The white metal doom connection.

I've always found it strange that so many doom metal bands seems to have spiritual, and even Christian-leaning lyrics, but still there were VERY few Christian doom metal bands. Know what I mean?

Do you think this goes back to Trouble, and their lyrics? Or is it due to the spiritual nature of many a Black Sabbath song?

Both. But more Trouble i think...

kmorg wrote:

I've always found it strange that so many doom metal bands seems to have spiritual, and even Christian-leaning lyrics, but still there were VERY few Christian doom metal bands. Know what I mean?

Other than Paramaecium and maybe Veni Domine, are there other christian doom bands?


As for this question, I think doom metal has alot more depth and emotion, which causes for more inspired lyrics. Christianity (whether pro or against) makes good subject matter.

SpectreFate wrote:

kmorg wrote:

I've always found it strange that so many doom metal bands seems to have spiritual, and even Christian-leaning lyrics, but still there were VERY few Christian doom metal bands. Know what I mean?

Other than Paramaecium and maybe Veni Domine, are there other christian doom bands?

Dalit is a very recent example (great CD!), as well as Place of Skulls. You could *maybe* consider Last Chapter in that realm as well, sort of borderline "Christian band". Other borderliners include Century Sleeper, My Silent Wake, Forsaken (from Malta), and Morphia. There are a couple underground acts doing Funeral Doom like Lamentations and Job (same guy does both), and there's always the classic doom sounds of Troglodyte Dawn. Virgin Black is probably more goth than doom, but that element is present in their music as well.

Trouble and Place of Skulls are my favs.

I don't think Trouble ever considered themselves a Christian band, at least not openly. Many of the lyrics had spiritual themes, but I would consider Trouble more of a neo-hippie band than anything else.

detuned wrote:

I don't think Trouble ever considered themselves a Christian band, at least not openly. Many of the lyrics had spiritual themes, but I would consider Trouble more of a neo-hippie band than anything else.

"The Skull" is more a christian metal album than alot of what is considered "christian metal" these days. But yeah, it wasn't an intended angle of the band. Of course now, who the hell will be able to tell what Kory Clarke is singing about.

Within heavy metal, the subgenres that have seemed to flirt with Christian feelings and views the most lyrically are easily doom & power metal. The reasoning why, if there is a concrete 'reasoning', I'm not sure. But I always found it interesting.

detuned wrote:

I don't think Trouble ever considered themselves a Christian band, at least not openly.

Trouble never liked being considered a "Christian" band. The story goes that a publicist at Metal Blade Records tagged them as a 'white metal' band due to the Biblical references in their lyrics, it was a somewhat misguided attempt to set them apart from the so-called "black metal" bands (i.e. Venom, Mercyful Fate) that were coming out around the same time.

Bruce Franklin (guitarist) is the only committed Christian in the band...and even he says that the first couple of Trouble records pre-date his Christian days.

I know that Trouble isn't really a Christian band but the lyrics on the first few albums still served God unbeknownst.

Fat Freddy wrote:

detuned wrote:

I don't think Trouble ever considered themselves a Christian band, at least not openly.

Trouble never liked being considered a "Christian" band. The story goes that a publicist at Metal Blade Records tagged them as a 'white metal' band due to the Biblical references in their lyrics, it was a somewhat misguided attempt to set them apart from the so-called "black metal" bands (i.e. Venom, Mercyful Fate) that were coming out around the same time.

Bruce Franklin (guitarist) is the only committed Christian in the band...and even he says that the first couple of Trouble records pre-date his Christian days.

I remember the "white metal" was an attempt to have a more diverse fanbase. In other words, I guess they thought being marketed as a Christian metal band would limit their fanbase.

I think the spiritual undertones in classic doom probably came from Sabbath, but actually became somewhat established as a regular occurrence in the genre because of the reinforcement from Trouble.

There is a gothy doom-death metal band called Visionaire in the christian scene a while back. their first release, Mystical Dominion was pretty good, but almost too gothy for me. Their second, Within the Arcanium Halls (or something) went more towards goth, so I didn't like it.

I havent listened to Veni Domine in forever. Another band I need to listen to again...

...The lyrics to The Skull, that's kind of an interesting story. Evidently, Eric Wagner was having some serious drug related & emotional issues during this time. The lyrics to the skull were FULL of questions about life, suicide, faith, etc. Wagner said years ago that he was trying to work through his emotional issues by writing the lyrics to The Skull...searching for help.

However, he also said that there were so many bad memories tied to that album that he was no longer able to listen to it.

....as for where this stuff started, it was definitely Sabbath, whose lyrics were alot more dimensional that people gave them credit for. After Forever of course being a good example of faith-based lyrics of a doom variety.

Fat Freddy wrote:

detuned wrote:

I don't think Trouble ever considered themselves a Christian band, at least not openly.

Trouble never liked being considered a "Christian" band. The story goes that a publicist at Metal Blade Records tagged them as a 'white metal' band due to the Biblical references in their lyrics, it was a somewhat misguided attempt to set them apart from the so-called "black metal" bands (i.e. Venom, Mercyful Fate) that were coming out around the same time.

Bruce Franklin (guitarist) is the only committed Christian in the band...and even he says that the first couple of Trouble records pre-date his Christian days.

Correct - the band was heavily into drugs during the first few albums. Eric Wagner (PLEASE Kiss and make up with the band!) was high of hard drugs when he wrote the lyrics to the skull.

Anyway, great albums!!!

I think Trouble were only a Christian band in the sense that they took their lyrics and subjects from the Bible (and mostly from the Old Testament), but it's not like they preaching or anything (although the lyrics did have a sort of fire and brimstone-quality to them).

Regarding Sabbath though, a lot of people forget to mention that they also had lyrics against organized religion. Under the Sun anyone?

And that is why I find it so interesting. Neither Sabbath or Trouble were Christians, but they wrote those spiritual lyrics that influenced an entire genre to continue much in the same manner. Candlemass is another example of this. At least when Messiah was in the band. Nightfall, Tales of Creation and Ancient Dreams are filled with Biblical based lyrics.

Same with some of the songs on the first Solitude Aeturnus

Dave the Boss wrote:

Regarding Sabbath though, a lot of people forget to mention that they also had lyrics against organized religion. Under the Sun anyone?

True. But "spiritual" and "organized religion" are two completely different things. It's possible to be the former while despising the latter. I should know, that's how I feel.

Trouble wasn't so much "Christian" as "Biblically themed"...which are 2 different things.

David Benson was a christian doom artist that had a big similarity to Black sabbath and oz's vocal sound from the early 90's that not a whole lot of people know about.

As for spiritual lyrics in doom, I wouldnt even classify them as spiritual perse more like what detuned said with neo-hippie kind of vibe, Just psycho babble for the most part.

Psycho babble or not, this is some strong stuff!

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from
you, with all malice, and be kind to one another, tenderhearted forgiving one
another, as God in Christ forgave you" - Ephesians 4:31-32
**printed inside liner notes from The Skull**

The Skull

This is my body
my sacrifice to you
this is my blood
which shall be shed for your sins
i have come to be the light of the world
not to judge but to save all of you

As darkness sets,
the agony begins
one of you will betray me with a kiss of death
pray that you may not enter into temptation
God gives me strength, I`m going to be crucified

A crown of thorns
and disgraced by scourge
I took up my cross
had to carry it to the skull
do not weep for me, but for you
and your children
Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
Why did we turn our backs on him
how could we let it happen
just stood and stared at the man on the cross
the time will come when we must face life alone.

You got to make up your mind
for what you know is right
let`s not be another face in the crowd
we can do it together

Let us pray
for those who crucify - christ have mercy
for fools who follow fools - christ have mercy
for those who walk in darkness - christ have mercy
and for all of you - Christ will come again.

kmorg wrote:

Psycho babble or not, this is some strong stuff!

"Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from
you, with all malice, and be kind to one another, tenderhearted forgiving one
another, as God in Christ forgave you" - Ephesians 4:31-32
**printed inside liner notes from The Skull**

The Skull

This is my body
my sacrifice to you
this is my blood
which shall be shed for your sins
i have come to be the light of the world
not to judge but to save all of you

As darkness sets,
the agony begins
one of you will betray me with a kiss of death
pray that you may not enter into temptation
God gives me strength, I`m going to be crucified

A crown of thorns
and disgraced by scourge
I took up my cross
had to carry it to the skull
do not weep for me, but for you
and your children
Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
Why did we turn our backs on him
how could we let it happen
just stood and stared at the man on the cross
the time will come when we must face life alone.

You got to make up your mind
for what you know is right
let`s not be another face in the crowd
we can do it together

Let us pray
for those who crucify - christ have mercy
for fools who follow fools - christ have mercy
for those who walk in darkness - christ have mercy
and for all of you - Christ will come again.

Actually, yeah I would have to agree, there is a pretty strong message there.

The Skull is my favorite Trouble song off my favorite Trouble album!

SpectreFate wrote:

The Skull is my favorite Trouble song off my favorite Trouble album!

I played that album non-stop for about a year...I had to buy a second copy of the vinyl because I practically wore it out.

My favorite song is "Wickedness of Man"