Savatage vs Cliff Burton era MetallicA

Which one do you prefer I think all of Savatage is better than MetallicA after they lost Cliff Burton. But also I have to say Savatage were just as good or even better than Cliff Burton era MetallicA when they went progressive with Gutter Ballet. Also I think Criss Oliva is the Cliff Burton of lead guitar.

i don't think the two are comparable. both had strengths in different areas.

you're probably right

Yeah, they're very different, especially seeing as you brought up Gutter Ballet. Cliff era Metallica was just balls-out thrash, whereas Savatage were getting more progressive ballad styled stuff.

Its interesting because i think Imao Savatage's Sirens and Metallica's Ride The Lightning which both came out in 1984 were the most important radically changing Metal albums since Judas Priest's Stained Class in 1978. Metal just didn't sound the same after those two releases in 1984.

Not comparable, both both great! Probably my 2 most favorite bands.

Metallica was Cliff Burton, Even though Lars was "the leader". I believe\feel Cliff really ran the show until.....

Cliff was so creative, classically trained. uggh

David

cliff made the early metallic era with his classical training. he broought so much to the table compared to the others (granted they can all play brilliantly)+

i dont have ant savatage records

I agree that both bands are great legends in heavy metal but comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges (to borrow and old cliche).

Someone please tell me how many damn songs Cliff wrote! Haha. This whole notion of Cliff being the metal behind Metallica is absolutely retarded. You ever hear what kind of music Cliff listened to? Yeah, totally metal! Pffft.

Cliff is in heaven playing in a country rapcore gangsta fun band, laughing at you all.

Quote :

i dont have ant savatage records

You'd better get to buyin', wanker.

Have you ever heard them. You could be like Uncle Saxon, and completely miss the genius of this band.

Its like comparing apples to oranges.Both are great in their own right.

Eyesore wrote: You ever hear what kind of music Cliff listened to? Yeah, totally metal! Pffft. Cliff is in heaven playing in a country rapcore gangsta fun band, laughing at you all.


Yeah I believe The Misfits were his favorite band. Not exactly Country Rapcore.

well.. so what did Burton listen to, besides the almighty Misfits?

Cliff was into classical, jazz, country and blues, he wasn't simply this monstrous metalhead responsible for Metallica's style at the time or when the began to evolve. Kill 'Em All has very little contributions from Burton, as does ...And Justice For All, and both killer metal albums, not really different from Ride The Lightning or Master Of Puppets.

I just don't know where this notion came from that Cliff was what held this band together, when it comes to the style of music they played. It's just silly. Knowing what Cliff was into, he probably would have been the first one to evolve and change in his musical style. Saying Metallica wouldn't have recorded the Black album, or wouldn't have done Load, Reload, and St. Anger if he hadn't died is just nonsensical. It's all assumption with no basis in fact.

no argument, i was just curious.

I can't see Cliff being into The Load albums knowing how he was a shredder on the bass and even though he was into some nonmetal music i bet he loved playing metal. Also his contribution is very well known as he was the one who brought the classical influence and melody to the band.

troublezone wrote:

I can't see Cliff being into The Load albums knowing how he was a shredder on the bass and even though he was into some nonmetal music i bet he loved playing metal. Also his contribution is very well known as he was the one who brought the classical influence and melody to the band.

And asked back in 1986, no one would ever have envisioned James, Kirk, and Lars playing what was on Load. People get old, they mellow out. It happens. There is no doubt that the Black album and everything after wouldn't have been the way they were had Cliff lived, simply because that would change the dynamics of the band, but there's no way anyone can say that the music wouldn't have been in the same vein. There are no facts to back any of this up, yet people state it as metal law.

How often do we all read people saying Cliff made Metallica, and had he not died Metallica would not have changed? Happens all the time! For all we know, Cliff could have quit the band after that tour when he died. We don't know. You guys probably know I'm passionate about music, but this one gets me going! Haha. I can accept opinions of others, but in the metal realm this opinion is largely accepted as fact. It drives me mad!

:blah:

Eyesore wrote:

troublezone wrote:

I can't see Cliff being into The Load albums knowing how he was a shredder on the bass and even though he was into some nonmetal music i bet he loved playing metal. Also his contribution is very well known as he was the one who brought the classical influence and melody to the band.

And asked back in 1986, no one would ever have envisioned James, Kirk, and Lars playing what was on Load. People get old, they mellow out. It happens. There is no doubt that the Black album and everything after wouldn't have been the way they were had Cliff lived, simply because that would change the dynamics of the band, but there's no way anyone can say that the music wouldn't have been in the same vein. There are no facts to back any of this up, yet people state it as metal law.

How often do we all read people saying Cliff made Metallica, and had he not died Metallica would not have changed? Happens all the time! For all we know, Cliff could have quit the band after that tour when he died. We don't know. You guys probably know I'm passionate about music, but this one gets me going! Haha. I can accept opinions of others, but in the metal realm this opinion is largely accepted as fact. It drives me mad!

:blah:

All i know is what i feel and i feel Cliff would have kept the band somehow more rooted in actual musicianship which i also feel declined after the Black album.

Cliff probably would have left 'tallica, maybe just after Justice, and joined a jazz fusion band. You know it makes sense.

Old Metallica had a lot less filler than old Savatage did.

I think "Gutter Ballet" is really where they started losing it. I don't like any songs on that album except for the title track.

i fink cliff burtons talent has been exagerrated due to the fact metallica music went downhill after he died

caniplaywithmadness? wrote:

i fink cliff burtons talent has been exagerrated due to the fact metallica music went downhill after he died

Totally agree, as was his influence considering he has very few songwriting credits with Metallica.

Temple of Blood wrote:

caniplaywithmadness? wrote:

i fink cliff burtons talent has been exagerrated due to the fact metallica music went downhill after he died

Totally agree, as was his influence considering he has very few songwriting credits with Metallica.

He was partly responsible for keeping the band sufficiently intoxicated ensuring excellent musical compositions. :idea: