who will see things differently that an nihilist, a Buddhist, a Satanist, and so on.

perspective, context, and insight mean everything.

If done correctly, even the deaf,dumb and blind will cath your drift.

thejokeriv wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Christian bands with a political agenda is all news to me........

See Tourniquet - Ted K. thinks eating meat is wrong and pushes through their music. Their CD liners are also an advertisement for the terrorist group PETA. They can say what they want and push the vegan agenda all they want, it doesn't mean that I am going to stop eating meat just because I listen to the CD, much like I won't go out and start a local branch of the church of satan just becaused I listened to Mercyful Fate's don't break the oath.


My personal view is that anybody can say anything they want - it's called free speech. Both sides in the US have tried to do their fair share of censorship (christian right and left wingers) and it boils down to they didn't like what someone said so they want it outlawed.

A bit harsch there, me thinks. But if that is an example of political agenda in Christian metal, then I have no beef with it, whatsoever.

kmorg wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Christian bands with a political agenda is all news to me........

See Tourniquet - Ted K. thinks eating meat is wrong and pushes through their music. Their CD liners are also an advertisement for the terrorist group PETA. They can say what they want and push the vegan agenda all they want, it doesn't mean that I am going to stop eating meat just because I listen to the CD, much like I won't go out and start a local branch of the church of satan just becaused I listened to Mercyful Fate's don't break the oath.


My personal view is that anybody can say anything they want - it's called free speech. Both sides in the US have tried to do their fair share of censorship (christian right and left wingers) and it boils down to they didn't like what someone said so they want it outlawed.

A bit harsch there, me thinks. But if that is an example of political agenda in Christian metal, then I have no beef with it, whatsoever.

Maybe a bit harsh - but I have no issue with a band signing about whatever they want. That is just my take on Tourniquet and what the CD liner/Lyrics speak. Could care less - the first three Tourniquet albums are great. Ted K is a monster behind the drum kit!!!!! They also do a GREAT cover of The Tempter by Trouble on the Intense Live In The Studio series!!!!!!

Angelcake Adonisus Fox wrote:

I can't listen to bands like Saint or One Bad Pig because the way they handle this material is so obnoxious it brings up memories of hatecore bands.

And I can't listen to Saint because they're just a bit dull.

Smindas wrote:

Angelcake Adonisus Fox wrote:

I can't listen to bands like Saint or One Bad Pig because the way they handle this material is so obnoxious it brings up memories of hatecore bands.

And I can't listen to Saint because they're just a bit dull.

LOL!!!!! Saint released two great albums - Time's End (their best one) and Too Late For Living. Warriors Of The Son is rather dull and the newer stuff bores me to tears. I picked up Hellblade and it was, well, boring. Of course, a lot of folks on HoM think it's a great album, it just bored me to tears.

Yeah, I had to review Hellblade and Crime Scene Earth 2.0 last year and they both left me cold. Admittedly haven't heard any of their earlier stuff, those two albums put me right off.

Quote :

I was a bit irritated so I asked him where the Satan section was because I wanted to buy a King Diamond CD. I also wanted to know where the Hari Krishna section was so that I could buy a Cro-Mags CD. (Obviously being a smart a$$) However, I made my point. It's all just metal.

I don't really care what a Christian band chooses to write about... I'm more turned off when they blatantly steal a secular band's style and sound.


Whitecross / Ratt

Saint / Judas Priest

Troublezone wrote:

I don't really care what a Christian band chooses to write about... I'm more turned off when they blatantly steal a secular band's style and sound.


Whitecross / Ratt

Saint / Judas Priest

Oh you mean like...

Led Zeppelin / Kingdom Come

AC/DC / Rhino Bucket

Judas Priest / Primal Fear

Aerosmith / Guns n Roses

AC/DC / Airbourne

I can remember when magazines back in the 70's were calling Aerosmith a Rolling Stones clone.

etc. etc. etc.

The obvious influence in a band's sound is most certainly not something that is distinct to Christian bands.

Quote :

LOL!!!!! Saint released two great albums - Time's End (their best one)

Sweet, my favorite also. Liking this i'm surprised you don't like Hellblade.

I generally don't have a problem with any of the lyrics, Christian, secular or otherwise that I listen to. I might get a little turned off to a Christian band if the words are overly preachy or cheesy, but I don't get caught up in any bands agenda.

Like someoen else mentioned, listening to a pro-vegetarian song isn't stopping me from eating a burger, nor would listening to a Slayer album inspire me to become a serial killer.

My parents did a fine job teaching me right from wrong. I don't need songs or musicians to tell me.

Well, I guess it does seem to be just me.

That's alright. I'm cool with that. I'll admit that I've always been a bit over-sensitive to Christian bands' lyrics for some strange reason.

Again, it was just my opinion, and I didn't know if anyone else shared it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and what have you.

Guns n Roses are an amalgam of Aerosmith/early Crue/and probably Hanoi Rocks. Not just a rip off of one band. In other words, they have their influences like every other band out there and are no more of a clone.

thejokeriv wrote:

kmorg wrote:

thejokeriv wrote:

kmorg wrote:

Christian bands with a political agenda is all news to me........

See Tourniquet - Ted K. thinks eating meat is wrong and pushes through their music. Their CD liners are also an advertisement for the terrorist group PETA. They can say what they want and push the vegan agenda all they want, it doesn't mean that I am going to stop eating meat just because I listen to the CD, much like I won't go out and start a local branch of the church of satan just becaused I listened to Mercyful Fate's don't break the oath.


My personal view is that anybody can say anything they want - it's called free speech. Both sides in the US have tried to do their fair share of censorship (christian right and left wingers) and it boils down to they didn't like what someone said so they want it outlawed.

A bit harsch there, me thinks. But if that is an example of political agenda in Christian metal, then I have no beef with it, whatsoever.

Maybe a bit harsh - but I have no issue with a band signing about whatever they want. That is just my take on Tourniquet and what the CD liner/Lyrics speak. Could care less - the first three Tourniquet albums are great. Ted K is a monster behind the drum kit!!!!! They also do a GREAT cover of The Tempter by Trouble on the Intense Live In The Studio series!!!!!!

Venom, King Diamond, Slayer, Ted Nugent, and Guns n Roses suck.

And James B is my fav poster [baby-batter!].

And my cat has gas.

Just thought I would throw some truth into the convo.

Angelcake Adonisus Fox wrote:

nevermore wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

There should be a law against mixing Metal and right wing conservative christianity .

and maybe perhaps a similar one against metal and the the ultra-liberal godless left?

It confounds me that bands that preach that god is dead/never existed/conservatives are evil are lauded for exercising the freedom to say what they think but when a Christian band says what they believe politically people object? We have been through thread after thread about metal and any attempt to say metal should be only this or that way limits the genre. Let there be an open competition for ideas - an ideal many libs give lip service to but don't practice what they preach.

Well said!

I'd mostly agree. However, in my view, when you bring Christ into it that changes the rules a little. You're no longer simply talking about secular issues, you're claiming to speak for Jesus.
That is not something you should take likely.

So you have to be serious if you are a christian band claiming to speak for Christ, but bands that follow Satan can joke around about evil stuff and not be held responsible for stupid things they might say or do? That is a ridiculous double standard, not to mention that I dont know any band claiming to speak directly for God, they are just expressing personal beliefs and life experience.

bassman wrote:

Angelcake Adonisus Fox wrote:

nevermore wrote:

exact33 wrote:

Olafsto wrote:

There should be a law against mixing Metal and right wing conservative christianity .

and maybe perhaps a similar one against metal and the the ultra-liberal godless left?

It confounds me that bands that preach that god is dead/never existed/conservatives are evil are lauded for exercising the freedom to say what they think but when a Christian band says what they believe politically people object? We have been through thread after thread about metal and any attempt to say metal should be only this or that way limits the genre. Let there be an open competition for ideas - an ideal many libs give lip service to but don't practice what they preach.

Well said!

I'd mostly agree. However, in my view, when you bring Christ into it that changes the rules a little. You're no longer simply talking about secular issues, you're claiming to speak for Jesus.
That is not something you should take likely.

So you have to be serious if you are a christian band claiming to speak for Christ, but bands that follow Satan can joke around about evil stuff and not be held responsible for stupid things they might say or do? That is a ridiculous double standard, not to mention that I dont know any band claiming to speak directly for God, they are just expressing personal beliefs and life experience.

Only if you think your average 'satanic' band actually believes anything they actually expouse. Or that an actual 'satanic' band actually believes in Satan in the first place.

ultmetal wrote:

Troublezone wrote:

I don't really care what a Christian band chooses to write about... I'm more turned off when they blatantly steal a secular band's style and sound.


Whitecross / Ratt

Saint / Judas Priest

Oh you mean like...

Led Zeppelin / Kingdom Come

AC/DC / Rhino Bucket

Judas Priest / Primal Fear

Aerosmith / Guns n Roses

AC/DC / Airbourne

I can remember when magazines back in the 70's were calling Aerosmith a Rolling Stones clone.

etc. etc. etc.

The obvious influence in a band's sound is most certainly not something that is distinct to Christian bands.

Point taken... but i think that christian metal bands have not tried hard enough to be original besides Vengeance Rising's (blues thrash) and TQT's (medical metal).