about Dimebag Darell

Virtuoso!

Dime would not even make my fav 100 guitarists but theres no denying that Pantera was the defining metal band of the 90's and Dime the top guitar hero of the 90's. He was still carrying on with the guitar hero tradition and being successful in a decade full of minimalistic guitar playing, so for that i respect him.

he certainly kept the heavy muisc alive while grunge ruled the roost thats for sure

I agree with the following two statements for sure. Pantera shaped metal in a way like no other during the 90's.

buggie_strikes_back! wrote:

I agree with the following two statements for sure. Pantera shaped metal in a way like no other during the 90's.

Yeah, shaped it into the shape of poo.

It's probably their fault that hardcore got so big, and polluted the hard music scene, and gave birth to metalcore, which we still haven't recovered from. Not saying they were hardcore, but they were "tough guy" metal, which is closer to HC than most of what else was happening at the time.

ack

na hardcore was down to bands like minor threat and fugazi not pantera. i bet they would be annoyed by that claim and as for the music it aint core at all

Yeah, that's the old school hardcore, but do you think this modern borecore really came from that?

ack

00s metalcore = 90s pantera + at the gates IMHO

Metalcore (also known as hardcore metal) is a fusion genre, mixing elements of metal and hardcore punk.
Defining the metalcore sound is not an easy task. Various bands have fused a hardcore-influenced sound and attitude with many different types of metal.




Contents

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<LI class=toclevel-1>1 Early scene
<LI class=toclevel-1>2 Later scene
<LI class=toclevel-1>3 Breakdowns

• 4 Metalcore genres
  

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[edit] Early scene


Nuclear Assault were the first band to call their style of music a heavy metal/hardcore punk hybrid, though they are still thought of as a metal band by most.
Although they are not labelled as Metalcore, Breakdown were arguably one of the earliest to fuse heavy metal-influenced riffing with a more traditional hardcore sound without being a thrash metal band.
Around the same time, bands such as Damnation A.D., Integrity, Maximum Penalty, Leeway, Biohazard, Madball, Judge, and Raw Deal began releasing demo's and albums, laying the foundation for Metalcore bands to come.
Most of the songwriting by these bands was similar to the New York hardcore genre but differed in a more metallic sound, due largely to the use of double bass drums, harsher distortion, heavier riffs, and metal-influenced vocals.
This basic form of Metalcore has received the epithets, "tough guy hardcore" and "moshcore" due to the lyrical focus - which is often similar to older hardcore by calling for moral and mental strength and integrity, often with a slight focus on violence and the breakdown-centric, mosh-friendly songwriting that some bands use.
During the middle of the 1990s, bands started expanding the Metalcore sound. Prime examples are Liar and Congress in Europe, both a part of the notorious H8000 scene.
The H8000 scene was located in the West-Flanders area in Belgium.
Many other bands followed in their footsteps, bands like Regression, Sektor, Spineless where also responsible for putting the term Metalcore sound on the map.
In the U.S there were All Out War who used straightforward thrash riffing, as well as bands such as Rorschach, Starkweather, Orange County's Adamantium, and Deadguy - who experimented with looser, often discordant songwriting as well as less traditional rhythms. Converge, although starting out as self-confessed "hardcore kids with leftover Slayer riffs", have since bloomed into a hybrid of hardcore, metal and progressive instrumental and electronic experimentation, they like to call "punk metal".
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[edit] Later scene


From the late 1990s,particularly after the turn of the millennium, metalcore has grown immensely, to the point where major record companies are taking interest in the genre. Recent releases, such as Unearth's III: In the Eyes of Fire and Norma Jean's Redeemer have charted moderately high on the Billboard 200.
"Melodic metalcore" has become immensely popular, with bands playing a combination of melodic death metal, popularized by bands such as At the Gates and In Flames, and early metalcore. This results in style that has a definite element of melody (such as harmonized leads in bands with two guitarists) juxtaposed against the brutal rhythms and vocals. Today, many popular metalcore bands play this style, including Bleeding Through, Darkest Hour, As I Lay Dying, All That Remains, From Autumn to Ashes, Zao, and Unearth.
Some bands, such as Botch and Norma Jean, expanded on the blueprints of Rorschach and Deadguy, bringing forth intense, math rock- and noise rock-influenced guitar riffs.
Some groove metal bands, such as Chimaira and Lamb of God, have used metalcore elements in their recent work.
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[edit] Breakdowns



Main article: Break (music)

Central to the bands of the genre, quite a few of which eschew traditional verse-chorus-verse songwriting, is the breakdown.
Stereotypically, a breakdown consists of slowing a song down, usually to half time, giving the guitars room to play a set of rhythmically oriented riffs, usually on open strings so as to achieve the lowest sound for which the guitars are tuned. Breakdowns can also consist of high pitched, often clashing offsets performed by two guitars in the same band: one band member plays the low chug chords while the other plays a higher pitched riff, which is frequently a minor second clash. Breakdown riffs are also typically played on the minor chord of the key, often D Minor due to use of Drop D tuning. These riffs are often accented by the drummer through double bass drums and use of the china cymbal.
Breakdowns are usually responded to by an audience by hardcore dancing. Vocalists also often throw in a single, repeated statement throughout the breakdown, giving those who are not dancing an opportunity to sing along. Many Metalcore bands rely on having memorable breakdowns rather than memorable choruses. Songs with breakdowns have become more common. Some bands have used them far more often than was previously the norm with some songs even resembling one elongated breakdown.
Most influentially, bands from the north-eastern United States have taken this concept and made it their own. Bands such as Boston's On Broken Wings and Bury Your Dead, along with New Jersey's Shattered Realm helped pioneer this method of songwriting, even poking fun at the excessiveness of the idea (ie, On Broken Wings printing "Mosh Hoodies" and Bury Your Dead naming their Victory Records sophomore album Beauty And The Breakdown).




this is what wikipedia says about metalcore and makes no reference to pantera but at the gates and in flames are mentioned.

howver reading the article it gives you the opinion pantera could have some influence

but i dot think they did

AchrisK wrote:

buggie_strikes_back! wrote:

I agree with the following two statements for sure. Pantera shaped metal in a way like no other during the 90's.

Yeah, shaped it into the shape of poo.

It's probably their fault that hardcore got so big, and polluted the hard music scene, and gave birth to metalcore, which we still haven't recovered from. Not saying they were hardcore, but they were "tough guy" metal, which is closer to HC than most of what else was happening at the time.

ack

Although I think they did sort of inspire some of the hardcore movement, they are not entirely responsible one bit. Besides, Pantera has more talent than any hardcore band I know of.

AchrisK wrote:

Yeah, that's the old school hardcore, but do you think this modern borecore really came from that?

ack

Absolutely. What are you considering "modern borecore?"

EDIT: Gooch, clean up that post! Haha. It sucks. And did you copy and paste that from Wikipedia? If so, please delete it. I hate people quoting Wikipedia. It's so inaccurate it's not even funny!

Eyesore wrote:

Absolutely. What are you considering "modern borecore?"

I don't know. I don't know anything. How about Remembering Never.

ack

phils vcals on the later albums might have nfluenced some metalcore but i listened to part of a hatereed album earlier and it sounded nothing like pantera

AchrisK wrote:

Eyesore wrote:

Absolutely. What are you considering "modern borecore?"

I don't know. I don't know anything. How about Remembering Never.

ack

Remembering Never are poo. And I don't think they sound like Pantera.

I am not familiar with much hardcore. I am sure there are good bands, but it seems to me to be generally simpler music than metal, and more of a brutal musical backdrop for a guy screaming opinions.

Ever heard Chasm - Gye Nyame? That is some of the best hardcore I ever heard.

ack

it is not metal riffs (hardcore) for sure. how the two go together is beyond me. pantera are not "core" at all

buggie_strikes_back! wrote:

troublezone wrote:

Name some guitarists you consider technical?

Jeff Loomis, Marty Friedman, John Petrucci, Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen, Joe Satriani, Buckethead, Chris Impellitteri, Micheal Angelo Batio, The Great Kat... that enough?

I agree with Jeff Loomis but some of those players are just fancy string skippers. The last four are fast but boring as hell songwriters.

Quote :

The defining element of virtuosity is the performance ability of the musician in question, who is capable of displaying feats of skill well above the average performer.

According to this definition Dime fits the mold and he was definately not an "average" performer, especially in the mid to late 80's.

Reading all the post on these thread was somewhat of an eye opener, and I had no idea metal/hard rock fans would be so divided about Dimebag Darrell.

IMO Dimebag was an excellent guitartist and even if you don't agree with that statement, during the 90's when it was uncool to play solos or call yourself a metal band, Pantera proudly proclaimed themselves to be a metal band. Also I do think they were a huge influence on modern metal, it also opened the door for heavier bands such as Slipknot for example to sell in the millions, it opened the door commerically for heavier rock. I am not suggesting that Slipknot sound like Pantera, but they did open the door.

Dimebag was a legend before his death, and I do think that when an artist dies that people tend to evaluate their work with rose tinted glasses. That being said he was a legend based on the work he did in Pantera, not DamagePlan, I don't believe that if he would have lived he would have been forgotten for a minute. I donot think Damageplan would have ever have the impact that Pantera did but I think we would have treated him like we do all artist who have been around for awhile, we would have taken it for granted.

Love 'em or hate' em Pantera and Dimebag made their impact on metal, and when everyone else proclaimed themselves to be nu-metal or alternative rock, Pantera proudly flew the flag for American metal.

Quite a variety of opinions on this topic! I had the pleasure of meeting Dime and Vinnie once, they were super-cool, down-to-earth guys.

Dime as guitarist - Dime was definitely a good guitar player, he was a Texas player...he was influenced just as much by cats like SRV and Billy Gibbons as he was by the Eddie Van Halen school. He had an interesting rhythm tone and wrote some cool riffs. Unfortunately he also over-used artificial harmonics and effects to the point where it started to get in the way of his solos instead of adding to them. In fact it's his solo tone in general that I don't like, too shrill and piercing without enough "meat" behind it.

Pantera (in my opinion): The first album I heard was Cowboys From Hell and I definitely liked that one when it came out, lots of memorable songs, a nice groove (with hints of boogie along with the thrash), Phil was still actually singing part of the time, great rhythm section...they were tight. Saw them on that tour with Wrathchild America and it was a great gig.

But, they got worse with each successive album. Every album after C.F.H. had less and less memorable songs on it. Vulgar was "close" to the same quality but it seemed they were trying to sound meaner and meaner just because that was the "hip thing to do" at that particular moment. Phil's vocals started getting more annoying around this point as well.

Far Beyond Driven...and beyond. The decline continued, a few really cool tracks (although marred somewhat by an over-reliance on effects) and alot of filler. This was the last Pantera album I purchased. I heard The Great Southern Trendkill once and decided there was no way I would ever listen to it, so I never picked it up. Phil's vocals had become "Far Beyond Annoying" and the songs just weren't memorable, in one ear and immediately out the other.

The last time I saw them, they were the opening act for the original Black Sabbath reuinion tour. It was a complete disaster. Phil was so wasted he couldn't sing, he could barely stand up and you could tell the band was fighting. They were sloppy, unfocused and altogether awful. When Sabbath hit the stage they made Pantera sound like The Beach Boys in comparison...

Long post I know. Anyway, what happened to Dime was a tragedy, there's no denying that. But in my personal opinion Pantera was a blip on the radar during the early 90's, they burnt out too quickly and ended up being irrelevant before it was all over.

Dime was a good guitarist though not the greatest/god/all becoming/end of all things guitar that all these little kids make him out to be. Pantera had some good memorable songs even though as detuned said phil's voice became more annoying as they went on.

detuned wrote:

But, they got worse with each successive album. Every album after C.F.H. had less and less memorable songs on it. Vulgar was "close" to the same quality but it seemed they were trying to sound meaner and meaner just because that was the "hip thing to do" at that particular moment. Phil's vocals started getting more annoying around this point as well.

That there sums up my feelings on Pantera in a nutshell as well. C.F.H. was a great album, and even some of the earlier "glammy" albums are pretty damn good, but once I got past COWBOYS they became too screamy and abrasive for my tastes. I was like "Sorry fellas, I guess I'm just not angry enough to enjoy this sort of thing"

cfh has some of the most inventive riffing on a metal record ever IMO

An excellent guitarist with a cool beard

my .02 worth...

Regardless of opinion as to what he was or if he was ? Darrell had a natural ability and was at a young age, very far beyond other players in both style and technique. I played in an average club circuit band and when in the DFW area, we caught Pantera alot and even shared the stage at The Bronco Bowl, Savvy's, and Rascals by the river. My first time catching them was in 84' and they were just one of many great local bands. Warlock, Rip Laff, Rigor Mortis, Sweet Savage, Molly Maguires, Pendulum, ect ect. He had won alot of contests localy and regional prior to even then. He wasn't always original but mostly had this creative edge that made him stand out.